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You know what would help the Empire, don't you?  (and I'm not talking about those imposters the First Order here, I'm talking about the REAL Empire).

An expansion FFG could release that could not only bring some love back to the Imperial Navy, but provide useful upgrades, options and life to the likes of the TIE Bomber, the TIE (spit) Punisher, even the TIE Defender?

You know of what it is I speak.

It's time grows near.  I can feel it.

Press Shift-S.  Space Bar.

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9 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

When you look at what they have done in the past 1.5 years, then it becomes pretty noticeable to me that they are trying to re-adjust the balance of the game.   First was the fixes for Tie Bombers and Tie Defenders.  Next, the nerf to crazy arc dodgers (done by things to hurt them).   Biggs got a slight nerf in FAQ.   New Scyk titles to come out making them much better. The Great Nerfing caught a lot of bad stuff, but missed a few things.   Fixes for two (mostly) unused Scum ships. Look at the Worlds results and  you see some glaring issues.  Why wouldn't anyone think that they are next on the chopping block.  With calls for 2.0 coming out the designers are faced with decisions.  I see them working at retooling the whole game.  When I see people say Imperials have no competitive builds, I think Imperials are perfect now.  Rebels have only a few tournament builds right now and I think Biggs is the worst offender.    Scum has Attanni Mindlink and Jumpmasters.  Fenn Rau is tough, but won't be as bad without Mindlink or cheap Jumpmasters.  

Yes, I m sure we can agree that FFG is gaining their trust by adding fixes slowly but surely in X-Wing. Everyone needs to understand that making good fixes and nerfs take a lot of time and even more play testing.

Just gotta be patient.

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54 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

Oh god! He's never going to shut up about it now! :D

it was my first tourney win. :(

But no, I'm just trying to highlight that Imps still have options. Perceived weakness is not the same as actual weakness. They can't just rely on x7s anymore, but SFs with Lightweight Frame and FCS are very much a thing. The surge in K-Wings and Contracted Scouts has created opportunities for Academy Pilots to shine again.

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36 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I'll disagree with  you on the Palp and X7.   They were in almost every single Imperial list.  If they didn't win, it was more that the other stuff was more broken, but doesn't mean that it wasn't broken, itself.  If there was anything else of the same power level, than it would've been taken, too.   I believe that they were too OP, even if not as OP as the rest of the stuff.  I like to see lists that don't include the Emperor, an X7 Defender, or Soontir Fel.    They just get....boring to play against all the time.  

Time will tell on the Tie Punisher stuff and if it will actually get on the tables.  I could be wrong and you could be right, but I think the Tie Punisher will see more use in tournaments in the next 12 months.  It might take people a while to figure it out, much like the K-wing, Palpatine, Dengar, or Attanni Mindlink.  

You are now mixing things. Palpatine and x7 were used a lot, yes. Because they were good. But that does NOT mean they were broken. By following that logic everything that is played a lot is broken and has to nerfed.

I understand your point that it´s boring to play against the same ships every time, but hey, using those got you very predictable flying and x7 & Palpatine lists were already in decline when the nerf hit.

You don´t see much of B-Wings, Headhunters, A-wings, YT-2400´s on the field either. Is that a reason to nerf all much-used rebel ships? Or scum ships because people don´t use enough Headhunters? No, nerfing should ONLY hit when something is really broken.

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2 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

But no, I'm just trying to highlight that Imps still have options. Perceived weakness is not the same as actual weakness. They can't just rely on x7s anymore, but SFs with Lightweight Frame and FCS are very much a thing. The surge in K-Wings and Contracted Scouts has created opportunities for Academy Pilots to shine again.

Congrats on your first tourney win, seriously. Well done.

