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rowdyoctopus

Tips for a GM on handling a character prone to overusing harm?

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On 6/5/2017 at 4:00 PM, rowdyoctopus said:

I have a player with a character that has a FR of 4.  He regularly rolls 15+ damage on Harm checks.  He is about to dip to the darkside, which is narrative punishment enough, but it doesn't change the fact that combat encounters are difficult to balance.

Just curious if anyone has tips for creative ways to provide a challenge to someone that can do 15-20 points of damage through soak every time they take a turn.  Our party has 7 players, only 1 real lightsaber, but are still strong enough to hold their own in combat.

Harm is NOT inobvious. Everyone else shooting at him to the exclusion of others is more than appropriate. Even if it's just the force choke mode, it's obvious... Outstretched hand, and Joe goes down... Joe's buddies might not believe it the morning after, but at the moment, when Joe's gagging on air, and it started the moment That Guy There Pointed and Squeezed at him... Disbelief or no, it's blastering time. Or Thermal Detonator Time. In numbers.

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16 hours ago, AK_Aramis said:

Harm is NOT inobvious. Everyone else shooting at him to the exclusion of others is more than appropriate. Even if it's just the force choke mode, it's obvious... Outstretched hand, and Joe goes down... Joe's buddies might not believe it the morning after, but at the moment, when Joe's gagging on air, and it started the moment That Guy There Pointed and Squeezed at him... Disbelief or no, it's blastering time. Or Thermal Detonator Time. In numbers.

Well, For the record, Force choke is accomplished with Bind, using DSPs to power it resulting in wound damage. 

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1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Well, For the record, Force choke is accomplished with Bind, using DSPs to power it resulting in wound damage. 

None of the offense is invisible. It's not like Force Lightning, where it's unmissable, but everything on screen shows almost all force use as requiring a somatic component when it affects others.

Looking JUST at Ep IV - 

  • Vader, in an imposing stance, "Tear this ship apart! Bring me the passengers, I want them alive!" 
  • Ben touches luke to restore his consciousness
  • Ben waives his hand with each phrase on Influence
  • Vader raises a hand to force choke the general. The other hand goes to his hip. Looks like two force powers at once - the Social - Vader just seems to inflate a bit just before the force choke, then the predicate violence of the force choke, followed by the Social roll
  • Luke has to cover his eyes to use the force to sense the remote.
  • Ben shakes a finger to make a noise "over there"... distracting the stormtroopers
  • Ben holds his saber vertical to transition to force ghost.
  • Luke closes his eyes to hit the target.

Ep V, we get more.

  • Vader and luke both point to move things with the force. Even Yoda does. On Hoth, Bespin, Endor. 
  • Force leap requires an actual leap in most shots; There's one where we don't see the start of the leap (luke in the Carbon Freeze pit)
  • Luke has to close his eyes and stand in a centering pose to "reach out with your feelings"
  • Vader has to stretch out his hand to absorb/dissipate Han's blaster shots.

It's a function of SW as a visual medium - but it's also thus an artifact of the setting: almost all non-sensory uses involve the person doing it to make a motion so the Audience can recognize who did what. 

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1 minute ago, AK_Aramis said:

None of the offense is invisible. It's not like Force Lightning, where it's unmissable, but everything on screen shows almost all force use as requiring a somatic component when it affects others.

Looking JUST at Ep IV - 

  • Vader, in an imposing stance, "Tear this ship apart! Bring me the passengers, I want them alive!" 
  • Ben touches luke to restore his consciousness
  • Ben waives his hand with each phrase on Influence
  • Vader raises a hand to force choke the general. The other hand goes to his hip. Looks like two force powers at once - the Social - Vader just seems to inflate a bit just before the force choke, then the predicate violence of the force choke, followed by the Social roll
  • Luke has to cover his eyes to use the force to sense the remote.
  • Ben shakes a finger to make a noise "over there"... distracting the stormtroopers
  • Ben holds his saber vertical to transition to force ghost.
  • Luke closes his eyes to hit the target.

