Jump to content
Iylankano

Nobody else noticed the new FAQ yet.....

Recommended Posts

50 minutes ago, Joe Censored said:

I think with suicide hammerheads on the way, the Rieekan fix was a must have. 

Agreed.  It seems like it is the right time for Rhymer (w/Sloane) and Rieekan (w/Hammerheads) with Wave VI just around the corner and the state of the meta.  Thankfully, I am just now going to attempt a few tournaments this summer - so, thanks, FFG, for such perfect timing!

Edited by puntspeedchunk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ryanabt said:

Does the "once per round" for rieekan mean that you can keep a ship alive once per round or that a ship can be kept alive once per round but if it is destroyed "again" that it is gone?

To be a bit clearer, if, for instance, two ships are destroyed in the same round, you can only apply the effect to one ship. For example, a Liberty and a GR-75 are both destroyed. You can keep the Liberty and use it or remove the GR-75 and vice versa. But if the Liberty has already attacked and then destroyed, it can still be used to ram other ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Valca said:

30 should be sufficient, right? ;)

OK, 35 is enough for "average fleet size" decreasing by half a ship, but we need about 5 tournaments to detect the same change in "top 4 fleets."

I expect we'll see that when we get results through the July 15th & 16th store championships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am happy about the floatilla nerf. But I don't expect to see the hammerheads used as ships either. A ship cost of 36 points can be used to skirt the outside of the battlefield. I dont think the lifeboats will go away, just transferred to another ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Harrs_Canter said:

I am happy about the floatilla nerf. But I don't expect to see the hammerheads used as ships either. A ship cost of 36 points can be used to skirt the outside of the battlefield. I dont think the lifeboats will go away, just transferred to another ship.

A Finalist in the World Champs game did use a Cr90B as a lifeboat way back in wave 1.

Its just nowhere near as cheap as the flotilla made it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

A Finalist in the World Champs game did use a Cr90B as a lifeboat way back in wave 1.

Its just nowhere near as cheap as the flotilla made it.

Yes, but now the hammerhead is 3 points cheaper than a CR-90B which allows points to go to another ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Harrs_Canter said:

Yes, but now the hammerhead is 3 points cheaper than a CR-90B which allows points to go to another ship.

The Point is the Points...

 

Now its 3 points vs Wave 1 "original" lifeboat.

Vs, y'know.  21 points.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, PT106 said:

It would be foolish not to pay extra 3 points to upgrade ship speed to 4 on the lifeboat.

I agree although I get the sense that people are trying to cram lifeboats into the game. CR90 lifeboats were a thing in wave 2 but not exactly safe. I think people are just to used to thinking they need a lifeboat...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

I agree although I get the sense that people are trying to cram lifeboats into the game. CR90 lifeboats were a thing in wave 2 but not exactly safe. I think people are just to used to thinking they need a lifeboat...

Not so much as needed a Lifeboat, more it allows you to be far more aggressive with your damage dealing ships, and keep the full benefit of your Admiral of choice.

And Snipa I've had Screed and Vader on the Raider Max ride, they both assure me they loved every minute of it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just getting to a computer for this now.  A few comments based on what I've read here and what I've seen on the board over the past 6 months.

 

1.  Rieekan:  The biggest way that this opens up a counter is in the department of ships.  I've played builds that have been able to drop more than one ship in a turn.  A GH/Rieekan list is still going to keep you down to one ace squad per turn, but the hard choice you want to force is between ships and squads.  There are several variants here.  The GH/Aceholes variety tends to take lighter anti-ship squadrons, which leaves time to counter it with lighter squads that can annoy, but not win the squad battle, while you win the ship battle.  The Pelta/Aces variant has heavier anti-ship squadrons, but without the umbrella of GH, they are much more susceptible to heavy anti-squadron builds, and even before wave 6 and the Errata got here, I'd already seen them leveled by strong anti-squadron play.  With the arrival of Sloan and the Errata, these lists stand to be much weaker.   A Rieekan MSU such as the Ramstrocity becomes much more prone to Large base Gunnery Team units dropping two activations on the same turn.  So while there isn't a direct nerf to the ram mechanic itself, I think you will start seeing overall damage decrease by 5-7 points.  And that might come at points where that damage snowballs into more losses and mediocre results.   Now, one build that I don't think gets enough airplay, but which is still very strong, is the Rieekan Pickle, SW-7/CR90B build that I used in wave-2.  The core principle of that list has not ceased to be viable through the present waves, but at its core, it is unusual for that build to lose more than one ship per turn.  So what I think will work is a rammer or two in a list that is flown to limit ship losses to once per turn.