It's not just perceived weakness, though. I'm happy you won a Store champ and all, but the fact of the matter is that you had to play harder, get luckier, and fly better than your Scum counterparts in other Store Champs. Their lists can make a couple mistakes and recover. Imps- one mistake and you're dog-food. One missed manuver, one blank roll, one twist of fate and you die. I'm not saying they can't win, but playing Imps right now is like playing on Insane difficulty- you're at a disadvantage. Kudos to those who pull it off, though. Whenever I see an Imp win big events I go: "Dang, he must be good." Whenever I see JM5K/Shadowcaster/Fenn/Teroch win I think: "Pssh that's not an achievement- try playing the game on a difficulty other than 'fuzzy baby happytime mode.'"

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5 hours ago, Pretty Green said:

Let´s look what has happened recently:

Imperials got nerfed. I´ve been trying to ask the reasons behind this and the best I´ve got is "Palpatine and x7´s were OP" and "They did it to broaden Imperial lists".

First of all, Palpatine and x7´s were never OP, otherwise they would have been almost unbeatable and had nearly all the top places in tournaments. Secondly, if you want variance to lists, how about making obsolete ships playable? You can´t balme people for playing something that had success.

TIE Punisher sucks hard. TIE Bomber got some upgrades, it´s still worse bomber than the rebel version and soon "rebel and scum bomber". The shuttle title is not that good. Lambda was used before nerf, now it´s useless. Firespray, useless. Rebels even got the most iconic ship of the Empire which is even better that the Imperial version! Sure, Imperials are getting TIE aggressor, which seems like a mediocre ship. I´m confident that once Imperials get TLT´s, they too will be nerfed. Way to treat 1/3 of the game.

 

Now let´s look at the new "fixes":

Imperial fix titles have drawbacks: can´t use target lock with ATC. X7 loses cannon and missile slots and has to do 3+ moves (and still got nerfed). What do the scum get? Huge cost reduction without any drawbacks.

So, I too, I have come to the same conclusion: FFG hates Imperials.

-Nerfing Imperial cards that are already underperforming.

-No new upcoming good ships.

-Buffing other factions´cards way more than Imperials.

 

My solution?

-More Imperial only upgrades.
-Un-nerf Palpatine and x7.

- Nerf top scum and rebel regeneration.

Thank you.

Palp and x7 were absolutely OP.  Before Imperial Veterans, imperials had several competitive lists using a variety of ships.  After IV, triple defenders and commonwealth defneders were overwhelmingly the most common imperial lists, followed by archetypes that usually had at least 1 x7 defender and/or palp.  It didn't change because every other imperial ship magically became bad.  It changed because x7 defenders were overwhelmingly better than everything else the imperials had.  The only reason defenders/palp didn't have all the top places in tournaments is because they had to compete with the equally broken deadeye uboats and dengaroo.

You don't have to win everything to be broken.  Look back to the pre-nerf whisper days.  Whisper wasn't winning everything, but was warping the meta because if you didn't play whisper, you were playing fat han to kill her.  Same is true with defenders, they didn't have to win everything to push other stuff out of the meta.  TIE swarms couldn't compete with defenders.  A crack swarm could down 1 defender with crackshots, but couldn't kill any more after that.  Palp aces were starting to be pushed out anyway, but why run a 3 health ace that can get focus/evade when you can run a 6 health defender with focus/evade/target lock and a white (or green) kturn?B 

3 hours ago, Pretty Green said:

Do you really think that Imperial Firespray, generic Interceptors, TIE Punisher or Bombers are truly balanced ships? Wow, you must not have played against them in a while. 

No, I don't think those are balanced ships.  But no one is saying EVERY imperial ship is good.  The firespray is bad, the punisher is terrible, generic interceptors are bad.  But unique interceptors were fantastic for a long time, ad have only been pushed out becuase of things like sabine + advanced slam bombs and other autodamage.  Ditto the Inquisitor.  The TIE/Sf is great.  Strikers are good.  With defenders brought back down tie swarms can actually be flyable again.  Whisper is still good.

1 hour ago, Johen Dood said:

OK fair, I'm pretty pissed. Ever since the FAQ it's ALL SCUM ALL THE TIME. And I'm really sick of it. Empire didn't deserve the FAQ, and it REALLY hit my enjoyment of the game not to have any competitive options that stand up to other factions.

