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Runewars vs. A Song of Ice and Fire

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28 minutes ago, Blutsteigen said:

People new to minis gaming that balk at the Got prices are not factoring in that they come already assembled. 

They better do a **** fine job cleaning the mould lines if they build em too, can be a real ***** to get at some otherwise (never dealt with a CMoN product before though, oh well, next spring maybe if rising sun drops then). 

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I just literally made my decision on this as I was going to back one or buy the other.

Many of the points made above are true, unfortunately CMON don't make good games they make buckets of minis and stumble occasionally on a good set of rules (Bloodrage I'm looking at you) This is problematic as kickstarter means you can't really know how good it is before backing and with all the exclusives you feel you have lost out a bit if you wait.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Darthain said:

They better do a **** fine job cleaning the mould lines if they build em too, can be a real ***** to get at some otherwise (never dealt with a CMoN product before though, oh well, next spring maybe if rising sun drops then). 

I get the impression that when CMON say 'pre-assembled' they really mean 'single cast' or 'one piece' - but maybe I'm mistaken. 

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6 hours ago, jonboyjon1990 said:

I get the impression that when CMON say 'pre-assembled' they really mean 'single cast' or 'one piece' - but maybe I'm mistaken. 

Even then, it still requires a multi piece mould.  Aka mould lines

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12 minutes ago, taylorcowbell said:

Dam (adding the n makes it a swear??), just looking at kicktraq, final tally for July 30th was 4500$ raised and 26 new backers. Progress just died.

Not surprising , CMoNs crowd are mini gamers,  they are board gamers who like the toy factor. Very different perspectives on value.

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think youre missing a negative in there, but yeah. Doesnt help the cmons usual draw is a bunch of kickstarter exclusives. Theyre trying to do the right thing by not introducing those (which would seriously hamper their ability to go forward as a growing competitive game), but it means their kickstarter is taking a hit. The lack of big discount from retail also doesnt help.

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CMoN is pretty good at managing their campaigns ... and the changes made seem to have given the project a bump and they have brought in an additional 20k. The day should cap off their best pledge day (monetarily) since Day 3 of the campaign. Their struggle right now is figuring out how to entice new backers. 

That said, I think the game will be simple, fast, and fun to play (I'm a little iffy on the tactics deck stuff but it seems similar to Imperial Assault and I don't mind it too much in that game). I also have no plans of jumping ship from Runewars either ... the action based initiative is one of the most exciting mechanics I've used in a tabletop warfare game ... eliminating the randomness of other variable initiative games (like Batman Miniature Game & Bolt Action). 

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7 minutes ago, Hawkman2000 said:

I almost wonder if the slowish start to the new season of GOT might be impacting CMON's success here. Maybe if they kicked it closer to the middle or end of the season there might be more rabid GOT fans jumping on this. 

It's quite possible. Last night's episode teased some mass combat and appeared to increase the enthusiasm of some pledgers in the comment section. If HBO/Benioff/Weiss pull off some epic battles in the next couple of weeks before the end of this Kickstarter, it may drive some people toward the campaign to make a pledge or increase it ... combine that with a traditional CMoN grand finale to the campaign that incites Kickstarter madness and maybe they get some significant spikes before it is all said and done. 

Additionally, many CMoN fans dropped a lot of money on Green Horde ... GenCon looms ... its the end of the month (there are bills to pay) ... the IP, while popular, is more of an adult property than a family property (haha, for the record, CMoN did address one backer's concern and stated that there is no nudity in the SoIaF TMG) ... 

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On 7/31/2017 at 5:30 PM, Hawkman2000 said:

I almost wonder if the slowish start to the new season of GOT might be impacting CMON's success here. Maybe if they kicked it closer to the middle or end of the season there might be more rabid GOT fans jumping on this. 

Slow start -- as in, the plot?  The ratings smashed records -- http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-7-premiere-ratings-1202497751/

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37 minutes ago, Hawkman2000 said:

Yes, slow plot. And ratings are always high when a new season starts. Look at the ratings mid-season. Same has been true with Walking Dead. 

