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Daft Blazer

SIX MONTHS!

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So, six months since Beyond the Threshold was released!

six months!

I thought this game represented the way forward for FFG, App integration, cutting edge design, easy to release and distribute content via the App Store etc etc

What the hell happened?

What the hell is going on?

 

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Hard to say with what little information we know.  I assume that the level of effort ($$$) to create these proved higher than anticipated, like many software projects do.  Combine that with possibly meager sales would be a strong reason to slow these down.  Doesn't make sense to lose money on them from FFG's perspective.  Or it could just be that they had to divert efforts to other projects - a lot of people at FFG are essentially floaters working on many different projects.  They do the same type of work but for multiple games/areas so they may not have had many (any?) people working on it over the past few months.  Just some random speculation/thoughts on my part.  

 

Would LOVE to get another announcement soon about something coming down the line for this amazing game though...

Edited by unlimitedpower

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There's this dilemma, too - let me make an analogy: for a computer standard to sell units (be it commodore 64 or iOS devices), it needs to have software. For software to sell, the platform needs to be popular. The core game needs to have n active users for DLC to be viable, and the number of users depend on a great many deal of things, but not least if potential customers thinks the platform can grow or not. Right now, it hasn't grown in half a year, which is unusual for FFG if i'm not mistaken. 

I really hope they have something in the woodworks, but i didn't expect this kind of silence, which is worrying me. It's not just us fans that need new content - the product does too. 

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Six months and nothing but a dice pack?

News about the next LotR cycle is conspicuously absent as well. :(

I wonder if FFG are spreading themselves too thin with things like Runewars Miniatures & Lot5R in development?

C'mon FFG...the silence is deafening!

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I think the software team is very small (based on the delay to solve even critical app problems in some cases) and my theory is the development team by now is only working on the IA app.

The second problem, FFG is heavily focusing  on the new Rune Wars game and the new LCG / collectible games in this year. Besides the Star Wars games, the others miniatures games are lacking of new info  in months ...

MOM still strong and sell lots of units. The last reprint sold out in a month or less from the most online stores (Its already the forth reprint, or more), but most of the early buyers are getting tired of the game because the low replayability and the lack of the new content.

Theres lots of room for improvements in the digital plataform, and its sad to see  they are not taking the true potential of the game.

Edited by kraisto

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I'd argue they might've made the app ´+ toolchain the wrong way if it requires the software teams' attention when designing a DLC scenario based on the core set or even the expansion, because that shouldn't require any further development at all, software side, as long as no nasty hidden bugs surface because of the way the hypothetical new scenario is structured. Unless they wanted to hard-code scenarios into the source itself for some reason i cannot figure. But i'm guessing the opposite, that they made scenario handling convenient, and that it is the scenario authors that are busy with other tasks (like you said, there's a massive focus on Rune Wars, LCG:s and the Star Wars franchise). In that case, let's  hope it's not a five year plan :P

It's good to hear the basic set has sold well. 

Edited by Aelitafrommars

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Aelitafrommars: They actually are sort of hard coded.

From what I can tell they use Unity data objects to define the scenarios.  They then use Unity Editor to add all of this data into the app, and potentially test.  This requires a licence, some degree of technical skill and can't be handed off to someone else to test the scenario, a new build of the app would be required.  If you want to have an internal build without leaking test scenarios to the public (which they haven't done since BtT) this probably also requires abilities in source control to manage it all - not to mention it is just a good idea anyway.

What is apparent from Valkyrie is that even when you have the editor built into the app and designed to be as non-programmer friendly as reasonable, the nature of these scenarios is that they are very complicated to implement for people who have no programming background.

All of this together I'm willing to bet that the early prototypes for scenarios don't even use the app at all.  I wouldn't be entirely surprised though if someone was looking at using Valkyrie internally for exactly this purpose.

Source: Many educated guesses from reverse engineering the app, none of this is confirmed.

