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Rhargar

Waiqar - possible answer to Daqan deathstars???

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Hello together, 

I've tried to build a list for my undeads, that can act as a counter for the death star lists from Daqan with Kari, big block of spearmen and golem and two units of riders, both with moment of inspiration.

Here is my list:

  • Infantry

    • Reanimate Archers

      2x1 Trays, Rank Discipline

    • Reanimate Archers

      2x1 Trays, Rank Discipline

    • Reanimates

      4x3 Trays, Aggressive Drummer, File Leader, Moment of Inspiration, Raven Tabards

  • Siege

    • Carrion Lancers

      2x2 Trays, Combat Ingenuity, Master Crafted Weapons

    • Carrion Lancers

      1 Tray

Please let me know, what you are thinking of this list and its potential.

Edited by Rhargar

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Quite decent! but I don't see it specially prepared against spearmen.

What to do against them? I've not been too sucessfull on that task, but I think that:

  • Reanimates can do a lot of damage, but in the 1 against 1 they often loose, so they should be an anvil to stop and decimate the spearmen and let the archers blight them. Don't forget that file leader makes your unit static if you try to use him all the time.
  • Archers are important to blight. Therefore I recommend combat ingenuity. A couple less dice on spearmen and they'll be much weaker. Don't forget that while engaged you produce panic to your units, so you won't want to shoot a lot of times, better few with a big blight production.
  • One of the main problems is their capability add 1 extra die, specially with the cheap citadel weaponsmaster. Ankaur maro with fortuna dice can kill him on an automatic roll, specially if he has violent forces. A lucky roll could even kill the heavy upgrade golem on a single strike! (2 rolls for accuracy+damage and a 2 damage modifier). Spearmen are very weak without those upgrades. Even if the overpowered rune golem survives, a good reanimates unit is match against spearmen that roll 2 dice.

What would I use that big reanimate unit against? Againts enemies with multiple small units. Golems, 2x1 or 2x2 oathsworn cavalry, kari, all these units should fear such a big reanimates unit.

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Comparisons say that it isn't expensive:

Moment of inspiration: white die and cannot be killed asi it's a non miniature upgrade card, but exhausts the card so you'll rarely use it more than 2 or 3 times. 6 points.

Kari: blue die (not too killy, doesn't profit the rune golem that much) useful skill, 18 points.

Ardus: white die, circumstancial skill (can be useful sometimes but that unit rarely gets much energy and you need near friendly unit with skills to do anything) and the most expensive. 23 points.

The key on CWM is that he adds the perfect die to the perfect configuration: red die has the best average damage. In a unit that generally switches between threat 4 and 5 it's a big, big profitable. He is hard to be sniped down, he has defense 3 and can be raised to 4 in an emergency if you equip and ready the shield wall.

In comparison and in the circumstances that it's playable I find it cheap, specially because it perfectly suits the front line rune golem upgrade. For 14 points your spearmen unit does more than the double damage than than they would. Isn't it cheap? Besides from the raw cost I'd call an upgrade card cheap or expensive based on the general effect and the likelyness to be profitable, rather than the point cost.

CI is also very cheap for its effect. Archers are there to blight, the damage they do is generally just a side effect (generally 2 or 4 damage per shoot, rarely changes a game). They multiplicate the desired effect more than twice: the blight. Without CI you get 0 blights more often than 1 and 2 is almost impossible. With CI you have 1 granted and often 2. Even sometimes you can do 3. 

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I think your last point about Ci makes my argument stronger and your comparing the wrong things.

Ci is only 6 points and for that your practically guaranteed a minimum 1 blight and in my experience more often 2 blight, which is good that we agree on that. Because my next point is the kicker.

So that we are clear, that's removing 1 and more often 2 dice from the dice pool for 6 points vs adding 1 die to the dice pool for 8 points. You think that's equal?

And if you remove all the Spearman's dice from their pool then that front line rune golem is a worthless piece of rock since your not rolling any dice!

Most lists include 2 groups of archers with CI so that's at minimum 2 blight and an average 4 blight a turn. Ergo the Spearmen never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever get to attack.

CWM should be at most 4 points and I reckon 3 is probably closer to its real cost, since its only half as good as CI. (Alternatively I'm happy for an increase to the cost of CI to 16 points - just saying).

BTW I was reading a post on Gameboard geek where a play tester said that CI was available to both factions during testing. I wonder why they changed it to Waiqar only.

 

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That irks me about what the playtester said. Part of the non-disclosure agreement is to never reveal what previous versions of the game/rules were like, and that agreement is in effect even after the rest of the contract expires. Talking about previous versions makes for a disgruntled player base as everyone argues about how things should have been instead of focusing on the game as it is.

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51 minutes ago, Asmo said:

I think your last point about Ci makes my argument stronger and your comparing the wrong things.

Ci is only 6 points and for that your practically guaranteed a minimum 1 blight and in my experience more often 2 blight, which is good that we agree on that. Because my next point is the kicker.

So that we are clear, that's removing 1 and more often 2 dice from the dice pool for 6 points vs adding 1 die to the dice pool for 8 points. You think that's equal?

And if you remove all the Spearman's dice from their pool then that front line rune golem is a worthless piece of rock since your not rolling any dice!

Most lists include 2 groups of archers with CI so that's at minimum 2 blight and an average 4 blight a turn. Ergo the Spearmen never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever get to attack.

CWM should be at most 4 points and I reckon 3 is probably closer to its real cost, since its only half as good as CI. (Alternatively I'm happy for an increase to the cost of CI to 16 points - just saying).

BTW I was reading a post on Gameboard geek where a play tester said that CI was available to both factions during testing. I wonder why they changed it to Waiqar only.

 

Several points:

  1. I have a single RA expansion box. I have therefore only 1 card. And many people also do. My wallet is scorched.
  2. RA are not hard to neutralize. Kari can do them damage an pile a few inspiration tokens before. A couple of attacks should be enough to kill an 8 wounds unit with just average results, 3 if not so lucky.
  3. If archers don't help in the flanks it's very easy to loose against kari or oathsworn cavalry. You should engage before the flanking units are destroyed.
  4. There's absolute no grant to get so many blights. In most of my rolls I place a single blight. Often 2 rarely 3, but there's no grant.
  5. OSC can engage units on a distance of 6!
  6. The unit engaged against the spearmen suffers a lot of panic and can suffer serious morale tests if attacked.

The archer spam requieres a minimum of 5 units: 2 archers, 2 flank protectors and generally an average sized reanimates block

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Something you are missing Ci is not removing 2 dice, the ability on the archers is, Normally this ability will remove 0-1 dice, but with Ci it removes 1-2 dice, so you are paying 6 pts to remove an additional 0-1 dice, this seems fair. So yeah. its pretty much equal.

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