What the what? I think the plot has been amazing so far this season, but that's just my humble opinion. And people and fleets and troops are zooming all around Westeros with awkwardly fast timing. I don't understand what you mean by slow plot.

And while ratings usually do hit a high on a season premiere (top chart), looking at the ratings per episode of Game of Thrones doesn't statistically show a dip mid-season. Sure there is a spike down in episode 6 or 7 of the last three seasons, but that is a single data point in each season, and most likely an outlier. Season 5 is the only season that took a hard dip after the first episode, but if you look at it compared to the season 4 premiere, you can see it spiked up quite high, then normalized. So it was the premiere that was an outlier in the data, not the drop back to normal.

I think Walking Dead has a slow plot, and the audience knows that the best episodes are the premieres and mid-season premieres, as you can tell by the spikes (bottom chart).

Regarding the Kickstarter, I think they're hitting the right audience at the right time. Companies that want to scale and have taken on popular IPs need to do data analysis for campaigns like this. I could be wrong, but I would bet CMON did at least a little bit of research and a little bit of discussion on the best time to release this campaign. And if I'm right, they released this at this time purposefully. They hit their goal within the first hour. Kickstarter campaigns always do well in the first 72 hours and last 72 hours. They released it near the start of this season, and it is scheduled for an April delivery timeline. Season premieres of GoT have traditionally been in the month of April, except for this season, so it is a good bet Season 8 will start around then as well, considering indications that they are filming Seasons 7 and 8 closer together than 6 and 7 due to actor scheduling conflicts and Martin's inability to finish his **** books. But as Martin has now given the showrunners all the major plot points for the rest of the story, we could deduce there is less of a chance we will have a late season 8.

Tl;dr: CMON probably purposefully chose this time to release the kickstarter because A) everyone is excited about the start of this season, and B) it will be in the hands of supporters right around the time Season 8 starts. From there, they can sell the game at full cost (not at kickstarter reduced prices) while everyone is going crazy with all the battles on screen and off.

 

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Edited by wisetiger7

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1 hour ago, wisetiger7 said:

What the what? I think the plot has been amazing so far this season, but that's just my humble opinion. And people and fleets and troops are zooming all around Westeros with awkwardly fast timing. I don't understand what you mean by slow plot.

And while ratings usually do hit a high on a season premiere (top chart), looking at the ratings per episode of Game of Thrones doesn't statistically show a dip mid-season. Sure there is a spike down in episode 6 or 7 of the last three seasons, but that is a single data point in each season, and most likely an outlier. Season 5 is the only season that took a hard dip after the first episode, but if you look at it compared to the season 4 premiere, you can see it spiked up quite high, then normalized. So it was the premiere that was an outlier in the data, not the drop back to normal.

I think Walking Dead has a slow plot, and the audience knows that the best episodes are the premieres and mid-season premieres, as you can tell by the spikes (bottom chart).

Regarding the Kickstarter, I think they're hitting the right audience at the right time. Companies that want to scale and have taken on popular IPs need to do data analysis for campaigns like this. I could be wrong, but I would bet CMON did at least a little bit of research and a little bit of discussion on the best time to release this campaign. And if I'm right, they released this at this time purposefully. They hit their goal within the first hour. Kickstarter campaigns always do well in the first 72 hours and last 72 hours. They released it near the start of this season, and it is scheduled for an April delivery timeline. Season premieres of GoT have traditionally been in the month of April, except for this season, so it is a good bet Season 8 will start around then as well, considering indications that they are filming Seasons 7 and 8 closer together than 6 and 7 due to actor scheduling conflicts and Martin's inability to finish his **** books. But as Martin has now given the showrunners all the major plot points for the rest of the story, we could deduce there is less of a chance we will have a late season 8.

