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16 minutes ago, Malraza said:

Or it could, much more charitably, be interpreted as a desire for the support for the game to match the demand. It helps significantly with growth as well, letting your fans be involved. 

Sure, but it's still a risk.

Over estimating attendance for an event and missing the mark implies a big economical and opportunity loss, especially if you understand how Gencon Tickets work (and how Gencon organisers go about allocating space for Future shows based on past performance).

AEG has never hosted an event for more than 350 players at Gencon, and neither has FFG. Frankly when I saw the 350 limit I thought "that should be enough", and I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one.

Not having enough product/space to accommodate everybody that wants to participate, even after meeting and exceeding a very optimistic forecast, is a GOOD problem to have. Some of us just need to stop taking this personally, be patient, wait our turn, and be happy so many people want to give this game a shot!

Edited by El_Ganso

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13 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

I hope they bring literally thousands of L5R Core Sets.

Yes... even if they still have stock left at the end of Gencon, it's not like they will not be able to sell the extra within a month. 

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30 minutes ago, Isawa Tasatu said:

Yes... even if they still have stock left at the end of Gencon, it's not like they will not be able to sell the extra within a month. 

But it's really expensive to move around. That's mainly why most companies don't want to leave from a Con with product and why they have a tendency to underestimate the quantities needed.

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30 minutes ago, Ser Nakata said:

But it's really expensive to move around. That's mainly why most companies don't want to leave from a Con with product and why they have a tendency to underestimate the quantities needed.

It can be expensive, but its not exactly like it needs special trucking or anything. The cost of a couple of extra deliveries versus the initial good will can't be that much... unless you are really penny pinching. Gencon is about advertising and spreading product. 

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I don't know exactly how many of us tried and failed to get a ticket for the Thursday tournament (I guess a lot, given how fast they ran out). But I'm sure quite a few who wanted a ticket would buy 3 Core Sets if it was possible. So I think they wouldn't have any trouble selling a couple thousand copies.

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2 hours ago, Isawa Tasatu said:

It can be expensive, but its not exactly like it needs special trucking or anything. The cost of a couple of extra deliveries versus the initial good will can't be that much... unless you are really penny pinching. Gencon is about advertising and spreading product. 

I'll just point out, it's a lot easier to spend money (and accuse anyone who doesn't do so of being cheap) when it's not coming out of your own pocket.

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3 hours ago, Isawa Tasatu said:

... unless you are really penny pinching.

I mean, you saw the announcement about ANA going exclusive with Alliance Game Distributors right?

ANA/FFG really isn't in the business of doing things for "good will".

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3 hours ago, Isawa Tasatu said:

It can be expensive, but its not exactly like it needs special trucking or anything. The cost of a couple of extra deliveries versus the initial good will can't be that much... unless you are really penny pinching. Gencon is about advertising and spreading product. 

The thing is whatever you don't sell needs to be transported twice. Once to the Con and once back to the depot. If you bring too much goods, your margin on what you have to take back to the depot dwindles dramatically.

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7 hours ago, Suzume Urusai said:

I want to play Legend of the Five Rings not pick 3. Oh man the Koteis/Topaz/Imperial wedding sold out ten seconds in ticket selection is not a phrase i want to be constantly uttering.

It's currently going through "new game" syndrome. It tends to happen with FFG's new games. When Game of Thrones came out, the tournament sold out in about 25 minutes. And the next year it sold out after a few hours. This year, there are still a hand full of tickets still available for it.

I wouldn't worry about it staying at this level. People will play it, a lot will enjoy it, a lot will find it fun but not commitment worthy and a few will probably hate it.

At Gencon next year, I imagine everyone who wants to play will be able to play.

As for Koteis, I don't think they'll have any capacity issues. They're still regional events, after all.

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I'm not sure how anyone can extrapolate a standard operating procedure from a tournament being held before the game has even released. To insinuate that this situation will repeat is at best misunderstanding what went on, and verges more towards willful ignorance and malice.

FFG did the best they could in this situation - their GenCon program is incredible. Most of us with understanding of convention and tournament logistics expected there to be single event with MAYBE 128 places. Instead we literally get L5R on every day, as well as two seminars...that's an incredible commitment and show of faith from the company that far exceeds what we could have hoped for.