Maybe. But if the JM5K taught us anything, it's that the chassis matters- not the upgrades. The problem with Punishers and Bombers? Their chassis are complete crap- the dials being the main offenders. They don't just need a couple of juicy upgrades- they need complete redesign and re-release.

The problem is blocking a K with a small ship is TOUGH. SLAM gives them so many movement options, they really are tough to pin down. You're absolutely right I build my lists differently- I totally skip the Interceptor section of the listbuilder. 3 Hull ships just can't make it in a world with SLAM'd Sabine Bombs. It's why SFs, Defenders, and Omega Leader are all you see on tables right now.

As for my patience for FFG- it's wearing thin. At the beginning of 2017 things seemed optimistic and fun.....but now we're playing a different game where only Scum players are allowed to have anything good. This game when right over a cliff with the FAQ.

Go look at store championship results from the last few weeks.  It's far from all scum all the time.  The Empire absolutely deserved the FAQ.  TIE/x7 is still a very good title, and has been part of quite a few store championship winning/top cut lists.  Palp as well is still useful, showed up in the top 16 at worlds, and has been in quite a few winning/top cut lists in store champs.

1 hour ago, Pretty Green said:

It´s not a matter if you believed Palpatine and x7 to be too powerful: they weren´t as tournament statistics clearly show.

All those new upcoming magic bombs and rockets are not going to be enough to make Punisher viable. And at the same time Scum and Rebels are getting their own new bomber, which seems to be be better than Imperial ones. Yes, I like to use my Bombers quite a bit, but they are too fragile most of the time and aces too expensive.

They probably will nerf the current OP stuff, but it was unnecessary for Palpatine and maybe to x7 too.

Tournament statistics clearly show they were a problem.  If you look at meta wing from the wave 7 release (since it was just after the raidre) until imperial veterans, imperials either flew palp or a tie swarm.  But there were a variety of lists using palp, some on a lambda, some on a decimator, and various aces flying alongside him.  But the main archetypes were palp aces, palp deci + ace, or tie swarm.  After imperial veterans, the main archetypes were commonwealth defenders or triple defenders.  

Defenders won a lot of regionals after IV released, as well as australian nationals last year and a system open this year.  It's not like they never won anything.

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12 minutes ago, Pretty Green said:

You are now mixing things. Palpatine and x7 were used a lot, yes. Because they were good. But that does NOT mean they were broken. By following that logic everything that is played a lot is broken and has to nerfed.

I understand your point that it´s boring to play against the same ships every time, but hey, using those got you very predictable flying and x7 & Palpatine lists were already in decline when the nerf hit.

What's the popular expression for tournament X-wing?  "If it's not broke, don't fly it".  If it were merely "good", then you would see about just as many lists that didn't have Palp or X7 in it.  Did you?  No, you only saw them.  That pretty much means it was they were the most powerful thing you could build for Imperials.

Just because they didn't win major events doesn't mean they aren't broken, just means they aren't the most broken.   If we banned Jumpmasters, Mindlink, and Biggs......Commonwealth Defenders would be one of the most powerful list out there.  Once the nerfs come for those three, we will see Imperials at a proper power level as all the other factions.  

Quote

You don´t see much of B-Wings, Headhunters, A-wings, YT-2400´s on the field either. Is that a reason to nerf all much-used rebel ships? Or scum ships because people don´t use enough Headhunters? No, nerfing should ONLY hit when something is really broken.

I think that once you nerf the last bunch of stuff (Jumpmasters, Mindlink, and Biggs) then you WILL see these ships show up on the tables again.  That's my point.   Once you reduce the most OP ships for every faction, then a lot more ships become viable again.  

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11 minutes ago, Johen Dood said:

Congrats on your first tourney win, seriously. Well done.

