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RufusDaMan

FFG is out of touch with their own game...

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As a result, a Scurrg H-6 outfitted with a Bomblet Generator may be seen as a larger threat than its attack value of "3" might otherwise suggest, and your opponent may prioritize the ship's destruction from the beginning of the match.

 

This is from the Cry Havoc article, and it really showcases what is really wrong with the game. An attack value of 3 is not considered a large threat in itself. Just something to think about

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I don't understand. Yes, 3 dice (without mods) aren't that big of a threat. It's true because power creep, and FFG said so in that article, and it might or might not be good (which is an entirely different discussion).

But how does it go towards showing that FFG is out of touch with X-Wing - if they said something that you agree with about the current state of the game?

Edited by haslo

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Okay, maybe I haven't exactly explained my view...

 

 

The TIE Interceptor and the X-Wing have attack value of 3. These are supposed to be a threat because of their firepower. And yet, this is referred to as a somewhat meager offense

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8 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

Okay, maybe I haven't exactly explained my view...

 

 

The TIE Interceptor and the X-Wing have attack value of 3. These are supposed to be a threat because of their firepower. And yet, this is referred to as a somewhat meager offense

Are they "supposed" to be a threat just because they have an attack value of 3?  Or because they have alternatives ways of repositioning, generating copious evades, generating rerolls and/or somesuch?

I mean, I'm seriously asking - I don't Play X-Wing, so sometimes its hard to understand what's going on.

 

I mean, to my Eye, it wasn't just the TIE Interceptors attack value of 3 that made it a threat - it was also the fact that it was fast and slipperty enough to get just about anywhere it wanted before it used its dice to best effect.

Edited by Drasnighta

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You are comparing literally the first ship (Xwing) to the most recently released ship (scurrg) in a game that has been running for what 5 years now? i forget when xwing started.

They'd have to be gods at balancing to somehow keep the xwing's attack power actually respectable after adding so much stuff to the game and never retro-making anything (as in, literally rereleasing a ship not just what we get in the Aces boxes)

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4 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

You are comparing literally the first ship (Xwing) to the most recently released ship (scurrg) in a game that has been running for what 5 years now? i forget when xwing started.

They'd have to be gods at balancing to somehow keep the xwing's attack power actually respectable after adding so much stuff to the game and never retro-making anything (as in, literally rereleasing a ship not just what we get in the Aces boxes)

 

MATH.jpg

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3 dice with no mods has always been poor, and it's also always been a factor to consider This is saying bomblet might draw more aggro than normal because of its unlimited ability to AoE attack - but Bomblet is unique. It paints a bigger target on the H-6 then just another 3 ATK ship. 

If you don't have a plan for 3 ATK ships period you're probably in a bad way in XWM. 

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I wouldn't say 3 attack dice is poor. It's strictly average.

And as far as bombers go, 3 dice is pretty good. Most bomber type ships are 2. And even some base fighters are 2. So it having 3 is decent.

That said, any time you dump a good chunk of points into an agility 1 ship it's going to be a target. Giving it unlimited bombs just means it worth more points.

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One thing I noticed is that FFG seems to make an effort to make games end quicker by making everything hit stronger. It's a big deal since back then games could end way longer than the standard 60/75 mins the moment one side of the table brings a non-efficient list by tournament standards. It's not satisfying to end the game without lots of casualties either.

Also, it kinda mimics real life air combat in the sense that the moment you make bad mistakes during engagement, ships get destroyed so I don't really mind tbh. The downside of this is of course 2 dice primary ships are being slowly creeped out, and only those with solid roles could stay in the top table (e.g. Tie Crackswarm/ Snapcrack greens/ Salvo Zs/ Mindlink Swarms). But they are slowly laying down fixes bit by bit so I'm sure everything will be addressed eventually. 

And before you mention the HWK, it's not a 1 Dice ship ok? the base cost subsidises turrets already so factor that in. It's a meta ship, whether you admit it or not :rolleyes:

Edited by Grivoire

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18 minutes ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

Further to the HWK, FFG has already admitted that the 1 dice primary was a mistake.

I am aware of this and agree, but again thankfully their base costs of 16 pts makes up for it as a solid turret carrier. And the named pilots have decent abilities that surprisingly stays strong in today's meta.

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8 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:

An attack value of 3 is not considered a large threat in itself.

Article says Bomblet Generator + Attack 3 is a larger threat than Attack 3 alone.  It does not state Attack 3 is not a large threat or infer that it is a "meager offense".

