*Spoilers* Strange solution identified

[StormyWaters 124]

Perhaps the greatest mystery of all so far has been solved!  Now to add it back to my deck so I can immediately replace it. 

[monorico 30]

ya... I have to say, that was one of the coolest things they have come out with. I loved it a lot. Even though I had to add it back in, to add the upgraded copy. Such a cool idea, to identify something, then choose what you identified it to be. I love it.

[nungunz 221]

Argh!  I'm 3 scenarios into Dunwhich and a discovered solution.......and I'm Jim Culver.....can't take any of the upgraded solutions.

[Notturno81 6]

Nungunz this is really bad luck:D Anyway this idea is just awesome. I can't wait with what they will come up next:)

[CEOWolf 46]

What pack is the solution identified?

[Jobu 720]

The one that was released the same day that this was posted.

[StormyWaters 124]

2 hours ago, CEOWolf said:

What pack is the solution identified?

Where Doom Awaits

[Brianish 153]

Yeah I'm a little annoyed that that's all it does. Give us a heads up, maybe. I assumed it was narrative, so I put it in my Roland deck and spent time identifying it. Even if he COULD take a level 4 Seeker card, I identified it then promptly removed it, spending XP for the replacement, as I'm sure a lot of people did. It's a neat idea, but some kind of hint to help make the call wouldn't have been totally out of line. 

Edited June 9, 2017 by Brianish

[Doma0997 72]

I was saying from the very beginning it would probably lead to an upgraded player card that needed the  campaign note. Did not think however that it would have to still be in your deck.

[mwmcintyre 271]

This time around I plan to ignore the has to be in your deck requirement. I had it in and identified the solution and that should be good enough. I'll follow the rule for future playthroughs since there won't be any excuse to not know about it.

[monorico 30]

58 minutes ago, mwmcintyre said:

This time around I plan to ignore the has to be in your deck requirement. I had it in and identified the solution and that should be good enough. I'll follow the rule for future playthroughs since there won't be any excuse to not know about it.

It just costs one more experience to add it in. I removed it from my deck. So I added it back in for 1 exp, then spent 4 to upgrade it

[awp832 447]

which variant do you fancy the most?  4 (or possibly 5) xp is a lot to spend on this card.   So I'm somewhat hesitant.   

[Buhallin 4,563]

I got lucky - we held off starting Dunwich until enough were out that we could play straight through, and I just identified it last weekend.

I think the attack one has to be the top of the pack.  Three uses, +4 Fight (effectively) and 3 damage is insane for a Seeker.

Evade would be next, although it may depend on your group composition.  I'm probably going to take one because our current group doesn't have a good evader.

The heal is definitely the weakest.  It's very good for a heal, but there's a good selection of other healing that costs way less than 4 XP.

[Noccus 324]

I'm with buhallin on this one. The attack option is certainly the best pick.

The evade one is ok of course, but won't work long against hunter monsters.

And indeed the healing one kinda sucks. It's healing in the seeker class true, but it's still far too weak for 4 xp. Even when playing solo.

[Buhallin 4,563]

11 minutes ago, Noccus said:

It's healing in the seeker class true, but it's still far too weak for 4 xp.

Eh, I don't know how weak I think it is.  Comparing just pure heals:

Clarity of Mind: 2 resources, 4 actions, heals 3 (0.5)
Emergency Aid: 2 resources, 1 action, heals 2 (0.66)
First Aid: 2 resources, 4 actions, heals 3 (flexible) (0.5)
Liquid Courage: 1 resource, 4 actions, heals 4-8, at risk (0.45-1.33)
Medical Text: 2 resources, X actions, X heal, at risk (0.6 after 3 uses, assuming no failure)
Moment of Respite: 3 resources, 1 action, heals 3 (.75)
Strange Solution: 1 resource, 4 actions, heals 6 (1.15)

If we just look at a super-simple comparison (heal/resources+action), it's the only thing other than Liquid Courage that gets north of a 1.0 factor, and it has a fairly nasty test that limits its applicability (assuming you fail the test and count the lost cards as extra actions, it falls below 0.5).  Most hover around that 0.5 mark.

So ignoring Liquid Courage for the moment, Strange Solution's healing efficiency is more than double anything else in the game.  The next highest at 0.75 is a 3 XP card.  I don't think it's underpowered for its cost at all, honestly.

[Noccus 324]

Hmmm. I wouldn't add any horror heal effect in this equation, as it doesn't compare simply because it doesn't heal damage.

That, and it costs a whopping 4 xp. I still think it pretty weak as you can buy way better cards for that amount.

If they had given it the fast icon & 3 supplies (or something) I would have liked it a lot better.

 

[awp832 447]

It's a hard call for me between the Evade and the Fight,  I don't think either is obviously better.

Evade is nice because a 6  base evade will almost certainly evade any enemy, and if needed you can continue to boost with Hyperawareness or cards.  

Combat 6 is very strong as well, but it's not almost certainly successful, and it is difficult for Seekers to boost combat, although they can commit cards like Inquiring Minds which could help.  Still, the lack of a talent to boost combat with means you are still going to need some extra help to get your Acid solutions to land.  

Healing I think I agree is the worst of the group.   While the solution can be used to heal others, I think in comparison with the simple Bulletproof Vest it doesn't come out well.  The vest is cheaper in terms of XP and costs only 1 more resource to play down, but once it is out it soaks 4 damage without the need for spending actions.  The availability of loads of allies for seekers also softens the need for extra hp.  

