Jump to content
Joe From Cincinnati

The Rising Wave (Dragon Fiction)

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, shosuko said:

They aren't complaining about THIS story - they are expressing their fear about what the next story will be.  Read everything a person says if you want to respond, otherwise you respond to what you *think* they said, not what they actually said. 

I'm sorry, you're point was that I was defending bad fiction, wasn't it? Because that strikes me as someone who didn't read what I said. Maybe you should take you're own advice. I suggest you go back and read exactly what I said, and try to rethink exactly what I mean. Because I can tell you this right now, there has been complaining about every story that has been put out, not just you're pet peeve, the Lion story.

You obviously weren't paying attention to the complaining and moaning of "Love story Hotaru" if you think the Crane story got by without negative reviews.

Edited by RandomJC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Matrim said:

I liked all 3, as have a lot of others. As far as I can tell there is no class action starting amongst fans concerning the lion story.

claiming only lion clan fans truly count is a ridiculous point of view. Very lion though.

You must not have read the thread I did about the Lion clan story.  I liked all three as well but

Edit. 

Just go read the price of war thread and compare it to this one. 

Edited by Devin-the-Poet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I liked all three stories as well.  I think a lot of this is baggage people are taking with them from the old game.  I would caution the FFG story team to not respond to knee jerk responses.  Have the confidence to tell your own story.  Remember the internet is the arena of the vocal minority and not the silent majority :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, if you tasked me with a quest of "Prepare a Dragon Clan for the reboot, making sure to capture the essential feel of the Clan while also making it sustainable for a potentially infinite number of future storylines", I would definitely start meditating upon Kami Togashi. I think that, between all options, the best one is to acknowledge that "Dragon Clan is special because their founding Kami is directing them through visions and offering cryptic advice, making his presence constant and intimate", while also noting that this doesn't force him to be a mastermind of the 1000 years, and that it also doesn't force the 2nd Day of Thunder Prophecy. It also doesn't need the physical presence of the Kami himself.

So an approach where Kami Togashi is:

1. In contact with his clan through visions and cryptic advice

2. Not physically present in the House of Light

3. NOT literally all of the Dragon Clan leaders

Is the best of the all worlds. It preserves the feel of the Dragon Clan as the clan directly guided by the Kami, and without being anchored to a single prophecy, it allows them to be a wildcard in many future stories where Dragon try to do their best based on prophecies they receive. In RPG terms, it would turn Kami Togashi into their quest giver.

Not making his descendants him is a boon, imho, because this allows you to keep them as their own characters with their own personalities, goals and flaws. 

But most importantly, "Dragon Clan receives a vision, Dragon Clan ponders what to do about the vision" places focus on the DRAGON CLAN, not on the single character in it. Togashi is not the whole Dragon Clan, and I'm probably going to be staked for saying this. And he shouldn't. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ser Nakata said:

Of course it would be! There are so many players around here who think they own the setting and keep comparing what FFG does to what AEG did. There were good things in AEG's version of the story, but the lack of consistency bet<een the numerous story teams and story arcs probably hurt the setting a lot.

Now, we have a genuine opportunity to start something new, but with every fiction so far, people around here see the sky falling because :

a) the story is different from what they know, and that's heresy to them.

b) some elements of the story stay the same, and in the AEG version, it lead to bad things, so we're doomed to have the sucky stories repeating

c) some elements are too close, or not close enough, to Japanese stuff, and that's horrible, so we're doomed.


I just wish people would stop complaining every day about every piece of news or new fiction. Even Kempy posts a lot less negativity these days. 

 

On the other hand I guess the happy people mainly stay silent. Internet is for the discontent people at heart.

 

I do not think this is true. A lot of the initial popularity for the game will come from the old L5R player base, who complain a lot on forums but the majority are nice people that welcome new players very well compared to other CCGs and LCGs.

a)the story is different, not really so far the differences have been small enough to be annoying, rather than larger scale differences that might be interesting.

b) I havent seen that complaint but it may be possible, but i feel like it is more of a for shadowing this is what happened last time, once again if they were larger scale changes in the stories shown so far this would become less relevant as past knowledge becomes even less relevant.

C) ugh?

Kempy jsut keeps most of his Negativity on facebook :)

I mean if you are happy and enjoyed the story, you either dont post or you post once saying you enjoyed it. if you didnt you are more likely to discuss the things you didn't like. 