3 hours ago, Grivoire said:

FFG seems to make an effort to make games end quicker

They've added loads of Conditions and Titles with a plethora of additional effects and rules which make games slower... maybe they balance out?!

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3 dice is by itself not scary. But three dice with at least one token is good enough that you shouldn't just ignore it. Even the article isn't claiming that 3 dice is terrifying - just that the bomblets make it more dangerous.

 

And anyway, the Scurrg is perfectly capable of generating 3 dice with both focus and rerolls - it has both a system slot and a crew slot*, so generating "free" target locks is incredibly easy!

 

* note to people wanting reasons to rag on scum: Rebel heavy bomber gets a turret and a crew slot. Imperial heavy bomber gets a systems slot and a repositioning action that doesn't prevent it attacking. Scum heavy bomber gets.....all four. Plus a PS3 generic with an elite talent and a tenth hit point compared to the nine of the other two.

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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4 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

 

* note to people wanting reasons to rag on scum: Rebel heavy bomber gets a turret and a crew slot. Imperial heavy bomber gets a systems slot and a repositioning action that doesn't prevent it attacking. Scum heavy bomber gets.....all four. Plus a PS3 generic with an elite talent and a tenth hit point compared to the nine of the other two.

 

It's really hard not to stay salty like that

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16 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

 

And anyway, the Scurrg is perfectly capable of generating 3 dice with both focus and rerolls - it has both a system slot and a crew slot*, so generating "free" target locks is incredibly easy!

 

* note to people wanting reasons to rag on scum: Rebel heavy bomber gets a turret and a crew slot. Imperial heavy bomber gets a systems slot and a repositioning action that doesn't prevent it attacking. Scum heavy bomber gets.....all four. Plus a PS3 generic with an elite talent and a tenth hit point compared to the nine of the other two.

Havoc title balances it nicely 'cause you can't have both crew and system at the same time. IMO one of the best designed titles in the game.

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9 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:

This is from the Cry Havoc article, and it really showcases what is really wrong with the game. An attack value of 3 is not considered a large threat in itself. Just something to think about

I know people have already argued this point but let's try settle this by running the numbers:

3 tokenless red dice against 3 tokenless green dice - average damage is 0.67

3 token less red against 2 token less green - average damage 0.89

3 tokenless red against 1 tokenless green - average damage 1.17

ok so as we see here, naked dice are almost complete garbage, only doing about one damage to single green die ships assuming they are both naked. In this way FFG is right, 3 attack die aren't great on their own.

3 focus red dice against 3 tokenless green dice - average damage is 1.21

3 focus less red against 2 token less green - average damage 1.5

3 focus red against 1 tokenless green - average damage 1.88

now we see where the OP got his idea, yes if the defender used token to attack the damage becomes much more consistent and can penetrate even three evade dice. FFG likely knows this too however they may assume that the Skurrg's actions are being spent on bomb-dropping, ordnance or other shanagins.

Also, who here considers one damage to be a bad result when they left their die naked? Most likely not many people so there again we see the red die being not all that capable even with a focus.

3 focus + TL red dice against 3 tokenless green dice - average damage is 1.7

3 token less red against 2 token less green - average damage 2.06

3 tokenless red against 1 tokenless green - average damage 2.43

Now the defender is struggling, the likes of Biggs and others are really taking some damage here. However focus and TL are hard to generate on the same turn and two damage isn't great against something like the Falcon (not to say it's not worthwhile, it's still a good outcome)

i am not defending FFG's poor choice of wording, just giving some opinions and facts about the dice and statistics. And these dice become even less effective when the defender has a token. 

If you have played XWM for any stretch of tim you likely know that the ships that can dish out high damage are those that can strip the defender of a token or have some sort of ability to boost them on the curve or better yet some kind of ordnance. Three die attacks aren't great and to really utilise them they need some setup however just because FFG doesn't value them as highly as some community members doesn't mean they've lost touch with their game (there are far better reasons for that argument :P

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Arthur_McGuire said:

Havoc title balances it nicely 'cause you can't have both crew and system at the same time. IMO one of the best designed titles in the game.

Rebels also can use it to gain access to the scum astromech (salvaged astromech) slot don't they? Even if it's in a limited capacity. I'll be interested to see if anyone can fully utilise that - _ -

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16 minutes ago, Arthur_McGuire said:

Havoc title balances it nicely 'cause you can't have both crew and system at the same time. IMO one of the best designed titles in the game.

Indeed. That, I'll definitely give you - it's nice to see a title actually make you make hard choices. Apologies, I forgot the system was tied up to the title - I was thinking at the time of typing that it was only the astromech slot you were buying.

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