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Arcanis161

Wave VI pain with Vader

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SHIP: Imperial II 120
Darth Vader 36
Boarding Troopers 3
Electronic Countermeasures 7
SW-7 Ion Batteries 5
Avenger 5
TOTAL POINTS:176
 
SHIP: Raider II 48
Minister Tua 2
Boarding Troopers 3
Overload Pulse 8
Electronic Countermeasures 7
TOTAL POINTS:68
 
SHIP: Gozanti Cruisers 23
Comms Net 2
Suppressor 4
TOTAL POINTS:29
 
SHIP: Gozanti Cruisers 23
Director Isard 3
Slicer Tools 7
TOTAL POINTS:33
 
Howlrunner 16
TIE Advanced Squadron × 1 12
Sontir Fel 18
Mauler Mithel 15
Valen Rudor 13
Lambda Shuttle × 1 15
TOTAL POINTS:89
 
Objectives:
Advanced Gunnery
Planetary Ion Cannon
Dangerous Territory
 
Strip the opponent's ability to use tokens with Avenger and supporting ships, and possibly break their will to live.
 
Thoughts?

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2 hours ago, Church14 said:

I feel like SW-7 is unneeded on a ship with access to Vader rerolls. That would free up some for a bid or maybe those DCs

Extra damage. I'm already removing the defense tokens, so I don't needthe accuracies. Might as well turn them into straight damage.

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Will attest that SW7 is an auto-include for me on ISD-II's now that DTT's are a thing. SW7 + DTT even on non Avenger (but even more so on Avenger) is just too good for the points. DTT takes the swing out of the Reds, SW7 takes the swing out of the blues without sacrificing a dice.

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To be honest I'm not so sure that Boarding Troopers are that useful on an ISD given that at that range and the many opportunities in between almost no ship will survive either way. Seems better to use them elsewhere. Boarding Troops "might" be a deterrent to a close range  attacks, especially if you are first player, other than that a bit difficult to use.

 

I might also consider Boarding Engineers on the raider instead of Boarding Troops, spending a single token seem a bit underwhelming to me rather than flipping up two critical hits on a big capital ship.

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4 hours ago, jorgen_cab said:

To be honest I'm not so sure that Boarding Troopers are that useful on an ISD given that at that range and the many opportunities in between almost no ship will survive either way. Seems better to use them elsewhere. Boarding Troops "might" be a deterrent to a close range  attacks, especially if you are first player, other than that a bit difficult to use.

 

I might also consider Boarding Engineers on the raider instead of Boarding Troops, spending a single token seem a bit underwhelming to me rather than flipping up two critical hits on a big capital ship.

I appreciate the constructive criticism!

However, my logic behind the Boarding Troopers in the ISD was the combo. Boarding Troopers knocks out defense tokens, Avenger makes the opponent unable to use them, SW-(s turn now useless blue accuracies into damage, and Vader rerolls fickle reds. I guess in a way that makes it a close-range deterrent. I was mostly thinking it would instantly kill most ships in the game. I've seen a two ship list win as second player at Gencon that had an ISD, so with some careful maneuvering I should be able to one shot something. As far as killing stuff in between, I've honestly seen MC30s and larger survive front arc ISD Vader; heck, I've even seen a Gladiator do it.

Raider is mostly for important non-redundant tokens. I know when building it I picked Boarding Troopers before choosing to make it a Raider-II with Overload Pulse, but regardless the Raider-II would be playing more of an escort/support role to the Avenger, giving it targets before and after the Avenger uses its boarding parties (and staying alive much longer than most Raiders with Tua and ECMs). We may just have different playstyles, but I feel a more tanky Raider that's already helping the Avenger lends itself to more upgrades suiting that, instead of doing a good move by giving two crits.

Even with all of this, I have to admit, something's nagging at me. Nowhere in my (granted limited) look into Tournaments and Gencon have I seen Avenger with an Overload Pulse equipped Raider-II. I'm surprised since that alone seems like such a powerful combo. Why doesn't that regularly win games?

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3 hours ago, Arcanis161 said:

Even with all of this, I have to admit, something's nagging at me. Nowhere in my (granted limited) look into Tournaments and Gencon have I seen Avenger with an Overload Pulse equipped Raider-II. I'm surprised since that alone seems like such a powerful combo. Why doesn't that regularly win games?

Apparently, it's because the OP+Avenger combo dictates a specific activation order (OP ship activates first so as to use OP, then Avenger), as well as because since both ships must be in range of the intended target, it's fairly easy to determine which ship is in danger and move it out in between the activations of the OP-equipped ship and Avenger.

With the addition of Disposable Capacitors however, I think the combo may have a chance, since the OP ship can be at long range of a target, and thus usually not in a position to threaten it. Boarding Troopers also allow Avenger to be used even without relying on OP.

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Is it just better to run this with Screed? Why improve your statistical odds of getting the wombo-combo OP+Avenger setup, when you can just declare that it happens?

But Vader helps with other attack dice, too!

Okay, but is it 13 points better?

Edited by Nostromoid

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Why not just use an ISD-I? Put on Avenger, Boarding Troops, Captain Needa, SW-7s, and TRCs so on average you'll roll 9-12 damage with a concentrate fire command whereas with your ISD-II build you roll around 8-9. This mean you'll have to be close range, but with the points you save you can make a bid to go first so you can consistently just delete an enemy ship. And since your average damage went up your kill range just extended to include most medium ships and MC80s.

If you do this you're not really obligated to take Overload Pulse either, so maybe take a Demolisher with sensor teams and exp. launchers or even external racks.