 

Personally - I would have liked some larger scale changes than we have seen so the difference between this universe and the other was more pronounced already other than gender bending. The Dragon seems to have some differences going on there, but I am not really sure as I always found them boring and uninteresting, which hasn't changed. And Hitomi is still a rage filled monster...I wonder why?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, franzvong said:

Basically you are demanding for spoilers, and I would be really surprised if they will give away anything that big during the first few cycles... 

Let's be clear, I'm not demanding anything. I'm a potential customer looking to buy their product. It's entirely at their discretion if they'd like to address my concerns so I can make an informed decision.

 

1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

For the benefit of those among us who aren't intimately familiar with all the old fiction and who wrote them, could you please elaborate?  What differences were made that were so grievous? 

Sure thing. The original story, up to the Day of Thunder, was predominantly done by a guy called John Wick. Post DoT it was taken over by some other guys, notably Richard Wulf. I don't want to give away anything too spoilerific, so it you'd like details I'd be happy to talk via PM. Suffice to say Wulf retconned the entire history of the clan in order to buff up a character called Kokujin (a personal favorite of his he did the character write up for). It was terribly thought out and raised many questions. One of the more glaring was called Hoshi, who went from wholly explained phenomena to- and I quote Wulf- 'Just another mystery of the Dragon Clan'. 

The old Yokuni would not have seen the Daimyo. He'd have been turned away, or received instructions via an intermediate, because isolation is a requirement for him. The old Yokuni wouldn't behave like some prophet (like Ukkiu for example) receiving a vision from somewhere. That wasn't how he worked. As John Wick's original bio says 'He appears as a huge muscular man dressed in Dragon Clan armour, carrying an ancient set of swords. His face is always hidden by a helmet, and his eyes glow yelow behind the slits. He always sticks to the shadows, so you never get a good look at him. No one ever hears him speak; they have a memeory of what he says, but never hear the voice itself. It leaves those in contact with him confused and slightly disturbed. Which, of course, is exactly what Yokuni wants.'
 

If you want more details, PM me. :)

 

1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

The problem isn't comparing; it's limiting yourself to comparing.  I can make a huge list of the differences and similarities between the Lord of the Rings films and books.  This list tells me absolutely nothing about the story as it's being told in the adaptation, and tells even less about whether or not the adaptation is any good.  I have seen films that stayed very close to the books they were based on and ended up as horrible movies.  I've also seen films that strayed quite far from the books and were still entertaining, well-told stories. 

Make no mistake, I'm aware they could go another, wholly new route. The problem here is that L5R is a nostalgia property for me. That's what piques my interest- I'm keen for more of the Dragon Clan I remember. Or at the least, one that doesn't actually annoy me like it was left last time. 

As I see it, FFG has 3 possible paths here they're likely already far down. 1) they've gone with Wick's version, 2) they've gone with Wulf's version or 3) they're doing something that is a mix. I'm only initially interested in 1. Option 3 might draw me in later but I have doubts and option 2 is an immediate walk away. If they go with that, they demonstrate to me they're not the people I want to be paying to tell me stories about Rokugan or my clan. Each to their own of course.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Network57 said:

She's an airbender?

Bloodbender.

 

Ooo, Bloodbender vs. Blood Speakers!

 

Several years ago, a fan of both L5R and The Last Airbender (the show, that is) asked the two main creators of TLA if they were aware of L5R. They said yes, and that while they didn't know a huge amount of its "lore", what they did know they liked a lot.

Ever since then, I've dreamed of an L5R show by the creators of TLA. Take the good parts of TLA (of which there are many), make it more mature in tone and expression, and you might just have a great show.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, WHW said:

As far as I understand, the difference people are asking about between "Wick Dragon" and "Wulf Dragon" is the nature of Kami Togashi

My main complaint is that Wulf retconned his into existence. His idea would be vastly better suited to, say, this FFG version. Retold from the start (and expunging the god awful Kokujin rubbish) it wouldn't be bad. It would tread dangerously close on the heels of Shiba, who basically does that shtick. Alas now, the idea is so odious to me I wouldn't even tolerate it then.

But don't forget Hoshi, the 750 year old half dragon half man son of Togashi and a mortal woman. Who makes absolutely no sense in light of Wulf's 'Togashi was just a kami and had a short lifespan' reton. Whatever change you make to the nature of Togashi, you also make to the nature of Hoshi, who by all rights under Wulf should have been no more exceptional than any other kami offspring.

