Imperial All-Ship, Mostly, List Idea

[TheBigLev 222]

To preface, this is my first post on the forums! I have been lurking for years though, so I am familiar with how squadronless lists are generally regarded as less viable or at least not competitive for the most part.

 

Since I have never played in any event that's not a big deal to me. I do however enjoy learning about the meta and tournament play.

 

I put this list together for a fun project to see if I could build a list that has no squadrons and yet may have enough punch to both bog enemy snubfighters down and smash their capitals.

 

I am just curious how the experienced players here would view this list, especially in terms of how the ship to ship firepower might fare. The one odd choice I put in is the tactical expert, but I figured it might be nice to just decide between Nav and Eng, switching to CF when opportunity arises for a good shooting round.

 

Ozzel's Heavy Task Force (398/400)
=================================
Imperial II-class Star Destroyer (120 + 47)
    + Admiral Ozzel (20)
    + Tactical Expert (6)
    + Gunnery Team (7)
    + Reinforced Blast Doors (5)
    + Leading Shots (4)
    + XX-9 Turbolasers (5)
Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 + 5)
    + Dual Turbolaser Turrets (5)
Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 + 5)
    + Dual Turbolaser Turrets (5)
Raider I-class Corvette (44 + 14)
    + Agent Kallus (3)
    + Ordnance Experts (4)
    + Flechette Torpedoes (3)
    + Impetuous (4)
Raider I-class Corvette (44 + 11)
    + Ordnance Experts (4)
    + Flechette Torpedoes (3)
    + Instigator (4)

Edited June 16, 2017 by TheBigLev
Evolving Discussion heh

[Frimmel 2,593]

I would drop the XX-9 and RBD for ECM and either XI7 or H-9s. You'll have to go with a cheaper officer. But I think not having your brace constantly bypassed by having ECM is better in the long run than the RBDs. And you need to also be able to mitigate enemy defense tokens. 

[TheBigLev 222]

I originally had an Intel Officer and ECM on the ISD, and also had a variant with H9. Found the points started to get tighter; do you think the bigger punch on the ISD might be worth dropping a title from the Raiders, and if so which? Or both?

[Frimmel 2,593]

I've never played this sort of list. I just know I ran dual ISDs/dual flotilla and wished I'd brought fighters and ECM.

As your Raiders seem to be the anit-squad portion I'd think Impetuous more "droppable." I think you need Instigator for this list. The thing I think is really droppable is Tactical Expert. Obviously you don't want the wrong command but not having a CF is a "less wrong" choice especially with already having re-rolls via Leading Shots. You're also already picking from only three commands having no squads. 

You can go ECM, H9, and Skilled First Officer and still keep the ISD at 147. I certainly like Intel Officer over Tactical Expert. 

You could go Intel/ECM dropping XX-9 and add Turbolaser Reroute Circuits to the Kittens. 

[TheBigLev 222]

My thoughts on why I'd slot the Tactical Expert in also had to do with the notion of being able to add some additional anti-squad firepower to the ISD if I was surprised or needed an extra punch. I also thought that perhaps, if I were to fly well and be able to concentrate fire on a single enemy ship at once, that the Arqs could either punch through some damage while they wait for the ISD to use defense tokens, or make them blow some tokens before the ISD gets to throw its dice. I don't know if that is really viable or if they would still be able to deflect enough damage with their tokens (I was banking on the Leading Shots to ensure an accuracy or two, though relying on chance is pretty risky).

In reality I would probably massage the list and take a small screen of TIE Fighters or a couple sticky aces. I could probably drop an entire Raider for some squadrons, though I always get the feeling that without a dedicated squadron command pusher (VSD, or soon Quasar) or a couple flotillas they may not do the job.

Ultimately I find I just want to play the game at 500+ points; really well rounded lists I want to make always seem to end up around 450 at a minimum, and usually higher hehe. Which is entirely doable at home or in CC, but I still want to keep my lists at 400 in case I ever do get out to a store event or something.

[Frimmel 2,593]

If you just want to tie up enemy squads you don't need a dedicated squad pusher to throw in some Interceptors. 

[Darth Sanguis 6,327]

As someone who plays squadronless often, I can tell ya, those raiders are gonna get eaten alive if they brought bombers... the lack of redirects is a silent noose for an antisquadron ship. 


Other than that I would have to say I agree with frimmel about the ECMs and X-I7s.


I run a dual Isd Dual Gozanti fleet, that does quite well considering the lack of squads, the only concern I'd say I have with your fleet is a lack of power. One ISD II (kinda) decked to punch is nice but otherwise you're shooting peas. For a list dependent on power, long range reds may not be the way to go. Maybe look into switching those kittens for a demolisher plus a gozanti (or two) with either repair crews or comms net for that ISD (keeps it alive much longer when you can repair 3 shields or 2 hull a turn (or both). Just some thoughts.

