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I definitely think we can agree that the Lion cards are stronger than we saw in Crane. There were a number of very conditional cards in Crane that I had problems with Admit Defeat and Noble Sacrifice which are coasters vs. Lion. Kakita Kaezin and Duelist Training aren't much better but atleast they don't have such a hard condition to play them.

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I think this has us missing two lion cards.  The full art/text of Ikoma Prodigy and card number 73 which is a lion character that has 2 or 3 cost and a name that comes after deathseeker if 2 cost or before kitsu spirit caller if 3 cost.  All of their conflict cards are spoiled.  This gives both Crane and Lion a 14/10 split between dynasty and conflict

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Yeah, pretty much what has been said.  Not a fan of the design of Toturi pretry much being a repeat.  The Lion look crazy strong right now.  

And I agree with the dueling comment.  Does seem strange that lion can often out duel Crane and Toturi can stomp Hoturi in a duel.

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20 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Lion, Crab, and Unicorn champs so get the ring ability for military conflicts.

Crane and Scorpion champs get the ring ability for political conflicts.

Phoenix and Dragon champs get the ring ability for either conflict type.

Very well said. 

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5 minutes ago, Kakita Katai said:

I definitely think we can agree that the Lion cards are stronger than we saw in Crane. There were a number of very conditional cards in Crane that I had problems with Admit Defeat and Noble Sacrifice which are coasters vs. Lion. Kakita Kaezin and Duelist Training aren't much better but atleast they don't have such a hard condition to play them.

Probably true.  Looks like Lion may be the clan to beat out of the gate.  I know, we still need to preview most the clans, but you can't deny the the pure mil strength and synergy they have.  I was surprised to see that card adding fate to their units.

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2 minutes ago, hidasaurus said:

Probably true.  Looks like Lion may be the clan to beat out of the gate.  I know, we still need to preview most the clans, but you can't deny the the pure mil strength and synergy they have.  I was surprised to see that card adding fate to their units.

Yup they look good :). I think they get it due to the fact that they will never be able to claim 1 fate for passing in the dynasty phase.

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First off, I think the Lion look to be far more interesting for play than the Crane. They also have so many more interesting splashable cards for other clans to have fun with. Now, let's look at the individual cards.

Master of the Spear: I quite like her but she's potentially vulnerable for the turn between playing her and then using her action. It's a fantastic attacking action too but she will chew through your fate and that might actually be somewhat tough for the clan. She seems to fit into the midrange/discard trick type of lion decks.

Ikoma Prodigy: I'm guessing she gives you 1 honor when you place one or fate on her (reaction most likely). We don't know her stats but she's most likely a 1/3 or something in line with the more political lion personalities. I'm also guessing something like a cost of 2. The gal really fills out the honor and political side of the lion, which is something they can always use more of. That 1 extra honor is not to be under estimated and with cards like For Greater Glory

Obstinate Recruit: Seems rather meh to me since a good number of players want to chew through their honor for cards. For other players that can control that urge, he'll be a decent, cheap military attacker. He may also be a rather meta card that limited to environments that feature more 'dishonorable' players and honor usage rather than one filled with honor runners.

Vengeful Oathkeeper: He's a nice personality that should fit in with most of the lion archetypes. He's free when you lose a province and can be used as either a military or political dude but he might be one of those conflict cards that simply sits in your hand because you're spending most of your fate on dynasty personalities. He might find more usage in the discard archetype of lion.

Stand Your Ground: The art doesn't really describe the text but I do like how this card really helps the honorable aspect of the lion. I could actually see this in certain Crane decks to keep around some of their personalities like Hotaru.

Strength in Numbers: Wow, I really like this one. It really screws over the 0 glory personalities (poor Wandering Ronin) and could easily target the more lower glory personalities too. I'm happy that it simply moves that character home rather than bow them. Overall, it's a stable for the clan.

For Greater Glory: You swarm a province and can keep those guys around for another turn? For 1 fate? It is a bit narrower because of the bushi keyword but I still expect it to used quite often and in a variety of decks.

Sashimono: Hmmm, a bit expensive but it might find some home in a few decks that really want to reuse a big, expensive guy or gal. I don't think it will see much play in Voltron since there's a better card in this article for that deck.

Ikoma Eiji: Both this guy and the spiritcaller really push the discard archetype of the lion. It might be an incredibility powerful one but I might have to try it out. Eiji also provides a great additional use: pursuing the Imperial Favor since he doesn't need to bow for his ability.

Matsu Beiona: A bit too expensive and she might be troublesome to trigger. She's almost a win more card if you've played a ton of other bushi mooks. She does have a political skill of 2 so she does provide more balance in a military deck.

Kitsu Spiritcaller: I really do like this personality since I quite like to cheat in expensive characters. The article does bring up the obvious Honored General and as we get more dynasty packs, the pool of usable personalities should increase.

