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Prepare for War

Depiction of Female Characters in this game

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14 minutes ago, Yogo Gohei said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_(magazine)

How many of the men on that list fit the "Muscle bound, arms as big as tree trunks, stoic men" stereotype?  The only one I notice is "The Rock".  Maaaaybe Chris Hemsworth, but that's reaching a bit.

Everyone else... not so much.

 

Everyone on that list for the past 10+ years has had a sculpted well toned physique.

Edit: The only one in the last 10 years shorter than 6' tall is johnny depp, who is almost 6' tall.

Edited by McDermott

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20 minutes ago, Yogo Gohei said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_(magazine)

How many of the men on that list fit the "Muscle bound, arms as big as tree trunks, stoic men" stereotype?  The only one I notice is "The Rock".  Maaaaybe Chris Hemsworth, but that's reaching a bit.

Everyone else... not so much.

 

Well I can tell you for sure almost none of them have unhealthy physique, and almost all of them have lean/muscular well toned bodies.

Just like most of the samurai depicted in L5R(arms big as tree trunks are to be seen in crab clan almost exclusively).

All of them are also powerful and charismatic.

And it's not like man dream of being green Hulk over Johnny Depp or whomever else u choose ;)

So yeah I would say most of men in L5R fall into powerful strong and attractive category. That is not to say that there aren't many examples of old/not totally powerful men(or old/not classicaly beautiful women).

It's just a shame that sexy depictions of women is regarded as something potentially harmful(if not overdone of course). 

Edited by BordOne

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6 minutes ago, BordOne said:

Well I can tell you for sure almost none of them have unhealthy physique, and almost all of them have lean/muscular well toned bodies.

Just like most of the samurai depicted in L5R(arms big as tree trunks are to be seen in crab clan almost exclusively).

All of them are also powerful and charismatic.

And it's not like man dream of being green Hulk over Johnny Depp or whomever else u choose ;)

So yeah I would say most of men in L5R fall into powerful strong and attractive category. That is not to say that there aren't many examples of old/not totally powerful men(or old/not classicaly beautiful women) 

To clarify, I was responding to something pretty specific above.  I could have been clearer.  Obviously "sexiest man alive" is going to be a pretty good looking guy who is in pretty awesome shape.

Has that ever really described Johnny Depp?  How the heck did he get in there?

Edited by Yogo Gohei

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Just now, Yogo Gohei said:

To clarify, I was responding to something pretty specific above.  I could have been clearer.  Obviously "sexiest man alive" is going to be a pretty good looking guy who is in pretty awesome shape.

Has that ever really described Johnny Depp?  How the heck did he get in there?

He's almost 6 feet tall and actually in pretty good shape for someone in his fifties, plus coasting off being a teen heartthrob throughout the 80's and 90's.

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11 minutes ago, McDermott said:

Everyone on that list for the past 10+ years has had a sculpted well toned physique.

Edit: The only one in the last 10 years shorter than 6' tall is johnny depp, who is almost 6' tall.

Matt Damon and Johnny Depp are both 5'10" I guess, but yes, generally the Sexist Man Alive is around a 6' average height which is the average height for white males in the US.

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7 minutes ago, Yogo Gohei said:

To clarify, I was responding to something pretty specific above.  I could have been clearer.  Obviously "sexiest man alive" is going to be a pretty good looking guy who is in pretty awesome shape.

Has that ever really described Johnny Depp?  How the heck did he get in there?

Wait I don't understand... Weren't you responding to my comment that women want strong and powerful man?

I think the list you quoted proves that point.

I just used him as average strong and powerful man, which i guess most man would like to be over 5 meter tall beast full of muscle.

And I feel most of depictions of men in L5R are more similar to Johnny Depp than hands like tree trunks kind of a guy - which means they cater to female fantasies too :P

Edited by BordOne

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4 minutes ago, BordOne said:

Wait I don't understand... Weren't you responding to my comment that women want strong and powerful man?

My response was intended to show that there is room between "The Rock" and "Danny Devito", with male power fantasy being closer to "The Rock" with women's idea of "sexy" being somewhere in the middle.

And, yes, that didn't even remotely come across.  At all.  I am bad at the internet.

Edited by Yogo Gohei

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5 minutes ago, McDermott said:

No, average height of a white male in america is 5'9.   

 

Average height in the US is 5'9", average height for white non-Hispanic males in the US is 5'10". My apologies for the previous incorrect figure.

Either way, I don't understand why this is an issue at all.

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7 minutes ago, Yogo Gohei said:

My response was intended to show that there is room between "The Rock" and "Danny Devito", and with male power fantasy being closer to "The Rock" with women's idea of "sexy" being somewhere in the middle.

And, yes, that didn't even remotely come across.  At all.  I am bad at the internet.

While I agree with you that male power fantasy might be closer to "The Rock", but women idea of "sexy" is much more closer to it than to "Danny Devito".

My whole point here is that women mostly like physically strong men with a lot of power and social status(which can come from just looking powerful like on card depictions), which are the man that are mostly portrayed in L5R.

