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Schmiegel

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For purposes of "Fly", is there a list that anyone has seen anywhere describing what is considered an "obstacle" that a figure can fly over without suffering any effect? The rules state that a dart field, scything blades and water cannot be jumped. Can they be flown over? And what about a boulder? Thank you!

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You can fly over any obstacle, if it is a damaging one, then you wont suffer the effects of it.  The only stipulation is that you cannot end your movement on an obstacle that blocks movement....like water and rubble. 

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Schmiegel said:

For purposes of "Fly", is there a list that anyone has seen anywhere describing what is considered an "obstacle" that a figure can fly over without suffering any effect? The rules state that a dart field, scything blades and water cannot be jumped. Can they be flown over? And what about a boulder? Thank you!

+1 for what Parathion said.

Traps like the dart field and scything blades can be flown over without effect, however, if the monster stops moving on one of those spaces, it will get hit normally.

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Since we're discussing flight, what restrictions does it let you get around? Acrobat (per the GLoAQ) lets you open a chest while a monster is on it. Presumably flight does the same. Acrobat does not let you attack while sharing a space with another figure, and presumably flight does not either.

What about manning stations in Sea of Blood? There's no rule that stops a figure from manning a station that's already occupied by another figure, but it seems like there should be. Otherwise it's impossible to keep enemies (or Zyla) from flying over and dropping your anchor, steering you into rocks, etc.

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@Steve-O: From the basic rules: 

A flying figure may end its turn in a space containing an obstacle that inflicts damage without effect. 

@ James: Opening chests while another figure is on it, is the one thing that is not allowed for Acrobats or Flyers.

@ Thunder: Why should there be an exception? Was this stated in the WoD rules?

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The WoD rules have a section for "obstacles," where it has rules for mud and lava, and a separate section for "traps," where it describes scything blades, dart fields, and rolling boulders.  I'm not aware of any reason that Fly would protect you from them (if it bothers you thematically, you can imagine that they're floor-to-ceiling).

I'm also not aware of any case in which a figure with Fly could move through any space safely but would take damage if they end their movement on it.  "A flying figure may end its turn in a space containing an obstacle that inflicts damage without effect." (JitD rules p.22)  (And anything that's not an obstacle, Fly doesn't protect you from.)

I vaguely recall reading somewhere that figures with Fly might still be harmed by terrain if they're forced into it via an effect like Knockback, rather than moving into it under their own power, but I can't cite that and it may be wrong.

 

 

There's also this, from the FAQ (p.7, and again on p.12), which covers props introduced in RtL and ToI (after the rulebooks stopped distinguishing between obstacles and other terrain):

Q: Do the props "Sarcophagus", "Table", "Bed", "Fountain", "Throne", "Bone Heap", "Giant Mushrooms", "Tree" and "Ice" count as obstacles (for the effects of Acrobat and others)?
A: Yes.

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Antistone said:

The WoD rules have a section for "obstacles," where it has rules for mud and lava, and a separate section for "traps," where it describes scything blades, dart fields, and rolling boulders.  I'm not aware of any reason that Fly would protect you from them (if it bothers you thematically, you can imagine that they're floor-to-ceiling).

I'm also not aware of any case in which a figure with Fly could move through any space safely but would take damage if they end their movement on it.  "A flying figure may end its turn in a space containing an obstacle that inflicts damage without effect." (JitD rules p.22)  (And anything that's not an obstacle, Fly doesn't protect you from.)

I vaguely recall reading somewhere that figures with Fly might still be harmed by terrain if they're forced into it via an effect like Knockback, rather than moving into it under their own power, but I can't cite that and it may be wrong.

 

 

There's also this, from the FAQ (p.7, and again on p.12), which covers props introduced in RtL and ToI (after the rulebooks stopped distinguishing between obstacles and other terrain):

Q: Do the props "Sarcophagus", "Table", "Bed", "Fountain", "Throne", "Bone Heap", "Giant Mushrooms", "Tree" and "Ice" count as obstacles (for the effects of Acrobat and others)?
A: Yes.

Antistone said:

The WoD rules have a section for "obstacles," where it has rules for mud and lava, and a separate section for "traps," where it describes scything blades, dart fields, and rolling boulders.  I'm not aware of any reason that Fly would protect you from them (if it bothers you thematically, you can imagine that they're floor-to-ceiling).

I'm also not aware of any case in which a figure with Fly could move through any space safely but would take damage if they end their movement on it.  "A flying figure may end its turn in a space containing an obstacle that inflicts damage without effect." (JitD rules p.22)  (And anything that's not an obstacle, Fly doesn't protect you from.)

snip

There's also this, from the FAQ (p.7, and again on p.12), which covers props introduced in RtL and ToI (after the rulebooks stopped distinguishing between obstacles and other terrain):

Q: Do the props "Sarcophagus", "Table", "Bed", "Fountain", "Throne", "Bone Heap", "Giant Mushrooms", "Tree" and "Ice" count as obstacles (for the effects of Acrobat and others)?
A: Yes.

 

 

+1

DJitD  pg16. Props are the overall classification and Obstacles a subclassification of Props. Other Props is the other subclassification and starts on pg 17. Treasure starts on pg18 but is separate from Props.
WoD has New Props split into Obstacles and Traps on pg4.
AoD has New Props split into Obstacles and Traps on pg7.

Post AoD we have needed the FAQ to confirm which new props are obstacles (non have yet been traps that I can think of).