Also, the reason you don't see Pulse + Avenger combos in competitive play is simply because it's not consistent or good enough. Combo-oriented lists often fall apart because they are extremely telegraphed and require a specific set of circumstances to work. However, with my suggestion you sacrifice the survivability of the ISD (since you don't have ECMs are going to be brawling at close range) for the ability to automatically delete an enemy ship in only one activation.

Who needs defense when you can just delete their ships in one attack? :D

If you don't like my ISD-I idea then my other suggestion would be dumping the raider and getting a Gozanti with Montferrat and Suppressor, it's basically the same thing if you put XI7s on the ISD-II.

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On 6/7/2017 at 5:01 PM, Nostromoid said:

Is it just better to run this with Screed? Why improve your statistical odds of getting the wombo-combo OP+Avenger setup, when you can just declare that it happens?

But Vader helps with other attack dice, too!

Okay, but is it 13 points better?

I figured I needed the firepower on the ISD. With Screed I can guarantee OP and 6 damage from the ISD. With Vader I have a high chance of OP and 8+ damage from the ISD. It's personal preference really.

 

On 6/8/2017 at 9:15 AM, GalacticFister said:

Why not just use an ISD-I? Put on Avenger, Boarding Troops, Captain Needa, SW-7s, and TRCs so on average you'll roll 9-12 damage with a concentrate fire command whereas with your ISD-II build you roll around 8-9. This mean you'll have to be close range, but with the points you save you can make a bid to go first so you can consistently just delete an enemy ship. And since your average damage went up your kill range just extended to include most medium ships and MC80s.

If you do this you're not really obligated to take Overload Pulse either, so maybe take a Demolisher with sensor teams and exp. launchers or even external racks.

Also, the reason you don't see Pulse + Avenger combos in competitive play is simply because it's not consistent or good enough. Combo-oriented lists often fall apart because they are extremely telegraphed and require a specific set of circumstances to work. However, with my suggestion you sacrifice the survivability of the ISD (since you don't have ECMs are going to be brawling at close range) for the ability to automatically delete an enemy ship in only one activation.

Who needs defense when you can just delete their ships in one attack? :D

If you don't like my ISD-I idea then my other suggestion would be dumping the raider and getting a Gozanti with Montferrat and Suppressor, it's basically the same thing if you put XI7s on the ISD-II.

Once I unpack my Star Wars Armada stuff, I'll give my fleet and your ISD-I idea a try. 

 

As far as combos go, yeah that always gets me. Armada is a miniatures strategy game that takes a lot of mechanics from deck-building games. The cards and my experience with Magic the Gathering always makes me want to combo stuff, even though I've had many more years of experience with strategy and tactics games.

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On 6/6/2017 at 5:57 AM, Arcanis161 said:
SHIP: Imperial II 120
Darth Vader 36
Boarding Troopers 3
Electronic Countermeasures 7
SW-7 Ion Batteries 5
Avenger 5
TOTAL POINTS:176
 
SHIP: Raider II 48
Minister Tua 2
Boarding Troopers 3
Overload Pulse 8
Electronic Countermeasures 7
TOTAL POINTS:68
 
SHIP: Gozanti Cruisers 23
Comms Net 2
Suppressor 4
TOTAL POINTS:29
 
SHIP: Gozanti Cruisers 23
Director Isard 3
Slicer Tools 7
TOTAL POINTS:33
 
Howlrunner 16
TIE Advanced Squadron × 1 12
Sontir Fel 18
Mauler Mithel 15
Valen Rudor 13
Lambda Shuttle × 1 15
TOTAL POINTS:89
 
Objectives:
Advanced Gunnery
Planetary Ion Cannon
Dangerous Territory
 
Strip the opponent's ability to use tokens with Avenger and supporting ships, and possibly break their will to live.
 
Thoughts?

As someone who's been running the Pulse Tap successfully since wave 2 released, lemme just make one suggestion, I know it's 3 points more, maybe move some things around, but give this fleet a try with the ISD outfitted as such. It breaks ships....


[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Admiral Screed  ( 26  points) 
 Avenger  ( 5  points) 
-  Captain Needa  ( 2  points) 
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points) 
-  Turbolaser Reroute Circuits  ( 7  points) 
-  SW 7 Ion Batteries  ( 5  points) 
= 179 total ship cost

Avenger means if you tapped 'em with OP off your raider every bit of damage counts, however, it's also important you don't leave it up to chance that you get that damage. Needa will replace your contain with an evade, making it so you can take Turbolaser reroutes, with screed and the SW7s... you will do a minimum of 7 damage from your front, every shot. That will kill just about any small or medium rebel ship. (and that's if you roll 4 blank reds) with a con fire this build peaks at 14 damage which can pop a liberty through it's front shields.... It averages at about 11-12 damage per shot.

I've had a massive amount of success with this build, give it a try sometime. 

Edited by Darth Sanguis

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11 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Admiral Screed  ( 26  points) 
 Avenger  ( 5  points) 
-  Captain Needa  ( 2  points) 
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points) 
-  Turbolaser Reroute Circuits  ( 7  points) 
-  SW 7 Ion Batteries  ( 5  points) 
= 179 total ship cost
 

Sanguis, you ever tried advanded projectors instead of ecm? 

I realized at worlds i only used ecm a very small amount of times, but i was consistabtly chipping into hull with 3-5 shields still up.

I made the change for the vassal tourney and it has felt like a hugw improvement, but figured i would see if i coukd increase my sample size of anecdotal evidence.

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