[TheBigLev 222]

9 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

If you just want to tie up enemy squads you don't need a dedicated squad pusher to throw in some Interceptors. 

Are the squishy basic TIEs like those really enough to last? I would imagine they just evaporate to a dedicated squadron list or somebody who throws a few AA dice at them.

[Darth Sanguis 6,327]

2 minutes ago, TheBigLev said:

Are the squishy basic TIEs like those really enough to last? I would imagine they just evaporate to a dedicated squadron list or somebody who throws a few AA dice at them.

I run 5 standard ties with my regular list they do well enough, if you're careful with 'em, they can tie up a good chunk of fighters for a few turns, especially with a gozanti running jamming field pushing them. 

[TheBigLev 222]

3 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I run 5 standard ties with my regular list they do well enough, if you're careful with 'em, they can tie up a good chunk of fighters for a few turns, especially with a gozanti running jamming field pushing them. 

How do you feel about running them without much squad command oversight? Or do you still try to keep them actively commanded?

 

Edit: Derp... The Gozanti lol.

Edited June 16, 2017 by TheBigLev

[Darth Sanguis 6,327]

7 minutes ago, TheBigLev said:

How do you feel about running them without much squad command oversight? Or do you still try to keep them actively commanded?

It's likely they'll die faster like that, standard ties can be pretty useful, but without a command or the support of a goz, they're chum. You DO have two AA raiders there, and they could be supplemented with those ties... every turn they shoot at the ties is a turn they didn't shoot the raiders, and the other way around... if you're not pushing them, I'd definitely run something with counter. for 31 points  more you can run howlrunner, scoontir, cena, and dengar which all have evades, and some get can get a pretty decent counter value (up to 4 blue dice?) can be a bit to chew through with a raider running AA

Edited June 16, 2017 by Darth Sanguis

[TheBigLev 222]

1 minute ago, Darth Sanguis said:

It's likely they'll die faster like that, standard ties can be pretty useful, but without a command or the support of a goz, they're chum. You DO have two AA raiders there, and they could be supplemented with those ties... every turn they shoot at the ties is a turn they didn't shoot the raiders, and the other way around... if you're not pushing them, I'd definitely run something with counter. for roughly the same points you can run howlrunner, scoontir, cena, and dengar which all have evades, and some get can get a pretty decent counter value (up to 4 blue dice?) can be a bit to chew through with a raider running AA

That is dirty, I love it haha! I suppose an important element is the round limit and the time frame within which you can effectively engage. I conceptually want to design fleets that would win a protracted battle to the death or some other point, but the reality is often that you can use those squads as a roadbump in order to get you enough advantage in the short term. I am going to re-jig the list a bit and see what I come up with; I will post the results here ASAP... Maybe I will have learned something haha!

[TheBigLev 222]

Alrighty, Version 2.0 of the list concept. Pretty changed, but I wasn't sold on Arqs. I just wanted a facsimile for the TRC90 type of filler ship to which the Rebels have access. This seems to be entirely more powerful and deadly, at least at my first glance/estimate. With Screed I no longer felt the need for Ordnance Experts on the Raider, and instead moved the points to Montferrat on the Demolisher.

Edit: Oh, and I somewhat arbitrarily picked the objectives. My gut told me they might be acceptable with the list, but objectives are the part of the game I am probably least aware of in terms of capitalizing on or designing around. Most of my games have been me teaching people or were done before I collected most of my stuff.

 

 

Screed's Ozzel's Heavy Task Force
Author: TheBigLev

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: Admiral Screed

Assault Objective: Targeting Beacons
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

 

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Admiral Screed  ( 26  points)
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points)
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 177 total ship cost

 

Gladiator II-Class Star Destroyer (62 points)
-  Demolisher  ( 10  points)
-  Admiral Montferrat  ( 5  points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  Assault Proton Torpedoes  ( 5  points)
= 86 total ship cost

 

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
-  Instigator  ( 4  points)
-  Agent Kallus  ( 3  points)
-  Flechette Torpedoes  ( 3  points)
= 54 total ship cost

 

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Jamming Field  ( 2  points)
= 25 total ship cost

 

1 Dengar ( 20 points)
1 Black Squadron ( 9 points)
1 Soontir Fel ( 18 points)
1 TIE Interceptor Squadron ( 11 points)

Edited June 16, 2017 by TheBigLev

[TheBigLev 222]

I realized, like most here have it seems heh, that I could actually trade in the ISD for 3 others. Now I am curious how people might rate this fleet compared to the one above. A part of me realizes activation advantage is awesome, and many small effective attacks is harder to mitigate. Another part of me is whistling the Imperial March and cackling maniacally while rolling all the dice. It seems there is a lack of huge punch at medium-long range, which is why I am still debating whether this is more effective than the original. I think it would be more competitive in a tournament environment as the lifeboat Gozanti and smaller ships would lead to less swingy losses.