Tl;dr: CMON probably purposefully chose this time to release the kickstarter because A) everyone is excited about the start of this season, and B) it will be in the hands of supporters right around the time Season 8 starts. From there, they can sell the game at full cost (not at kickstarter reduced prices) while everyone is going crazy with all the battles on screen and off.

 

ca3338202ae3f74129c469e1421eff60.png

81e6d0f3a972a49df108bf9435bc376d.png

Your information on season 7 premiering later doesn't match up to the fact that weather exists.  Winter has come, and they need to film more scenes in actual winter for their on location filming.  Additionally, the current rumor is that Season 8 won't release until 2019 because the episodes will be longer and will require more filming.  While that rumor is likely overblown, I can't imagine they will need less winterized on location filming.  I would anticipate a midsummer premier again.

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3 minutes ago, rowdyoctopus said:

Your information on season 7 premiering later doesn't match up to the fact that weather exists.  Winter has come, and they need to film more scenes in actual winter for their on location filming.  Additionally, the current rumor is that Season 8 won't release until 2019 because the episodes will be longer and will require more filming.  While that rumor is likely overblown, I can't imagine they will need less winterized on location filming.  I would anticipate a midsummer premier again.

You make a good point about the possibility Season 8 might not drop until 2019, as it was stated by the showrunner. But that is still up in the air. When you analyze data, you check trends. And while it is important to note any rumors that might change the future of your plans, it is irresponsible to plan solely around that. Of course, that also assumes CMON even did a statistical analysis for the campaign in the first place, bahahaha!

And just to play the Devil's Advocate here, while the weather point might make initial sense, it doesn't deny the fact that there are places with snow even in the summer. And making the assumption (albeit huge) that existing 'winterized' sets won't be needed much longer (ie Castle Black) as initial action is supposedly taking place at Eastwatch-by-the-Sea (IIRC, though I could be wrong about this), that means they can use new locations for winter battles. But then again, you could very well be right anticipating July 2019.

All the scripts for Season 8 are already written, filming begins this fall, and there is a shorter overall run-time for Season 8. Of course there are also the time considerations for significantly more CGI work that needs to be done if they are showing way more battle scenes, white walkers, and dragon action, but that can all be done without winter sets. But it will take time to put together, and I know the showrunners want to do this right. Regardless, the timeline for the release of the game is just fine. Looking at the popularity of the show as it stands now, the ratings are the highest they've ever been. Whether Season 8 comes out April '18 or July '19 isn't going to diminish the fact that GoT is a popular show with an increasing trend line for ratings, with a fanbase that loves games based on the books and show (over a dozen board games, card games, and video games). Kickstarters are supposed to get the product off the ground, so that it can be sold commercially in the long run with greater profits post-campaign. IMO, they're right on track.

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Just now, wisetiger7 said:

You make a good point about the possibility Season 8 might not drop until 2019, as it was stated by the showrunner. But that is still up in the air. When you analyze data, you check trends. And while it is important to note any rumors that might change the future of your plans, it is irresponsible to plan solely around that. Of course, that also assumes CMON even did a statistical analysis for the campaign in the first place, bahahaha!

And just to play the Devil's Advocate here, while the weather point might make initial sense, it doesn't deny the fact that there are places with snow even in the summer. And making the assumption (albeit huge) that existing 'winterized' sets won't be needed much longer (ie Castle Black) as initial action is supposedly taking place at Eastwatch-by-the-Sea (IIRC, though I could be wrong about this), that means they can use new locations for winter battles. But then again, you could very well be right anticipating July 2019.

All the scripts for Season 8 are already written, filming begins this fall, and there is a shorter overall run-time for Season 8. Of course there are also the time considerations for significantly more CGI work that needs to be done if they are showing way more battle scenes, white walkers, and dragon action, but that can all be done without winter sets. But it will take time to put together, and I know the showrunners want to do this right. Regardless, the timeline for the release of the game is just fine. Looking at the popularity of the show as it stands now, the ratings are the highest they've ever been. Whether Season 8 comes out April '18 or July '19 isn't going to diminish the fact that GoT is a popular show with an increasing trend line for ratings, with a fanbase that loves games based on the books and show (over a dozen board games, card games, and video games). Kickstarters are supposed to get the product off the ground, so that it can be sold commercially in the long run with greater profits post-campaign. IMO, they're right on track.