Guidance of the Ancestors: Just what Voltron needed! It also serves as a reusable form of pump for personalities while mitigating the card disadvantage inherent in attachments.

The Art of War: Will be run in Lion and that's about enough.

Toturi: Where's the brilliant tactician ability? Overall, he's rather boring to me but he will probably see some play since he's still a good target for Eiji or the Spiritcaller. 

Possible Lion archetypes: Swarm, Honor Running, Midrange, Reanimator (bringing back characters from the discard pile)

Edited by Kubernes

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26 minutes ago, BordOne said:

I hope they just did this with Hotaru and Toturi to highlight their connection in the story. Also they are making the Crane and Lion into polar opposites of one another so the opposite stats and skills fit

Makes sense due to the storyline they are the most at odds with one another. 

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4 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

Ikoma Prodigy: I'm guessing she gives you 1 honor when you place one or fate on her (reaction most likely). We don't know her stats but she's most likely a 1/3 or something in line with the more political lion personalities. I'm also guessing something like a cost of 2. The gal really fills out the honor and political side of the lion, which is something they can always use more of. That 1 extra honor is not to be under estimated and with cards like For Greater Glory

Based on card numbering she has a cost of 1

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11 minutes ago, YasukiKaito said:

I'm actually kind of a fan of Toturi and Hotaru being counterparts to each other.  I think its kind of cool and builds up the 'Right Hand' vs 'Left Hand' of the Emperor thing. 

Also - excited!!!

Yeah I like it a lot. I don't think FFG is running out of ideas, they intentionally did this to highlight the two clans. They were the first two out of the gate. Who knows maybe they designed Toturi then Hotaru and they saw the Lion clan as needing a counterpart. Really highlights the difference between the two. They are honorable clans that will fight in conflicts with personalities in their respective spheres and have some tools to defend other conflicts. Lion looks a little stronger, but Crane could go crazy with honor. We shall soon find out.

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48 minutes ago, Akodo_Metuki said:

It does take some of the sting out of swarm, still hate swarm and the line: With their fierce Bushi, the Lion look to overwhelm their opponents with pure numbers to break through their provinces and prove their superiority. Doesn't feel like Lion to me, goblins could swarm you, Lion use tactics to win. but at least they have strong cards. seems like they have lower influence than some of t he other powerful cards, but the difference between 2 and 3 isnt that great.

I felt the same way, i've always played Lion tactician and hate these "dumb bushi" decks... lets have fun with other clans and wait for more cards...

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43 minutes ago, BordOne said:

I hope they just did this with Hotaru and Toturi to highlight their connection in the story. Also they are making the Crane and Lion into polar opposites of one another so the opposite stats and skills fit

I hope that is the case too.

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I like that the Lion are more inclined to bid conservatively to maintain the disparity in honor between them and their opponent - while the Crane may be more willing to spend their honor drawing and dueling.  I do wonder how the Crane will excel at dueling over the Lion with the new dueling mechanics...  Maybe they are counting more on the conservative bidding than we realize...

Also - Seeing more cards and their unique Lion theme being brought out in the mechanics makes me very excited to see more Scorpion.  Bayushi Manipulator and I Can Swim seem like they will be a balanced clan between battle and politics, but with more ability to mess around with the bid dial to play with more than they deserve.

Edited by shosuko

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7 minutes ago, Kakita Shiro said:

I thought that was during the Regroup phase.

It appears you are correct and it is the Regroup phaase where you may choose to discard them, and any face up card in a broken province is automatically discarded.

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1 minute ago, shosuko said:

I do wonder how the Crane will excel at dueling over the Lion with the new dueling mechanics...  Maybe they are counting more on the conservative bidding than we realize...

I'm not seeing where the issue is.  Just browsing quickly through the lions, outside of Toturi, none of them have military higher than 3.  That means Kaezin starts on equal footing with nearly all of them.  If Kaezin is honored (which isn't hard to do in crane, he starts at  5 military.  The only other duel we know of is Duelist training and you can put that on whoever you want.  Lion's military strength comes from their numbers and not their raw stats so I'm not really seeing the issue with dueling against lion (outside of Toturi).

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2 minutes ago, JRosen9 said:

I'm not seeing where the issue is.  Just browsing quickly through the lions, outside of Toturi, none of them have military higher than 3.  That means Kaezin starts on equal footing with nearly all of them.  If Kaezin is honored (which isn't hard to do in crane, he starts at  5 military.  The only other duel we know of is Duelist training and you can put that on whoever you want.  Lion's military strength comes from their numbers and not their raw stats so I'm not really seeing the issue with dueling against lion (outside of Toturi).

Yup.

And also is it just me or Way of the Lion sucks when compared to Banzai? not complaining :P

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