It's not just perceived weakness, though. I'm happy you won a Store champ and all, but the fact of the matter is that you had to play harder, get luckier, and fly better than your Scum counterparts in other Store Champs. Their lists can make a couple mistakes and recover. Imps- one mistake and you're dog-food. One missed manuver, one blank roll, one twist of fate and you die. I'm not saying they can't win, but playing Imps right now is like playing on Insane difficulty- you're at a disadvantage. Kudos to those who pull it off, though. Whenever I see an Imp win big events I go: "Dang, he must be good." Whenever I see JM5K/Shadowcaster/Fenn/Teroch win I think: "Pssh that's not an achievement- try playing the game on a difficulty other than 'fuzzy baby happytime mode.'"

Jumpmasters and mindlink being overpowered doesn't mean imperials need a buff.  It just means scum has a couple OP things that are going to get nerfed down.

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4 minutes ago, Johen Dood said:

Congrats on your first tourney win, seriously. Well done.

It's not just perceived weakness, though. I'm happy you won a Store champ and all, but the fact of the matter is that you had to play harder, get luckier, and fly better than your Scum counterparts in other Store Champs. Their lists can make a couple mistakes and recover. Imps- one mistake and you're dog-food. One missed manuver, one blank roll, one twist of fate and you die. I'm not saying they can't win, but playing Imps right now is like playing on Insane difficulty- you're at a disadvantage. Kudos to those who pull it off, though. Whenever I see an Imp win big events I go: "Dang, he must be good." Whenever I see JM5K/Shadowcaster/Fenn/Teroch win I think: "Pssh that's not an achievement- try playing the game on a difficulty other than 'fuzzy baby happytime mode.'"

But that goes back to the actual data highlighted on the first page: Imps aren't actually placing badly. Vessery and Quickdraw are two of the top four most successful ships in the game since the Great Nerfing. Scum ships make up 5 of the top 10, and the Rebel combo of Ghost/Biggs are the other dominant archtype that round out the top 10, but the top 20 still features Omega Leader, Backdraft and the Black Squadron TIE.

Looking at the actual meta archtypes, Imperials make up three of the top 10. Scum have three of 10, including three of the top 5, but overall the meta balance looks pretty split between all three factions.

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48 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

it was my first tourney win. :(

But no, I'm just trying to highlight that Imps still have options. Perceived weakness is not the same as actual weakness. They can't just rely on x7s anymore, but SFs with Lightweight Frame and FCS are very much a thing. The surge in K-Wings and Contracted Scouts has created opportunities for Academy Pilots to shine again.

Aw, I was only kidding. :) You deserved the win.

The lesson I took from your win is that skill is still a big factor. List building is important, and there are some obvious combos that are powerful. (Attani Contracted Scouts) But skill still carries the day.

Personally, I think after a long string of Palpaces, into Defenderaces, and into tripDefenders, that the meta is just tired of them, and trying out the new hotness-es. 

 

Edited by Koing907

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1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

I'll disagree with  you on the Palp and X7.   They were in almost every single Imperial list.  If they didn't win, it was more that the other stuff was more broken, but doesn't mean that it wasn't broken, itself.  If there was anything else of the same power level, than it would've been taken, too.   I believe that they were too OP, even if not as OP as the rest of the stuff.  I like to see lists that don't include the Emperor, an X7 Defender, or Soontir Fel.    They just get....boring to play against all the time.  

Time will tell on the Tie Punisher stuff and if it will actually get on the tables.  I could be wrong and you could be right, but I think the Tie Punisher will see more use in tournaments in the next 12 months.  It might take people a while to figure it out, much like the K-wing, Palpatine, Dengar, or Attanni Mindlink.  