Ep V, we get more.

  • Vader and luke both point to move things with the force. Even Yoda does. On Hoth, Bespin, Endor. 
  • Force leap requires an actual leap in most shots; There's one where we don't see the start of the leap (luke in the Carbon Freeze pit)
  • Luke has to close his eyes and stand in a centering pose to "reach out with your feelings"
  • Vader has to stretch out his hand to absorb/dissipate Han's blaster shots.

It's a function of SW as a visual medium - but it's also thus an artifact of the setting: almost all non-sensory uses involve the person doing it to make a motion so the Audience can recognize who did what. 

Technically, no, you don't "need" somatic components to use the Force to affect others. Rey certainly didn't when she mind wammied the storm trooper to release her. Nomi Sunrider certainly didn't when using her Battle Influence ability (Canonically an aspect of  Battle Meditation, but considered a use of the Emotion upgrade of Influence under FFG) when turning enemies against one another. 

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8 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Technically, no, you don't "need" somatic components to use the Force to affect others. Rey certainly didn't when she mind wammied the storm trooper to release her. Nomi Sunrider certainly didn't when using her Battle Influence ability (Canonically an aspect of  Battle Meditation, but considered a use of the Emotion upgrade of Influence under FFG) when turning enemies against one another. 

Rey massively changes her body tension while attempting it.

I have no clue who Sunrider is.

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On 6/11/2017 at 4:40 PM, AK_Aramis said:

Rey massively changes her body tension while attempting it.

I have no clue who Sunrider is.

Nomi Sunrider. She was one of the main characters in the  Tales of the Jedi series. 

As for Rey, that had nothing to do with any "necessary somatic component" to her use of Influence. All she was doing  was calming herself down and focusing after her first attempts failed because of her anxiety and lack of focus. 

Edited by Tramp Graphics

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Darth Traya didn't do anything for that force wield 9 light saber part!! :P 

Meanwhile in virtually every other piece written, drawn, or in video, yes there is some form of somatic component. We see it in the prequels, Clone Wars, Rebels, comics.

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True; but if someone is draining the life from several people at once, it's going to be fairly obvious who the culpred is very quickly. Even if they cant' figure it out; the entire party as a whole should be considered a bigger target. 

 

The other thing with a FR 4 Character with a strong force power is two things; A give the group a reason to spilt up frequently to delegate tasks down, the second that a force user that obvious will attract Vader and it might be time to bring the hammer down. The 501st, Vader and everything. Have the emperor's hand hound them as assassins, striking out at individual's that leave the pack e.c.t. Your characters have gained powers enough to enter the chess board, it's now time to bring the queen down to break their backs like Bane broke batman. Not saying this encounter should be the end of everyone, but provide characterisation and an ultimate agenda; the party cannot be free while the sith exist.

(And then a farmboy beats them all to the punch! XD)

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10 hours ago, LordBritish said:

True; but if someone is draining the life from several people at once, it's going to be fairly obvious who the culpred is very quickly. Even if they cant' figure it out; the entire party as a whole should be considered a bigger target. 

 

The other thing with a FR 4 Character with a strong force power is two things; A give the group a reason to spilt up frequently to delegate tasks down, the second that a force user that obvious will attract Vader and it might be time to bring the hammer down. The 501st, Vader and everything. Have the emperor's hand hound them as assassins, striking out at individual's that leave the pack e.c.t. Your characters have gained powers enough to enter the chess board, it's now time to bring the queen down to break their backs like Bane broke batman. Not saying this encounter should be the end of everyone, but provide characterisation and an ultimate agenda; the party cannot be free while the sith exist.

(And then a farmboy beats them all to the punch! XD)

 Dude, whoop their butt, baby! Send their characters  to the afterlife!!!!

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48 minutes ago, Matt Skywalker said:

 

 Dude, whoop their butt, baby! Send their characters  to the afterlife!!!!