As for the story line component to the events...well, this has also come as a surprise, and honestly, I'm viewing it as a bonus more than anything else rather than any kind of indication that going forward all story line events will have this kind of demand. Everything FFG have done so far has demonstrated that L5R is going to one of their top priorities, if not their flagship brand going forward. This is a truly glorious time for Five Rings, and it's only going to get better going forward.

I feel for those people who missed out. I was equally devastated when I got to the front of the processing queue not even twenty minutes after it opened and found everything sold out. I felt hurt, I felt angry, I felt betrayed...but I quickly made my peace with that, and thought about what this response means for Five Rings. I've said all along that that I want more than anything is the chance to once again play the game I love with friends old and new, and EVERYTHING FFG have done has made that desire more and more into a reality. The overwhelming response from the gaming community is one of massive anticipation...that's why everything sold out so quickly, and that's something I choose to celebrate, not condemn.

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Honestly, how annoyed I am at gencon pales in comparison to how annoyed I am at people flipping the about this. I can't go to gencon now because the friend I was going to go with flipped and said **** it cause he missed the events he wanted. Means I can't afford to go.

When I lost out of the inaugural, I just tooled around and decided to sign up for some tabletop games that looked fun. Still lots of stuff to do, can still get L5R, can still find people to play with. Still have the clan dinners, unofficial meetups, a lot to do as a community.

This is a better sign than not for the game, and we should do our best as a community to keep pushing for growth, instead of just ******* and moaning. We show interest and desire, show L5R and FFG we're here and ready to play, we can show we deserve a large tourney space for future events. 

 

 

 

(Kicker of course is friend wasn't as into L5R as I am...)

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6 hours ago, El_Ganso said:

AEG has never hosted an event for more than 350 players at Gencon, and neither has FFG. Frankly when I saw the 350 limit I thought "that should be enough", and I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one.

Hmm, because CCG had completely different GenCon tournament structure, i mean qualifiers that leaded to main Event? But there were 350+ players L5R events at Gencon, day after day fe back in 2000. 

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8 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

Honestly, how annoyed I am at gencon pales in comparison to how annoyed I am at people flipping the about this. I can't go to gencon now because the friend I was going to go with flipped and said **** it cause he missed the events he wanted. Means I can't afford to go.

When I lost out of the inaugural, I just tooled around and decided to sign up for some tabletop games that looked fun. Still lots of stuff to do, can still get L5R, can still find people to play with. Still have the clan dinners, unofficial meetups, a lot to do as a community.

This is a better sign than not for the game, and we should do our best as a community to keep pushing for growth, instead of just ******* and moaning. We show interest and desire, show L5R and FFG we're here and ready to play, we can show we deserve a large tourney space for future events. 

 

 

 

(Kicker of course is friend wasn't as into L5R as I am...)

To me, the events are, at most, half the fun of Gencon. Honestly, I kind of like that I have no event on Friday. That just means more time to explore the game hall, try new games, test L5R with friends and maybe find a tournament that piques my interest. There's still the evenings when no one is doing events where people will certainly just be playing, drinking and having a good time.

 

My group didn't have any people who quit out of Gencon because they couldn't get into the events they wanted, but I saw a lot of it online and I just don't understand why.

 

To everyone who is mad about missing out on these games I would say:

Still go. You're still getting the game early. You're still seeing friends. Playing the games. Experiencing the best four days in gaming. Seeing the new games that are coming out, testing new games and enjoying the weekend.

It isn't just a tournament. It's an experience that you'd be sad to miss just due to salt.

Getting a copy or 2 (or 3) of L5R 2 to 3 months before it gets released to the world is already worth the price of admission in my opinion. We're all waiting to play this game, aren't we?

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1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

I'll just point out, it's a lot easier to spend money (and accuse anyone who doesn't do so of being cheap) when it's not coming out of your own pocket.

 

1 hour ago, Danwarr said:

I mean, you saw the announcement about ANA going exclusive with Alliance Game Distributors right?

ANA/FFG really isn't in the business of doing things for "good will".

 

50 minutes ago, Ser Nakata said:

The thing is whatever you don't sell needs to be transported twice. Once to the Con and once back to the depot. If you bring too much goods, your margin on what you have to take back to the depot dwindles dramatically.