 

Screed's Rapid Task Force
Author: TheBigLev

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: Admiral Screed

Assault Objective: Targeting Beacons
Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

 

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
-  Agent Kallus  ( 3  points)
-  Flechette Torpedoes  ( 3  points)
= 50 total ship cost

 

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Jamming Field  ( 2  points)
= 25 total ship cost

 

Gladiator II-Class Star Destroyer (62 points)
-  Demolisher  ( 10  points)
-  Admiral Montferrat  ( 5  points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  Engine Techs  ( 8  points)
-  Assault Proton Torpedoes  ( 5  points)
= 94 total ship cost

 

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
-  Turbolaser Reroute Circuits  ( 7  points)
= 61 total ship cost

 

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
-  Turbolaser Reroute Circuits  ( 7  points)
= 61 total ship cost

 

[ flagship ] Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Admiral Screed  ( 26  points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 51 total ship cost

 

1 Dengar ( 20 points)
1 Black Squadron ( 9 points)
1 TIE Interceptor Squadron ( 11 points)
1 Soontir Fel ( 18 points)

Card view link

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

[Barney 102]

I would try and squeeze in ordinance experts on the raider, Screed only happens once per activation. That's fine for one key squad with flechettes but OE will give better chance of triggering multiple squads.

[Destraa 222]

I've used the following to great effect recently, and it's frightening what it's capable of. @Darth Lupine can attest to that.

 

 

++ Standard (Imperial Navy) [390pts] ++

+ Gozanti-class Flotilla +

Gozanti-class Cruisers [47pts]: •Admiral Motti

Gozanti-class Cruisers [25pts]: Comms Net

+ Imperial Star Destroyer +

Imperial I-class Star Destroyer [120pts]: Ordnance Experts, XI7 Turbolasers

Imperial I-class Star Destroyer [120pts]: Ordnance Experts, XI7 Turbolasers

+ Raider Corvette +

Raider I-class Corvette [48pts]: Ordnance Experts

+ Squadrons +

TIE Fighter [13pts]: •Valen Rudor

TIE Interceptor [17pts]: •Ciena Ree

+ Objectives +

Assault Objective: Most Wanted

Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon

Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

++ Total: [390pts] ++

[Darth Lupine 1,556]

I won by a whisker, and it could've gone either way. The dual ISD pack some frightening firepower.

[Darth Lupine 1,556]

Destraa also did a far better job than I've ever had maneuvering that Raider. I still can't figure the buggers out.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Darth Lupine

[Destraa 222]

1 hour ago, Darth Lupine said:

Destraa also did a far better job than I've ever had maneuvering that Raider. I still can't figure the buggers out.

You're too aggressive for them.

[TheBigLev 222]

That's a really interesting list... I've always been intrigued by barebones and minimally equipped ships.

4 minutes ago, Destraa said:

You're too aggressive for them.

I've thought about the deployment of AA Raiders, and came to the conclusion that they need to stick fairly close to the main combat vessels, or even slightly behind. What kinds of things do you do with yours to make them work?

Edited June 18, 2017 by TheBigLev

[Destraa 222]

23 minutes ago, TheBigLev said:

That's a really interesting list... I've always been intrigued by barebones and minimally equipped ships.

I've thought about the deployment of AA Raiders, and came to the conclusion that they need to stick fairly close to the main combat vessels, or even slightly behind. What kinds of things do you do with yours to make them work?

 I didn't go over speed two, and essentially trapped his fighters and a flotilla. Raiders look like they want to be aggressively thrown in. Huge no no. Make them come to you. With two clicks of yaw on both notches at speed 2, you can essentially barrel roll into a more advantageous position and force them to land in arc, at range. One shot one of Lupine's flotillas doing that, and landed a killing blow on his flagship GSD the same way. Keeping it cheap helps too.

[Darth Lupine 1,556]

Ah, but had you not attempted to kill Bobba at the last round, it wouldn't have been in range for me to Demo it...lol. 

But yeah, I think I tend to run too fast with them.

[Destraa 222]

49 minutes ago, Darth Lupine said:

Ah, but had you not attempted to kill Bobba at the last round, it wouldn't have been in range for me to Demo it...lol. 

But yeah, I think I tend to run too fast with them.

You do. Running speed 3, you lose their greatest strength: maneuverability. At speeds 3 and 4, they are no more maneuverable than Star Destroyers. If you're objective running or trying to get to a location quickly, that's not an issue, but moving into engagement range or maneuvering within it, they've got no ability to reposition effectively without Jerjerrod and a navigate command (allowing for two clicks of yaw on the first joint and a joint of choice). The ability for them to move a half ship's distance at speed 2 is insurmountably powerful in a medium to close range engagement, letting them bring their substantial battery armament to bear multiple turns without the need for drastic speed adjustments, navigate commands, or Moff Jerjerrod. They're a scalpel, not a broadsword, and need to be treated as such, as you found out the hard way. ?

[Darth Lupine 1,556]

I still prefer Gladiators.....lol.