Well, this is supposed to occur in a balanced game right? I mean, every year at Worlds there should be three ships from each faction that dominates those factions lists correct? Wouldn't it be grand if that occurred? I'd love to see a top 12 (for example) with four from each faction even if they all had mostly just three ships in the majority of the squads. How could you design a game where this wouldn't occur? I had no issue with seeing a top three in each faction when you're practicing for tournaments, that was common. I would sooo love that. But now, there isn't three major ships from three factions......least not around here. Why would it be? I understand there are Store Tourneys with ships other than Scum winning, but in the overall meta, IDK, it'll be interesting though. Maybe I'm in a black hole.

1 hour ago, Zazaa said:

I also believe that Biggs is the key here before T65s can be fixed, I'm sure that FFG is working with the issue already.

I was higly against nerfing jumpmaster, mindlink or tlt before, but after getting news that we are getting fixed three different ships for Scum, I'm ready to see what FFG has on their sleeve for them.

As a current Scum competitive player, I get your not wanting to give up the best things in the game that Scum almost has selfishly, but it's a but-hole kinda way to think and we all, deep down, want to enjoy a healthy game without but-holes (I am clearly and admittedly in that boat when I'm sporting my FenBoats, of which I still borrow a JK5 and a Fang). You should only ever have pride in your piloting and strategy abilities, never in having the OP s**t and glad you have it. It's a very weird place....I know. I just think FFG should have really thought out the nerfs and set them all up at once. The guys I play with and I have a "bring beer" list for casual play and, if you bring a card on it, you have to buy beer or help to and we came up with it almost a year ago: 1) Jumpmaster, 2) Zuckuss, 3) Biggs, 4) Sabine, 5) Miranda, 6) X7, 7)TLTs. Oddly enough, Palpatine never made the list; weird I know.

Oh, and none of that crappy beer either, Guinness is the standard...so that or that level. 

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48 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

As a current Scum competitive player, I get your not wanting to give up the best things in the game that Scum almost has selfishly, but it's a but-hole kinda way to think and we all, deep down, want to enjoy a healthy game without but-holes (I am clearly and admittedly in that boat when I'm sporting my FenBoats, of which I still borrow a JK5 and a Fang). You should only ever have pride in your piloting and strategy abilities, never in having the OP s**t and glad you have it. It's a very weird place....I know. I just think FFG should have really thought out the nerfs and set them all up at once.

This is exactly how the rest of us feel about people constantly whining about the x7 and palp nerfs.

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8 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

This is exactly how the rest of us feel about people constantly whining about the x7 and palp nerfs.

I get that too, I whine as much as the next guy and X7s needed a bit of a pull back I guess, but the absolutely amazing chassis to cost ratio of the Jumpmaster outweighs the Defender chassis to cost ratio even factoring the free token pre-nerf, IMO. I have flown both a bunch....the JK5 is a crazy gift to the power-creep gods. It should'a been nerfed first or with; And when I say nerfed, I mean it's fantastic chassis to cost ratio, not mods, personnel or things you add to it.

Edited by clanofwolves

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6 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

I get that too, I whine as much as the next guy and X7s needed a bit of a pull back I guess, but the absolutely amazing chassis to cost ratio of the Jumpmaster outweighs the Defender chassis to cost ratio even factoring the free token pre-nerf, IMO. I have flown both a bunch....the JK5 is a crazy gift to the power-creep gods. It should'a been nerfed first or with; And when I say nerfed, I mean it's fantastic chassis to cost ratio, not mods, personnel or things you add to it.

Oh the jumpmaster (and mindlink probably) absolutely needs to be nerfed.  Just saying that x7 and palp absolutely needed it too, and the fact that jumpmasters are still OP and need to be nerfed more in no way means they shouldn't have nerfed x7 or palp.  Or that they should be rolled back.

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19 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Oh the jumpmaster (and mindlink probably) absolutely needs to be nerfed.  Just saying that x7 and palp absolutely needed it too, and the fact that jumpmasters are still OP and need to be nerfed more in no way means they shouldn't have nerfed x7 or palp.  Or that they should be rolled back.