Which in turn means that L5R art does not only cater to male fantasies as you claimed but to female's also. Are we on the same page? :P

Edited by BordOne

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2 minutes ago, Danwarr said:

Average height in the US is 5'9", average height for white non-Hispanic males in the US is 5'10". My apologies for the previous incorrect figure.

Either way, I don't understand why this is an issue at all.

Because every single one of the people on the sexiest men alive list in the past 10 years is overall larger and more toned/muscular than most of the people of their demographic and the general argument seems to be that if they're big and muscular it must be a male power fantasy?  

 

Edit: also dave willis as an argument?  Really?

Edited by McDermott

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1 minute ago, McDermott said:

Because every single one of the people on the sexiest men alive list in the past 10 years is overall larger and more toned/muscular than most of the people of their demographic and the general argument seems to be that if they're big and muscular it must be a male power fantasy?  

I mean, you talking about a sexiest man alive contest for a magazine, what is anyone else expecting? Big and strong has been the male ideal for most cultures going back to ancient civilizations.

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1 minute ago, WHW said:

Image result for objectification of women batman comic

I would just like to say that my wife's favorite scene in all the Marvel movies is when Captain America flexes his bicep and holds the helicopter down in Civil War.  She also has a huge crush on Green Bay Packers LB Clay Matthews. 

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8 minutes ago, WHW said:

Image result for objectification of women batman comic

I mean it's a funny strip, but her depiction of batman is almost exactly the same as the DC's(other than lips and eyes thrown in as a joke), albeit less detailed. But I can concede that DC and Marvel have some unrealistic musculature depictions(if the girls don't like muscles then what DO they like xD)

What does it have to do with much more realistic L5R art tho?

And it's not like we don't have some more effeminate men in Crane clan as well xd

Edited by BordOne

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Just now, Danwarr said:

I mean, you talking about a sexiest man alive contest for a magazine, what is anyone else expecting? Big and strong has been the male ideal for most cultures going back to ancient civilizations.

And somewhat unsurprisingly the male "ideal" dovetails in with what (im not going to throw out a term like most here ) a significant chunk of the female population finds attractive.  Which erodes the argument that its all about male power fantasy, an argument that kind of negates the concept of women as sexual beings with their own desires and attractions. All this completely ignoring the idea of what gay men may or may not find attractive as well. 

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1 minute ago, McDermott said:

And somewhat unsurprisingly the male "ideal" dovetails in with what (im not going to throw out a term like most here ) a significant chunk of the female population finds attractive.  Which erodes the argument that its all about male power fantasy, an argument that kind of negates the concept of women as sexual beings with their own desires and attractions. All this completely ignoring the idea of what gay men may or may not find attractive as well. 

Ah ok. I see what you're say. I actually think we're on the same page here. Apologies.

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3 minutes ago, BordOne said:

What does it have to do with much more realistic L5R art tho?

Art should never be realistic, because otherwise why not just use a photograph? (And photos themselves, of course, are actually never realistic, because framing, lighting, post-production editing, and a number of other techniques mean what you see is not what was actually there).

Art should serve a purpose in engaging your emotions, telling a story, or otherwise presenting a worldview. A distressing tendency since photography was invented was the belief that visual arts should be judged on the scale that more "realistic" is "better". It's not. That's an entirely separate matrix to look at art by. If we limit it to just card art for LCGs, I'm much more interested if the piece has good composition, tells a story, has excellent linework, and other signs of craft, rather than how photo-like it is.

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14 minutes ago, Gaffa said:

Art should never be realistic, because otherwise why not just use a photograph? (And photos themselves, of course, are actually never realistic, because framing, lighting, post-production editing, and a number of other techniques mean what you see is not what was actually there).

Art should serve a purpose in engaging your emotions, telling a story, or otherwise presenting a worldview. A distressing tendency since photography was invented was the belief that visual arts should be judged on the scale that more "realistic" is "better". It's not. That's an entirely separate matrix to look at art by. If we limit it to just card art for LCGs, I'm much more interested if the piece has good composition, tells a story, has excellent linework, and other signs of craft, rather than how photo-like it is.

You don't understand me, I like modern art :P

What I am saying there is that depictions of men in L5R are more realistic and thus respond not only to male power fantasies but also to what women find attractive in guys which is physical strength and social power(the comic implies DC comics only appeal to male power fantasy which I don't even totally agree with).

Guys in the beginning of the thread were also making this claim talking about L5R setting with which I disagree even more.

Edit: I mean we can pretend that strong powerful men are something women don't like, and it's all just catering to "male power fantasy" which women don't enjoy, but I can hardly imagine other way of depicting man that would be more satysfying for women.

Edited by BordOne

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15 minutes ago, BordOne said:

Edit: I mean we can pretend that strong powerful men are something women don't like, and it's all just catering to "male power fantasy" which women don't enjoy, but I can hardly imagine other way of depicting man that would be more satysfying for women.

While you seem to be a nice enough fellow, the limits of your imagination are part of the whole problem with female representation in all media and in jobs. It's not our job or responsibility to tell women what they should find attractive (and since women are human beings, each one will have a pretty wide ranging idea of what she prefers as being attractive in the first place). It's rather like those legislative sessions on female healthcare where twelve people sit down to write laws dealing exclusively with women, and not one of those people has a uterus.

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