2.  Lifeboat flotillas:  Overall, I wasn't too bothered by it.  I lifeboated very little, and the one regional where I did so resulted in a lost commander in a game with @CaribbeanNinja.  It will affect some specific builds, in particular, squadron-centric builds.  And if you're talking about being able to kill the main assault ships, the loss of a 20-30 point commander can start swinging overall game outcomes.   Some of the MSU builds might have to rearrange themselves.  I don't think the MC30 builds are going to want to go squadronless, and they'll definitely want a CR90 as the new lifeboat.  So that means a pretty dramatic shift in those builds if they want to remain competitive.  If the implication in the Developer's post is that they might consider more changes, my thought is that this small subtle change will force activation counts down slightly.  This might only show up statistically at something like 0.3 activations.  You're either going to need a firmer platform for your commander (which costs more points and therefore fewer activations), or you're going to need a sturdier lifeboat, which costs minimally twice a flotilla.

3.  TRC:  I am really good with this change here.  I hadn't gotten wind of it ahead of time, but I'm still definitely taking TRC CR90s.  They didn't suddenly become bad because of the change.  The change means that the damage isn't automatic.  But let's think about 4 red dice across two different arcs.  Statistcally, you've got a 3/8 chance of a blank or accuracy.  If you don't want the accuracy, those are the most automatic TRC candidates.  It gets trickier when you get a hit and a crit on those two dice and they are your first attack.  You lose one damage there.  That's still some very good red dice damage.  The development article mentions Scout TRCS, but outside of GT Ackbar Scouts, I've found that in contrast with the CR90, they want to Nav on approach in order to set up their black dice shots, and sometimes you just get the one shot.  Other than some build gymnatistics, most other ships are unaffected by this.  Good change, and I approve.  It might also open up more builds with DTT, which is as solid as cards get.

4.  Rhymer:  Using him well is going to take much more work.  I hadn't seen too many Rhymer balls, mainly because Rieekan Aceholes could shut them down so decisively.  The main fall-out of the shift here will be to force more creativity in the composition of Imperial Squadron forces.  And there are plenty of us that already thought in the flotilla meta that his buddy Jonus was where it was at.

5.  Demolisher:  I was less concerned with Demolisher, because I think flotillas and Rieekan aces made it hard to keep it alive.  With changes to Rieekan, I'm happy that there was also a change to Demo.  I think we'll see more creativity in how Demolisher gets kitted, deployed, and flown, but we'll still see plenty of Demo.

The biggest adjustment in all of this is to open up more possibilities in list building.  From wave 2 onward, you had to figure out a counter to Rhymer, Demolisher, Rieekan Aces, and TRC90s.  Although we should still see all of them, those counters are a little easier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Can I have some stickers though? This is gonna be a pain in the **** for a while

The FAQ has updated card pics, so if you have access to a good color laser you can print these on label paper and go nutz.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

Ironic....the commander intended to keep ships from dying has failed to keep himself from dying....

Really though, that price for ONE per round? Might as well only work on ships because nobody is going to risk keeping a unique fighter alive 95% of the time.

Ouch.....

Sure they will. Rieekan was more important to unique squads than to ships, and most skilled Rieekan players keep their ships out of harms way in carrier fleets, risking them as needed, especially with Relay. I thought for sure they would simply remove the ability to zombie unique squads, but this will work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Big fan of all of these changes except the Rhymer nerf. Even as a Rebel player it seems needlessly harsh?