I can see your points. Well penned and not an uncommon viewpoint of those who fly Boats. But I have some beef with the way it happened if in fact I accept it was the games destiny to occur. Simply put, they captured and lopped off the heads of the dangerous dragons in the land, before they (hopefully/might) capture and kill the one that has burned the village to the ground and has eviscerated our heroes. Can you not hear the lamentations of our women? Joking and odd illustrations aside, FFG's timing and priorities simply seem kinda bizarre to me. Personally, it would have been great to see Commonwealth Defenders at least be able once again attempt to dethrone the World dominance of the JK5 while they are both at full strength....guess I like the best teams playing against one another at full power, without notable injuries on one team's beat players. At least then, they could have traded punches and the best --albeit OP-- could rise to the top, be it JK5's, Defenders, Miranda/Sabine, whatever the power is. Ten, crack heads at one time and take names later. Maybe that was asking far too much of the design team. Gotta stop judging from the stands I guess.

Edited by clanofwolves

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8 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

I can see your points. Well penned and not an uncommon viewpoint of those who fly Boats. But I have some beef with the way it happened if in fact I accept it was the games destiny to occur. Simply put, they captured and lopped off the heads of the dangerous dragons in the land, before they (hopefully/might) capture and kill the one that has burned the village to the ground and has eviscerated our heroes. Can you not hear the lamentations of our women? Joking and odd illustrations aside, FFG's timing and priorities simply seem kinda bizarre to me. Personally, it would have been great to see Commonwealth Defenders at least be able once again attempt to dethrone the World dominance of the JK5 while they are both at full strength....guess I like the best teams playing against one another at full power, without notable injuries on one team's beat players. At least then, they could have traded punches and the best --albeit OP-- could rise to the top, be it JK5's, Defenders, Miranda/Sabine, whatever the power is. Ten, crack heads at one time and take names later. Maybe that was asking far too much of the design team. Gotta stop judging from the stands I guess.

FFG's not perfect, but they're at least trying.  Sure, they didn't nerf u-boats in the lsat big nerf, but they DID do scum nerfs.  They hit dengaroo with zuckuss (for all that dengaroo didn't need to be nerfed by then), and they nerfed paratanni with the manaroo change (and sort of old man fenn).

The manaroo nerf DID effectively cut back the number of paratanni's showing up (as evidenced by them winning what, all but 1 of the pre-nerf system opens, then none postnerf?).

Unfortunately it really didn't do anything to slow down old man fenn.    Or mindlink uboats of course, but IIRC the mindlink uboats were mostly just on the rise when the nerf came out, they hadn't been huge yet before that.  And I don't think rau boats came about until after.

Jumpmasters definitely still need a nerf, but it's not like ffg has completely ignored them.

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2 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

But that goes back to the actual data highlighted on the first page: Imps aren't actually placing badly. Vessery and Quickdraw are two of the top four most successful ships in the game since the Great Nerfing. Scum ships make up 5 of the top 10, and the Rebel combo of Ghost/Biggs are the other dominant archtype that round out the top 10, but the top 20 still features Omega Leader, Backdraft and the Black Squadron TIE.

Looking at the actual meta archtypes, Imperials make up three of the top 10. Scum have three of 10, including three of the top 5, but overall the meta balance looks pretty split between all three factions.

You're cherry-picking your data from recent 'Store championship' data on list juggler. If you aggregate all of the data since the Palp nerf, include post-nerf Opens and Worlds Imps don't even register until Vessery at rank 10. 5 Scum ships (scout, fenn, assaj, dengar, and manaroo), 4 rebel ships (biggs, gold, miranda, zeb), and Vessery being the only top 10 Imperial.

Don't twist the stats and tell me Imperials are fine.

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On 30/05/2017 at 6:18 PM, heychadwick said:

Look....there will be another Nerfing!   There has to be with the latest Worlds results!  The Great Nerfing before fixed a lot of issues that were bad for the game.  They missed some.    The next round of Nerfing will hit Jumpmasters, Attanni Mindlink, and Biggs.  Just you wait and see.   Once it does that......what is left?   What is so "broken" about Scum at that point?    It's really just that they left out a few things and are going to fix it next.  