I understand how business works and that there is a cost implication... if you cannot afford it, you cannot afford it. But businesses do have this habit of forgetting that goodwill is a real thing that generally produces far more financial gain in the long run that should not just be ignored. I'm not saying ffg is or is not doing that, I'm just saying cost is not the only consideration. 

And no I don't think that ffg is going to lose customers because of a lack of stock at Gencon as most people are pretty reasonable and recognize this is not the actual release, I`'m just pointing out having to much stock is not necessarily bad. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

To me, the events are, at most, half the fun of Gencon. Honestly, I kind of like that I have no event on Friday. That just means more time to explore the game hall, try new games, test L5R with friends and maybe find a tournament that piques my interest. There's still the evenings when no one is doing events where people will certainly just be playing, drinking and having a good time.

 

My group didn't have any people who quit out of Gencon because they couldn't get into the events they wanted, but I saw a lot of it online and I just don't understand why.

 

To everyone who is mad about missing out on these games I would say:

Still go. You're still getting the game early. You're still seeing friends. Playing the games. Experiencing the best four days in gaming. Seeing the new games that are coming out, testing new games and enjoying the weekend.

It isn't just a tournament. It's an experience that you'd be sad to miss just due to salt.

Getting a copy or 2 (or 3) of L5R 2 to 3 months before it gets released to the world is already worth the price of admission in my opinion. We're all waiting to play this game, aren't we?

I was kind of looking forward to some of the tabletop RP games, my group is very...DnD/Pathfinder. So getting a chance to play something like CoC or Shadowrun was something I was looking forward to.

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7 minutes ago, Isawa Tasatu said:

 

 

I understand how business works and that there is a cost implication... if you cannot afford it, you cannot afford it. But businesses do have this habit of forgetting that goodwill is a real thing that generally produces far more financial gain in the long run that should not just be ignored. I'm not saying ffg is or is not doing that, I'm just saying cost is not the only consideration. 

And no I don't think that ffg is going to lose customers because of a lack of stock at Gencon as most people are pretty reasonable and recognize this is not the actual release, I`'m just pointing out having to much stock is not necessarily bad. 

 

What business do you run? How is having too much stock NOT a bad thing for business?

Edited by Shu2jack

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1 minute ago, Shu2jack said:

What business do you run? How is having too much stock NOT a bad thing for business?

To much 'dead' stock is bad for business..... every business that wishes to sell stock needs to actually have stock. Not having enough stock is just as bad as 'dead' stock....

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Stock that you're selling is, by definition, not 'too much' it's the right amount.

Of course, being able to tell the difference between enough and too much is a skill in great demand, and sometimes only possible in retrospect, when it's impossible to change.

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9 minutes ago, Isawa Tasatu said:

To much 'dead' stock is bad for business..... every business that wishes to sell stock needs to actually have stock. Not having enough stock is just as bad as 'dead' stock....

Why? Not having enough stock means you sold it. Presumably at a profit. Dead stock is a loss.

 

Again, What business do you run?

Edited by Shu2jack

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3 minutes ago, Shu2jack said:

Why? Not having enough stock means you sold it. Presumably at a profit. Dead stock is a loss.

 

Again, What business do you run?

I think he's saying that a company like FFG would probably rather bring 1000 units, and sell 850 of them than bring 500 and sell all 500.

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1 minute ago, Shu2jack said:

Why? Not having enough stock means at least you sold it. Presumably at a profit.

 

Again, What business do you run?

It also means you could have made even more profit (under the same assumption that each sale is made at a profit). So I think it's not quite as bad as dead stock (which is a loss), but still bad.

Disclaimer: I don't run a business.

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1 minute ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

I think he's saying that a company like FFG would probably rather bring 1000 units, and sell 850 of them than bring 500 and sell all 500.

I think FFG is certain to have more than 1000 units at Gen Con. If I remember correctly, they kept bringing in more GoT 2.0 Cores every day over the whole 4 days.

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Just now, Danwarr said:

I think FFG is certain to have more than 1000 units at Gen Con. If I remember correctly, they kept bringing in more GoT 2.0 Cores every day over the whole 4 days.

Just a theoretical number. I don't know how many they'll bring, so I just threw out some numbers to illustrate the point :).

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