Fly
Figures with the Fly ability may move through enemy figures and obstacles as if they weren't there. However, flying figures cannot end their movement in a space containing another figure or an obstacle that blocks movement. A flying figure may end its turn in a space containing an obstacle that inflicts damage without effect.

No mention of traps. Fly offers no protection from Traps!

As an aside, Boulders and Crushing Walls count as obstacles for the purposes of crushing block but are other wise traps, so cannot be flown over (floor to ceiling obviously).

@ Jonny WS
The replies are to Steve-O who claimed that traps could be ignored and, to a lesser extent, Parathion's first reply which seemed to indicate you could fly past traps without effect, though he may not have meant it like that.

 

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Parathion said:

@ James: Opening chests while another figure is on it, is the one thing that is not allowed for Acrobats or Flyers.

Where are you getting that from?  Is it in the FAQ somewhere, or am I just being dumb and missed it in the rules?

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Kartigan said:

Parathion said:

 

@ James: Opening chests while another figure is on it, is the one thing that is not allowed for Acrobats or Flyers.

 

 

Where are you getting that from?  Is it in the FAQ somewhere, or am I just being dumb and missed it in the rules?

The rulebook says you can't open a chest while another figure is on it. I was misreading the GLoAQ, which says you can take treasure from under monsters, but does not specifically override the "no chests" rule.

 

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So that would be option number 2 then, I'm dumb and blind :D.  Thanks for pointing that out guys, we were playing that wrong.  That seems better though, Zyla and Acrobat seemed a bit OP with the way we were playing.

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Corbon said:


As an aside, Boulders and Crushing Walls count as obstacles for the purposes of crushing block but are other wise traps, so cannot be flown over (floor to ceiling obviously).

 

Well, Boulders and Crushing Walls cannot be flown over due to their description in the rules: e.g. Boulders block line of sight and are
treated as a wall for purposes of blocking line of sight, attacks, and movement.

Traps still can be flown over, though you are right in emphasizing that Fly / Acrobat offer no protection against them.

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Parathion said:

Traps still can be flown over,

If by that you mean "they don't block movement in the first place."

It's still a very misleading thing to say, since traps affect flying figures exactly the same as non-flying figures in all respects.

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This was directed towards Corbon´s statement that Boulders etc. couldn´t be flown over since they are Traps.

I guessed anyone reading this thread should have been able to grasp that.

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I can't see where you are getting this statement that says a figure with fly cannot move past a crushing wall or boulder.  Yes, they block line of site, movement, and attacks...but fly states that you may move through any obstacle which blocks movement.  This is reading and understanding RAW. 

There is a quest in the WoD book that has a ruling which states flying monsters (or a hero) could move past the boulder, and are not affected by the boulders movement.  

Likewise, could a hero with the acrobat skill move through these obstacles?  I believe the answer is yes.   Unless otherwise stated by an FAQ or a FFG staff member ruling, I will continue to play as I always have. 

One more note, in the contents section of the WoD rule book, it states that boulders are deadly moving obstacles.  key word there is Obstacle. 

 

I also don't see where the logic is coming from that people assume that the wall and boulder are floor to ceiling...I also know the saying "Descent + logic = madness"   But...by the logic of some people, then that would make it possible for a giant to stand in a 4-space pit and not be harmed by a boulder or crushing wall.   If you ask me, the Giant in Descent is probably the tallest monster.    A pit is deep enough for a giant to stand (or duck and cover) but also deep enough for any hero to easily climb out of? 

Again.  Logic + Descent = madness. 

That's just my two cents.  :)  

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Well, RAW is "Boulders block line of sight and are treated as a wall for purposes of blocking line of sight, attacks, and movement."

So, you are saying that you let a Flyer / Acrobat move through walls as well? Wow, that´s real madness, and it is even lacking Logic.
 

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I suppose you are right.  "treated as a wall" means just that.  I guess I just didn't like it when people assumed it was floor to ceiling...lol  It didn't sit well with me.

My bad.  :)

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Rolling boulders and crushing walls are also not listed in the "obstacles" section of their respective rulebooks.

I'm pretty sure that the most recent version of the Acrobat skill specifically excludes scything blades and boulders from the set of things you can move through:  "you may enter and move through obstacles (but not other props, such as scything blades or boulders)".

Saying that they're wall-to-ceiling isn't an assumption made based on the text, it's a way of explaining, after we decided that you can't fly over them, why that might be the case thematically.

 

What's the WoD ruling you're referring to, though?  I can't find anything similar in either the FAQ or the GLoAQ.

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Spoiler alert:

Jonny WS is referring to Quest 8: The Spiral of Death, in the Well of Darkness expansion.

My take is that this condition is specific to this particular quest only, however, and is not intended to apply to Fly generally. Maybe due to the nature of the incline or something, in this quest.

 

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Schmiegel said:

Spoiler alert:

Jonny WS is referring to Quest 8: The Spiral of Death, in the Well of Darkness expansion.

My take is that this condition is specific to this particular quest only, however, and is not intended to apply to Fly generally. Maybe due to the nature of the incline or something, in this quest.

I see what you're referring to; that's in a paragraph containing special rules for the quest, that specifically contradict normal rules, and which are flavor-justified based on the fact that the monsters are used to having boulders roll through.  If anything, the fact that that paragraph gives figures with Fly immunity to boulders goes to show that that is an exception and not how it normally works.

He said a "ruling," not a "rule," which made me think there might be some sort of errata involved.

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