Once they remove those, what is going to be left?   There shouldn't be anything "broken" left!  There will be a new power level.  

Doesn't matter.

There will always be better ships vs worse ships, and better upgrades vs worse upgrades.

and the forums will always be filled by endless whining about the stuff that works.

Empire absolutely aren't allowed nice things. It's actually a rule at this point.

And scum aren't allowed to be different from rebels, or have any definable flavour.

they seemingly need to be inferior rebels, sans Biggs.

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54 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

FFG's not perfect, but at least...they didn't nerf u-boats in the lsat big nerf, but they DID do scum nerfs...it really didn't do anything to slow down...Jumpmasters...still need a nerf, but it's not like ffg has completely ignored them.

Haha, sorry, had to play with your thread post a bit cause I'm on a conference call and it's boooooring! I get your point, really do, just have a different way to view the same facts. No worries. Maybe we'll get to play one day; not sure who'd buy the beer though........we'll see ?

Edited by clanofwolves

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1 hour ago, Johen Dood said:

You're cherry-picking your data from recent 'Store championship' data on list juggler. If you aggregate all of the data since the Palp nerf, include post-nerf Opens and Worlds Imps don't even register until Vessery at rank 10. 5 Scum ships (scout, fenn, assaj, dengar, and manaroo), 4 rebel ships (biggs, gold, miranda, zeb), and Vessery being the only top 10 Imperial.

Don't twist the stats and tell me Imperials are fine.

I'm not disputing that there are still issues with the Jumpmaster. That thing was aggressively underpriced (compare it with the Wild Space Fringer) and probably the biggest design misfire in the game to date.  FFG has been very reluctant to change numerical values of any ships or upgrades, but I think it's inevitable here.

But yes, relative to the meta, Imps are fine. The SF and Defenders are doing well, and TIE Fighters and TIE/fos (largely Omega Leader) are still placing well. If they're considered to be weak because the Advanced, Interceptors and Bombers aren't showing up, then you'd have to say the same thing for Rebels (T70s, B-Wings, and Z-95s are dead) and Scum (would probably be considered dead as a faction without the Jumpmaster).

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On ‎30‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 10:13 PM, Ebak said:

I remember a time when TIE/SFs were declared dead on arrival...if people saw how @Jarval flies them, they would have changed their tune.

The community is nearly always wrong with predicting things.

Well, the TIE/sf was certainly dead on arrival. It is only that the quick arrival of lightweight frames, (with a little aid of pattern analyzers) successfully defibrillated them before the brain damage was permanent.

Remove those upgrades from the scene, and see how well the /sf does. (hint: you won't even see it).

The /sf can consider itself lucky. Not everyone survives such a flat-line experience.

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24 minutes ago, Jehan Menasis said:

Well, the TIE/sf was certainly dead on arrival. It is only that the quick arrival of lightweight frames, (with a little aid of pattern analyzers) successfully defibrillated them before the brain damage was permanent.

Remove those upgrades from the scene, and see how well the /sf does. (hint: you won't even see it).

The /sf can consider itself lucky. Not everyone survives such a flat-line experience.

I respectfully disagree. I've seen Backdraft and Quickdraw used to fantastic effect without lightweight frames and electronic baffle. In both instances the ship won and even triumphed over the traditional Quickdraw build using 'baffle and lightweight.

To this day I use it as my example that the community can be wrong about things prior to release.

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11 minutes ago, Ebak said:

I respectfully disagree. I've seen Backdraft and Quickdraw used to fantastic effect without lightweight frames and electronic baffle. In both instances the ship won and even triumphed over the traditional Quickdraw build using 'baffle and lightweight.

To this day I use it as my example that the community can be wrong about things prior to release.

Sure, if you have hot dice you can do anything. Statistically though, it's only LWF that keeps the /SF viable.