XDDD

In all seriousness though; I think all force sensitive PC's should face the terror of Darth Vader at least once if they are making a lot of racket. With the full support of the 501st to spilt them up it could very rapidly convince them that a direct show of force would not be in their best interest. Leaving a long line of bodies drained of their life essence cries out to get the Dark Lord of the Sith involved personally. It is his job to ensure that anyone with advanced experience of the force has to be made to become an inquistor, or most likely die. 

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9 hours ago, LordBritish said:

XDDD

In all seriousness though; I think all force sensitive PC's should face the terror of Darth Vader at least once if they are making a lot of racket. With the full support of the 501st to spilt them up it could very rapidly convince them that a direct show of force would not be in their best interest. Leaving a long line of bodies drained of their life essence cries out to get the Dark Lord of the Sith involved personally. It is his job to ensure that anyone with advanced experience of the force has to be made to become an inquistor, or most likely die. 

I was just reinforcing your point

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On 2017-06-15 at 2:04 PM, LordBritish said:




Leaving a long line of bodies drained of their life essence cries out to get the Dark Lord of the Sith involved personally. It is his job to ensure that anyone with advanced experience of the force has to be made to become an inquistor, or most likely die. 






One of them might also decide that whoever is willing and able to do that would make a fine apprentice, making "take them alive" an imperative - and any further carnage along the way seen as a further example of their potential.



Would that potentially throw canon out the window? Sure, and that's exactly what PCs are there to do.

Edited by Garran

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On 6/13/2017 at 0:06 PM, Tramp Graphics said:

Nomi Sunrider. She was one of the main characters in the  Tales of the Jedi series. 

As for Rey, that had nothing to do with any "necessary somatic component" to her use of Influence. All she was doing  was calming herself down and focusing after her first attempts failed because of her anxiety and lack of focus. 

So, not canon.

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On 6/21/2017 at 6:05 PM, Matt Skywalker said:

How could it

Was using SW d6 1E+RC...

Including the combined fire rule and scaling.  I used the stormtrooper rule, not the proper guns rule, because the target was a PC. So 8d skill (vader's elite flagship), +4d Fire control, all capped at 1's to hit.  So, 60 turbolasers is +59 to hit... 12d+59. I rolled poorly. ISTR a 62. 

Chewa was rolling 7d+2 sense, doubled for a force die, less 1d because he was holding on his telekinesis so he had air. He parried. Rolled a 64 on 13d6+4.

The reflect roll hit, too.  

As I said, ended badly. PC alone in space with a couple cubic meters of air, and Vader in similar situation...

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On 6/20/2017 at 9:33 AM, AK_Aramis said:

I've done that. Didn't end well.

Was this my Ithorian? I thought it was fine. The Empire and the Rebel Alliance just didn't understand that there were differences between ones philosophical teachings and ones political leanings.

 

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The Inquisitorious would be pleased to learn that there is essentially a force sensitive vampire running around, send some after him.

Also, make the other players feel more than a little unsettled when he's draining people into a husk of a sapient, because Holy firfeck there's a vampire on the team!

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8 hours ago, pnewman15 said:

Was this my Ithorian? I thought it was fine. The Empire and the Rebel Alliance just didn't understand that there were differences between ones philosophical teachings and ones political leanings.

 

No, I don't remember your Ithorian at all. 

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Here are my thoughts on it:

What would the other characters in the rest of the party think of him using these power? if they were all trained by a Jedi and are working with a Jedi Mentor. Some time the other players can be the best deterrent of behavior.

What does his mentor think of him using these powers, if he is a Jedi the Dark side goes directly against his training. 

Has the rest of the party fallen to the dark side as well with watching him do these horrible things and not taken action to help, that is conflict worthy. 

The  other area to effect the party is in the social aspect, people are going to quit talking to the group knowing they have someone sadistically killing people.  Not dealing with them, making any deal worse for the rest of the group.  

The locals town would ask them or leave, or directly report them to the empire when they see his actions.  Who comes to deal with them, an Inquisitor, or Vader, or a whole battalion with on their Star Destroyer.  

 

 

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