[Buhallin 4,563]

1 hour ago, Noccus said:

That, and it costs a whopping 4 xp. I still think it pretty weak as you can buy way better cards for that amount.

If they had given it the fast icon & 3 supplies (or something) I would have liked it a lot better.

I think including horror heals is a worthwhile comparison.  They're both healing damage, regardless of the flavor of damage it is.  Horror is no less damage than damage.

I definitely agree that there are better options for 4 XP - I was mainly comparing it to other healing cards.  Moment of Respite is the closest as a L3, and still falls short on the comparison.

I think the issue is more broadly with the healing cards at higher level, and whether they're worth the price.  But comparing the Solution's healing to others, it does seem to be in line with what we'd expect the improved healing to be given that cost.  Is it worth it?  I dunno...  but healing that's 2.5x more efficient than most of the other options is impressive.

[Buhallin 4,563]

1 hour ago, awp832 said:

Healing I think I agree is the worst of the group.   While the solution can be used to heal others, I think in comparison with the simple Bulletproof Vest it doesn't come out well.  The vest is cheaper in terms of XP and costs only 1 more resource to play down, but once it is out it soaks 4 damage without the need for spending actions.  The availability of loads of allies for seekers also softens the need for extra hp.  

I do agree with this, apart from the obvious timing limitations on the Vest.  But I also think it'll change over time - one of the reasons the Vest is so attractive right now is that there's basically no competition for the body slot right now.  There are what, 3 total cards that use it?  ArkhamDB forgot to even add it as an option for the filter...  But as the card pool grows and we get more options for that, it's going to get less appealing.

This is actually a big boost for the Solution that hasn't been mentioned.  They provide abilities that would often take up a hand or ally slot to get, which makes them far more flexible.

[mwmcintyre 271]

8 hours ago, Buhallin said:

Strange Solution: 1 resource, 4 actions, heals 6 (1.15)

Heals 8 damage, actually. And from any investigator at your location, not just yourself.

[Buhallin 4,563]

Ooh, I hadn't noticed that they had different counts on the charges.  So yeah, that takes it up to 1.375, which is nearly triple most of the other heals.

So yeah, I think we can quibble over whether upgraded healing is worth it in generally, but I think the improvement is respectable for the cost.

[shosuko 2,174]

I think they are all pretty appealing, especially considering you can get multiple charges.  This puts it clearly ahead of other options Seekers have for combat such as I've Got a Plan, which is strong but costs 3 resources for 1 attack.

The healing is even pretty impressive - but I agree the healing is the worst of them.  My reasoning that it is the worst isn't because it's a bad card... or even the xp cost.  My seeker has a surplus of xp currently as we've been running Delve Too Deep and have fired it off once or twice each mission so far...  but...
1) Healing in general is not really needed.  In an ideal world you won't take damage, so you won't need healing.  In a non-ideal world you will take a few hits and survive the mission with 1-2 health left.  IF the worst happens and you would be knocked out... generally healing wouldn't have saved you... and it slows you down, which can cost the mission as badly as getting knocked out.
2) It only heals health.  I would have appreciated the versatility of being able to recover sanity OR health more than the extra charge.  I tend to leave healing cards out because so many are limited to health.  In my experience I rarely die by health alone, so health recovery without sanity still leaves me to get knocked out, just by sanity instead of health.

Edited June 10, 2017 by shosuko

[Buhallin 4,563]

1 hour ago, shosuko said:

2) It only heals health.  I would have appreciated the versatility of being able to recover sanity OR health more than the extra charge.  I tend to leave healing cards out because so many are limited to health.  In my experience I rarely die by health alone, so health recovery without sanity still leaves me to get knocked out, just by sanity instead of health.

The flip side of this is that it's a Seeker card, and they're typically big on sanity but low on health.  The versatility would have been nice for tema support, to be sure, but if they were only going to get one damage is almost certainly the more important for the class.

[monorico 30]

I decided to get the Attack/Damage solution for my campaign. I tried it in "where doom awaits". Got it near the beginning of the game, but never really used it. Just sat there till the very end when a conglomeration of spheres showed up and my guardian didn't want to attack it with her machete. Then I killed it with all my charges... thanks auto fail.

There was a couple times I was thinking of using it... but the enemy had 4 or 5 fight. And as a seeker I really don't have any plus fight icons... Its a card I wanted to save for a final boss or elite enemy with lots of health, but they all have high fight and I have no really effective way to increase my fight. I was probably being too cautious using it, but that is the feeling I got. A little nervous drawing on a 5 fight monster, when I only have 3 charges and don't want to miss a 3 damage attack.

I did find myself wishing I had that Heal solution though. My guardian was running around killing everything (as normal) but her health got dangerously low... down to 1 health left. I found myself wishing I could do a one action, "heal 2", so that she could take an attack of opportunity if needed, or take a another hit and I wouldn't have to desperately try to kill a monster with my fire axe instead of investigating. Just the ability to take her from the brink of death, then move on, would have been nice. I was holding my breath every time she drew from the encounter deck, hoping it wasn't a encounter card that would deal damage.

I think it is worth 1 action, to mitigate the chance your guardian could drop and die at any moment, then you can continue investigating or other things with remaining actions.

 

[monorico 30]

I also think the Evade potion could be a good combo with a Springfield. If you have a guardian buddy who wants to get that card.

 

Edited June 10, 2017 by monorico