 

Note: I'm not good at foresight, so maybe the horror of an Admiral Sloane/Major Rhymer marriage hasn't hit me yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Overall I like the changes and think they will help list diversity. The one side effect of the Rhymer change that really bothers me is the probable return of the massive squadron clusters, something the game was recently moving away from with Relay/Rhymer/Snipe in many/most builds. Almost all of the recent matches I've had with large squadron battles has had squads scattered all over the map, unlike the painful squad clusters before wave 5. Last thing this game needs is more clustering. Bleh! :(

The change to Rhymer is the most impacting on play biggest and I'm unsure why folks don't see this as a huge change. Close range is only a little further than range 1, but most importantly is the loss of the ship anti-squadron bubble when using Rhymer. Rhymer forced the opponent to move their squadrons out, often pushing them into enemy ship anti-squad fire and leaving the protective bubble of their own anti-squad firing range. This is HUGE! Game changing on the epic level. Almost every game I've been in with Rhymer has come down to a cat and mouse game of who would fire first with their squads and how to deal with Rhymer at medium range.  Rhymer is useful now but no where near the force he once was. A good change indeed, except for the clustering issue. :/

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm fine with the flotilla change..mainly cause I never used a lifeboat. I'm just surprised they felt it needed changing. The kind of ruling I would expect here would be that one lots of people have suggested, that they don't count as ships for tabling. 

What was the OP problem with lifeboats that they needed to be stopped? People can still park a flotilla off in the corner as activation advantage and ship tabling insurance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone else noticed the change to Veteran Gunners? Pg. 14, "While a ship equipped with this card is attacking, it can spend ACC icons before resolving this effect. Those dice are removed from the attack pool and not rerolled."

And can someone explain the errata on Intel Officer? "A ship with this card equipped can choose 1 of its own defense tokens when resolving this card." Uh, what? Why would I do that? What effect would it have?
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Thraug said:

Overall I like the changes and think they will help list diversity. The one side effect of the Rhymer change that really bothers me is the probable return of the massive squadron clusters, something the game was recently moving away from with Relay/Rhymer/Snipe in many/most builds. Almost all of the recent matches I've had with large squadron battles has had squads scattered all over the map, unlike the painful squad clusters before wave 5. Last thing this game needs is more clustering. Bleh! :(

The change to Rhymer is the most impacting on play biggest and I'm unsure why folks don't see this as a huge change. Close range is only a little further than range 1, but most importantly is the loss of the ship anti-squadron bubble when using Rhymer. Rhymer forced the opponent to move their squadrons out, often pushing them into enemy ship anti-squad fire and leaving the protective bubble of their own anti-squad firing range. This is HUGE! Game changing on the epic level. Almost every game I've been in with Rhymer has come down to a cat and mouse game of who would fire first with their squads and how to deal with Rhymer at medium range.  Rhymer is useful now but no where near the force he once was. A good change indeed, except for the clustering issue. :/

 

Seriously!? The biggest argument for VSD Is over VSD IIs was that medium range was just too little difference from short range for the points. 

The good Major will still get in some quality flight time. He will just get to take some much needed R&R after working so many back to back missions for the glory of the Empire!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Brian Downes said:

Has anyone else noticed the change to Veteran Gunners? Pg. 14, "While a ship equipped with this card is attacking, it can spend ACC icons before resolving this effect. Those dice are removed from the attack pool and not rerolled."

And can someone explain the errata on Intel Officer? "A ship with this card equipped can choose 1 of its own defense tokens when resolving this card." Uh, what? Why would I do that? What effect would it have?
 

Fyi, new changes are in red, so neither of those is new.

The VG ruling is not a change but a clarification. The timing for spending accuracies is the same as that for resolving VG, and involves removing the acc from the dice pool. The effect of this is that accs can be saved through a VG reroll, but must be designated before seeing the results of the reroll.

The use case for friendly-fire IO is a corner case: Darth Vader admiral with Devastator and IO can IO his own defense token to burn them off for Devastator dice.

Edited by Ardaedhel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...