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13 minutes ago, Ebak said:

I respectfully disagree. I've seen Backdraft and Quickdraw used to fantastic effect without lightweight frames and electronic baffle. In both instances the ship won and even triumphed over the traditional Quickdraw build using 'baffle and lightweight.

To this day I use it as my example that the community can be wrong about things prior to release.

With regards to lightweight frame, I'd argue it's actaully a bad upgrade for the SF.  Sure, you cang uarantee trigger your ability on quickdraw, but you're just killing yourself faster.  If you're flying quickdraw you WILL have your ability trigger (or you'll win without him taking damage, at which point who cares if he didn't trigger).

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1 hour ago, Johen Dood said:

Sure, if you have hot dice you can do anything. Statistically though, it's only LWF that keeps the /SF viable.

Attributing failures in ability down merely to luck is a discredit to your opponent, their list, and a simplification. I see it as someone saying "Oh, your victory had NOTHING to do with you being a good player/pilot, my dice just let me down." or "I didn't make a mistake, I simply got unlucky" and while luck is a factor in the game, it is one that can be mitigated, removed and influenced at every turn.

If luck was such a high factor, we wouldn't have a three time world champ.

Now, I used to think like this, and sometimes I instinctively do. However, upon reflection I nearly always find that my tactics were not sound, I approached things wrong or simply made a mistake, which does happen and yes is costly regardless of the faction you are playing. The closest you come to 'luck' for me in this game is the match ups in tournaments. Some lists are just bad against others because of the archetype and this is what kept the game in line during the earlier days...as time has gone on its become harder to balance that knife edge especially when you can pretty much be sure you'll go up against a list that is inherintly good against yours by sheer value of numbers.

I get it, you want Empire to be strong again, I want Rebels to do well. Scum won worlds 2017, and sadly the timing of this new release (which would have been in the works LONG before worlds 2017) is very bad and has people making incorrect statements about FFG's desire.

FFG are not fools, a healthy balanced game will go further than having the game stagnate and die a wheezing death akin to the Dark Lord himself. They screwed up on the Jumpmaster, take that b**t**d away or hit it with a +5 point cost, you know what happens? The house of cards that is Scum might come crashing down. Yes protectorates are good, Lancers are good...but the JumpMaster was a spectacular ship that just has everything going for it. I personally think FFG should just bite the bullet and increase it's cost. Their current method isn't helping as they are attempting to fix the JM problem with putting a bandaid over a wound when the patient is actually dying from internal bleeding. They are not addressing the root problem. The problem is public percetion...if they just go and alter the price suddenly it becomes easy for people to say:

RPOTIWTTKB*: "Oh just lower the cost of this ship"
FFG: "We can't just do that..."
RPOTIWTTKB*: "Well..you did it for the Jumpmaster!"
FFG: "Yes but the Jumpmaster was an issue and there was no other-"
RPOTIWTTKB*: "YOU DID IT FOR THE JUMPMASTER SO YOU CAN DO IT FOR [INSERT PERSONAL BELOVED SHIP HERE]."

That's the problem, it creates a slippery slope. A can of worms they only just opened a little bit more with them changing the entire text of cards in order to broaden the meta a little bit. Plus to be honest...as much as I like Imperials, I was getting tired of seeing Palpatine + X ship + Y ship...

I want a stable and balanced meta, not one where the Empire rules supreme, not one where Scum rule whether they be Rebel scum or Scum and Villainy. However, this is hard to do and everyone has a warped perspective on things.

(General statement, not focused at you specifically) Don't bite the hand that feeds you, if you want the game to evolve and get strong don't call FFG incompetant when we know everyone has been incompetant at least once in their lives and they are the only ones who can balance the game.

*RPOTIWTTKB - Random Person On The Internet Who Thinks They Know Better. (I know, a tad ironic given what I've said....but it seems EVERYONE knows what will fix the meta and EVERYONE has a different fix and it tends to always put one faction in favor in some regard. Let the game designers design games.)

Edited by Ebak

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