Anyway, I'll wait and see what they say, if anything, and buy in or not based on that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

I'm just confused why the thread about the dragon fiction is being hijacked to complain about the Lion fiction, when it has its own perfectly good thread for doing so... there's plenty of discussion to be had about Dragon matters to fill this thread anyhow. ;)

Because the Lion aren't just threatening your boarders but your story threads too. ^_^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Mirumoto Kojiro said:

Let's be clear, I'm not demanding anything. I'm a potential customer looking to buy their product. It's entirely at their discretion if they'd like to address my concerns so I can make an informed decision.

To be fair, you're "asking" to be shown story considerations (that likely won't be revealed until well into the product cycle) ahead of time in order to decide whether you'll enjoy where it will eventually go. You're also threatening your patronage based on this info.

So you're "demanding" in a rather manipulative way that, in reality, absolutely won't be addressed (because be real - they're not telling you their future story just in case you aren't interested).

You'll have to join the rest of us in making up your mind with very limited info and zero foresight into the future of the characters.

;)

Edited by Bayushi Tsubaki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, finally recovered from being sick for nearly a week with the flu, which is pretty much the longest I've been down with something without going to the hospital/doctor.  And I get to see a fiction of my favorite clan.  Whoa, life's good.

A few note I took from this:

1.  The Mirumoto's leadership's been changed big, but my Lady Hitomi is still around!  Her characterization here is good; you can feel her anger and defiance while being very controlled.  A splash of harshness to go well with Masashige's soft marshmallow nature.

2.  The fictions are only getting stronger and stronger.  The Crane one sucked (mostly because Hoturo sucks, but that's besides the point), and had a lot of tell, not show.  The Lion was markedly better (though it did have too much Hoturo added in), but the Dragon fiction was easily the best, to me.  Without any action, it really gave us a sense of the urgency and desperation of the situation.  Little things, like wondering what really did happen to the pine of Tall Pine Village?

3.  Seriously, what did happen to that pine?  Anyone got any ideas?

4.  Seesh, are the Dragon the storyteam's new punching bag?  I thought that job was supposed to be tossed between the Phoenix and Crane like a hot potato each season.  But seriously, the Dragon are going through a lot.

5.  Whoo!  Togashi-no-kami's back, (I hope it's really him in that armor, at least), and so is Mitsu!  Let's home we see more of both regularly.

6.  Kobori Sozan, eh?  No idea who that is, or what the name Kobori belongs to.  Is that supposed to be a vassal house, a new family, or a typo of Kitsuki?

Overall, this fiction gave me my Dragon Clan fix.  Carry on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, WHW said:

I don't get why people say it had no action. It had plenty of action! Just not the sword-meets-face kind of action. More of a almost-trampled-a-kid action, time-to-slaugher-a-horse action, and prophetic-seizures action. 

I had a family reunion like that once.:P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, WHW said:

I don't get why people say it had no action. It had plenty of action! Just not the sword-meets-face kind of action. More of a almost-trampled-a-kid action, time-to-slaugher-a-horse action, and prophetic-seizures action. 

You remember the explanation of the Lord of the Rings movies by Randal in Clerks 2?
They were pretty great movies, but he also wasn't wrong. :lol:

That's kinda the same thing going on with this fiction. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, WHW said:

I don't get why people say it had no action. It had plenty of action! Just not the sword-meets-face kind of action. More of a almost-trampled-a-kid action, time-to-slaugher-a-horse action, and prophetic-seizures action. 

Fair point.  The Slaughtering of the horse could have used more blood and screaming, in that case.  Could have also been a great lesson for the child, too!
"Okay, possible-peasant-turned-samurai, today, you get to spill some real blood!  Just hold the sword, and bring it down without hesitation!   Do it with doubt, and you'll just put the animal in more pain.  Oh, don't want to do it?  You should have thought of that before playing in the road.  Haha, Kids today, not down with a little horse-murder."

9 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

I had a family reunion like that once.:P

I was worried those weren't the norm...now I'm getting jealous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, agarrett said:

  Did anyone else notice that Masashige called Hitomi Hitomi-kun? 

  Is that supposed to be a joke about the old card looking like a man? In Japanese, the suffix for a woman should be -chan, where -kun is for men.

I noticed. Maybe she is a bit of a tomboy.

 Also, she is said to be Masashige´s hatamoto. In O5R she was the daimyo´  s daughter and Gaijutsu´  s granddaughter. Not sure she is either in this setting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

It did have alot of bald people though.  Everybody loves bald people:)

But did they have crabs on their heads?  Nope!

Also, bamboo Tattoo = Best tattoo.  Followed by maybe Lion and Crane.    I am disappointed by their lack of good tattoos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...