Edited by BruceLGL

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Ouch... it makes sense when you put it that way, but at the same time seems to me a bit costly in the long run. Sounds like quite a bit of time/effort between authoring and live testing. At least a lot of the building blocks came ready with the engine. I'm not familiar at all with unity so i don't know how much of a hassle it is compared to, say, filling in a text file with the necessary data in xml format, changing a path string and make:ing an executable in console mode (the two later require no significant technical training, but the first step  would, which is where a custom editor would come in handy).  

It'd be great if they happen to find potential in using Valkyrie for testing purposes!  I've been meaning to try out the scenario editor soon but haven't found the time just yet. 

Edited by Aelitafrommars

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Highly unlikely that they are editing in text, though it is possible with unit projects I doubt it. The editor provides a GUI to put things together, and you can script that to help with things, but it will still probably be adding components and connecting then as pretty much data entry.

I am sure they are still developing their work flow and understanding their problems.  Most it houses take years to get the development workflow sorted for a new system and this is not a pure it house, a very new system and a type of development that will be very uncommon.

The thing that surprises me (and goes against what I have written here) is how quickly they got d2e content out. That said maybe at the time the coders were in on that and they are trying to move to a model where that isn't required?

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Another thing, there doesn't seem to be a clear strategy/idea for expanding the game, unless I'm mistaken.

Frankly, given the games commercial success, the lack of new content, and the seeming lack of a broader picture for the game is astonishing. For instance, Archam Horror LCG, has a known structure, with delux box and a cycle of 6 scenario packs. The same thing does not exist for MOM2. It should.

Each box expansion should come with set of DLC scenarios that create a story.

Given the small number of scenarios in the core set, I'm beginning to regret my purchase.

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There might be a clear strategy, it's just that it isn't shared with the public at the moment. So we're speculating here instead. If it would be true that they're reorganizing their production model for this product line, .i think that in itself would be reason enough for the current silence. In that case, i wouldn't be too worried. Let's hope we hear news soon. 

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12 hours ago, Daft Blazer said:

Another thing, there doesn't seem to be a clear strategy/idea for expanding the game, unless I'm mistaken.

Frankly, given the games commercial success, the lack of new content, and the seeming lack of a broader picture for the game is astonishing. For instance, Archam Horror LCG, has a known structure, with delux box and a cycle of 6 scenario packs. The same thing does not exist for MOM2. It should.

Each box expansion should come with set of DLC scenarios that create a story.

Given the small number of scenarios in the core set, I'm beginning to regret my purchase.

 

LCGs have all the same patterns, but they still have problems. For example, AH LCG was completely underproduced to match demand at the beginning, and people got crazy to get the core set and the first deluxe.

Apart from LCGs, there's no "clear strategy" that's shared with the public for any of their games (even games that usually go one small, one big exp are not 100% granted to be so, see the two consecutive big boxes for Imperial Assault), so, there's not much that could be said from our point of view, but I'm pretty sure the company has a clear strategy about what to do with each of their products.

MoM sold a lot, and it's still hot, so, there's no reason to doubt we won't be seeing further products. The reasons why they are late could be different, but with GenCon just around the corner, we'll probably get some announcements (before or at the Con)

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12 hours ago, BruceLGL said:

Highly unlikely that they are editing in text, though it is possible with unit projects I doubt it. The editor provides a GUI to put things together, and you can script that to help with things, but it will still probably be adding components and connecting then as pretty much data entry.

I am sure they are still developing their work flow and understanding their problems.  Most it houses take years to get the development workflow sorted for a new system and this is not a pure it house, a very new system and a type of development that will be very uncommon.

The thing that surprises me (and goes against what I have written here) is how quickly they got d2e content out. That said maybe at the time the coders were in on that and they are trying to move to a model where that isn't required?

Nah, I think they started working in RTL app and content years ago, same with the MOM second edition. The product planning its almost 4 years to every new product, and a little less to expansions.

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15 minutes ago, Julia said:

 

LCGs have all the same patterns, but they still have problems. For example, AH LCG was completely underproduced to match demand at the beginning, and people got crazy to get the core set and the first deluxe.