I'm just going by the show's own reasoning.  They filmed season 7 later than usual because they wanted all of their locations to look like they do in winter, even the milder and sunnier King's Landing.  That was what they announced.  I assume the same will be true for Season 8.  If they start filming this fall, that's even later than they started Season 7.

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Sorry for the off topic, but not knowing anyone else who has read Erikson's Malazan book of the fallen, i was glad to see other fans :) Sanderson's Mistborn and Way of Kings, and Powder Mage by McClellan are also excellent imho

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My impression of SOFAI is mediocre at best.

To be honest, its a very streamlined ruleset that still revolve around rank n file. Probably what would happen if Age of Sigmar had kept RnF instead of going skirmish. And Im fine with this, I have no issues with simplistic rulesets as long as the game offer tactics and depth through other means. And since RnF games usually are won and lost through maneuvering, I expect no less from SOFAI.

Im also a lover of rolling handful of dice, its a preference thing and im one who enjoys it! But I feel more and more that the D6 has played out its role in gaming, D8s or even D10s should become the new standard.

As for human vs human vs human etc, aestetics aside, there will probably be some big differences on how the various faction play and their stats. This is a game, after all, and even though its all humans there is no reason a "berserker" cant have more wounds but less movement then, say, a "ranger". There wont be many extremes perhaps but I have no doubt there will be very noticable differences between the armies.

 

All this said though, I find very little that intrigues me with this game. Im a mediocre fan of the tv-show at best, and never read the books. I stopped playing Warhammer ages ago and the most fun ive ever had in a rank n file game was "Warmaster" which is a semi-realistic historical inspired spinoff of Warhammer set in 10mm scale. Ill agree that my interest for Runewars died off all too heavily shortly after its release, mainly because it didnt surface well locally, but it still offers a needed reinterpretation of an otherwise tired genre.

 

I had plans on jumping in the SOFAI kickstarter back when the game was first announces but ive decided to not. Ill wait and see, knowing I might pick up a starter down the line, but only if the game proves to be more then its premise tells.

 

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I feel I gotta add though that for a D6 based dicechucker, I really like the few abilities and "special rules" that ASOFAI seem to have so far. Simple yet effective things such as rerolling misses, 6s counting double and so on is nothing new but it all comes together in a simple and effective system that should allow units to distinguish their roles and theme in battle. Praise be where its deserved.

Edited by Soulless

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Yeah, I agree they are using simple but effective mechanics for the d6s.  Nothing really new, but the rules do seem nice, quick, and simple with just enough flavor to differentiate the units.  

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ASOFAI is winding down and after looking through everything I think both games will probably be successful.  CMON is doing a good job on the KS giving you fun stuff (replacing all of the cardboard in the boxed set primarily) without pushing away retailers.  The way they are doing the characters is also really neat too.  I am obviously not throwing away my Runewars stuff and still have a lot of it on the painting table, but I think there may be room for both games in the market.  

I bought into the kickstarter because I have been looking for a "historical" style wargame. While not really historical, Westeros has such a rich history and low magic that it really gives me the best of both worlds for a "historical" fix.  Lannisters v Starks is actually more engaging than Greeks v Persians, heh!  For those that havent been following it:

 

 

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On 7/31/2017 at 2:42 AM, Lilikin said:

 

Many of the points made above are true, unfortunately CMON don't make good games they make buckets of minis and stumble occasionally on a good set of rules (Bloodrage I'm looking at you) 

Bloodrage is an Eric Lang game CMON produced is why it stands out in the crowd.  He's done a bunch of stuff, notably chaos in the old world, quarriors/dice masters, etc. Prior.  Not a huge fan of his work, but he is well recieved.

Edited by Darthain

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