Apart from LCGs, there's no "clear strategy" that's shared with the public for any of their games (even games that usually go one small, one big exp are not 100% granted to be so, see the two consecutive big boxes for Imperial Assault), so, there's not much that could be said from our point of view, but I'm pretty sure the company has a clear strategy about what to do with each of their products.

MoM sold a lot, and it's still hot, so, there's no reason to doubt we won't be seeing further products. The reasons why they are late could be different, but with GenCon just around the corner, we'll probably get some announcements (before or at the Con)

The problem its not seeing further products (and waiting half year or more to see new content or whathever sux). The problem is, they have a good tool to release new content quickly, without any physical production cost and in a wide range on the digital plataforms and they not use effectively. The game has a low replay value, and the monsters and tiles collections are underused , problems that can be fixed with the release of more regular content.

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53 minutes ago, Julia said:

MoM sold a lot, and it's still hot, so, there's no reason to doubt we won't be seeing further products. The reasons why they are late could be different, but with GenCon just around the corner, we'll probably get some announcements (before or at the Con)

GenCon is still 2 months away (exactly 9 weeks from today, actually).  Considering it's already been 6 months, that's FAR too long between releases for a game like this, much less "radio silence" from FFG on the topic.  

Considering how tense many of FFG's consumers are since all of the GW games were dropped (since many people don't know about how licensing and IPs work), this delay could start to look like what we had with Warhammer Quest: TACG.  Rumors started to fly about it being cancelled, and it turned out to be true.  This is obviously a different case, since Lovecraft's works are Public Domain, but again, a lot of FFG's customer base probably don't know that, so this could create worry and cause people to sell off their copies of the game.  

Long story short, for MoM2E to continue, there NEEDS to be some kind of announcement soon.

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47 minutes ago, kraisto said:

... they have a good tool to release new content quickly, without any physical production cost ...

This is a common attitude to software, which is why EVERY software project is over budget, late and full of bugs and dropped features.  It is almost certainly why they thought they would have content out by now.

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They just had a bunch of jobs posted for Fantasy Flight Interactive which will be a digital gaming wing of Fantasy Flight Games, so I cannot imagine that the "digital" aspect of this is what caused the issue.

FFG released a TON of content right out of the gate for this game, it sold out promptly...what should be more troubling is that the products for this game aren't in the Upcoming Games queue even has "Awaiting Reprint."  So, either the reprinted product is still flush on shelves in the distributor network at this point and none is needed or they're just not planning any reprints (less likely).

Either way, it sounds like the audience for this game may not have been as big as FFG had potentially thought.

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3 hours ago, Gamesontables said:

Either way, it sounds like the audience for this game may not have been as big as FFG had potentially thought.

How can it be if u got 4 scenarios (not much replayable) for 100$, are u kidding me m8?

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3 hours ago, Gamesontables said:

They just had a bunch of jobs posted for Fantasy Flight Interactive which will be a digital gaming wing of Fantasy Flight Games, so I cannot imagine that the "digital" aspect of this is what caused the issue.

FFG released a TON of content right out of the gate for this game, it sold out promptly...what should be more troubling is that the products for this game aren't in the Upcoming Games queue even has "Awaiting Reprint."  So, either the reprinted product is still flush on shelves in the distributor network at this point and none is needed or they're just not planning any reprints (less likely).

Either way, it sounds like the audience for this game may not have been as big as FFG had potentially thought.

If they posted a bunch of jobs it means they are underhanded. Also, it takes some time for programmers to get to know how the code works, to actually develop it, etc. If anything, this brings hope that at the very least we will see more scenarios in the future.

Also, this game is highly ranked on BGG, which should be an indicator to FFG to not drop it.

Another advantage to having a digital half is that the existing scenarios can be further tweaked to add more replayability.

Edited by falveryn

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55 minutes ago, gogovsky said:

How can it be if u got 4 scenarios (not much replayable) for 100$, are u kidding me m8?

The scenarios range in many different lengths, and there are are multiple variants as well as win conditions, some of which come up in the middle of play. It's not the same as saying that it's like the same level of a video game over and over. Not to mention that you are getting more components by way of tiles, monsters, and game parts. There's a reason Monopoly only costs $12, so please take all that into consideration.

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