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Rytackle

Mynock Podcast 69: Post Worlds Analysis

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http://mynockpodcast.libsyn.com/episode-69-post-worlds-analysis

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We've returned to real content! The Mynock crew takes a look at some of the main trends happening at Worlds and what it means for your upcoming store championship.  Ryan attempt to understand Juggler's Meta Analyzer, Dee tells us why certain things are "broken", and Dallas does Dallas things.

  • [00:00:00] Introductions
  • [00:04:00] Worlds: How did we do?
  • [00:25:30] Worlds: Stats
  • [00:52:00] Dee's Mini State of the X-Wing
  • [01:35:00] What are we flying for Store Champs?
  • [01:53:00] Shout Outs

Fly Better!

Check out our Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/mynockpodcast

Image may contain: 15 people, people smiling, people standing

 

Edited by Rytackle

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Hey! New to the game and your podcast has been a big help/fun to listen to. 

Any chance you guys could do an episode or two on the following?

1. New Small Ship Ideas - There alot of ships out there that could fit in nicely and emphasize dog fighting. Would be fun to hear a discussion of your top 10 new small ship suggestions. 

2. Best Matchups - There are a lot of discussions about favorite lists or the best meta. But I want to hear more about the matchups that on net result in the closest and most "fun" games. Think of the question as this...if you could only play 2 lists against eachother with an equivalently skilled opponent what would you pick. 

Less a meta conversation and almost more of an alternate game modes continuation. But simpler than even that.  

Some ideas "Rey/Fin + Poe vs Slave 1 + Fen Rau" tends to be pretty close and fun. "Tie Swarm vs X-Wings" is tough to get balanced but fun on net.

Basically to boil down the definition of fun what matchups using current ships/cards most often end super close on the last round and emphasize arcs over turrets or at least combo play of using turrets in arc.

Theme matters but less than matchups that have alot of good moments and emphasize flying.

 

Edited by Boom Owl

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Great podcast as usual guys. Glad you gave a shout-out for a dial fix idea on JK5 that's easy and doesn't require reprinting. The discussion did bog down a bit in the Intro to Statistics 101, but it was an all around great discussion in the end.

...there are issues in X-Wing, but gladly they are quite few, and quite easy to spot. 

Edited by clanofwolves

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38 minutes ago, Chief Hugh said:

Good show...but I think there was maybe five sentences that were not interrupted by Dee. I'm not being rude, I would just like for the other pod casters to be able to finish a thought so I can hear what they have to say.

Keep up the great work .

 

You're not being rude, he was. At one point he said farmer shouldn't dismiss what he's presenting before he says it but Dee spent the entire podcast doing exactly that.

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I just don't understand the Biggs debate that's had on this episode. They spend twenty minutes talking about how all of these Rebel ships are bad or useless without Biggs, and so the solution is... ban Biggs? How does that make sense?

Yeah, no question it opens up future design space, but it also invalidates the design of an entire faction since the beginning of the game. You guys talk about banning Biggs as if it would erase Biggs from the X Wing timeline, but that just wouldn't happen. It would just pull one of the rebel factions fundamental support pillars out from under it (remember, Biggs has been a part of the game since the core set).

My question would just be "What would viable rebel listbuilding look like the day after Biggs got banned?" Honestly, I think it would be pretty sparse.

 

 

Edited by MacchuWA

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4 minutes ago, MacchuWA said:

I just don't understand the Biggs debate that's had on this episode. They spend twenty minutes talking about how all of these Rebel ships are bad or useless without Biggs, and so the solution is... ban Biggs? How does that make sense?

Yeah, no question it opens up future design space, but it also invalidates the  design of an entire faction since the beginning of the game. You guys talk about banking Biggs as if it would ease Biggs from the X Wing timeline, but that just wouldn't happen. It would just pull one of the rebel factions fundamental support pillars out from under it (remember, Biggs has been a part of the game since the core set).

My question would just be "What would viable rebel listbuilding look like the day after Biggs got banned?" Honestly, I think it would be pretty sparse.

 

 

Their argument was that FFG can't or finds it difficult to fix the xwing, ewing, etc because of biggs.

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8 minutes ago, Chief Hugh said:

Their argument was that FFG can't or finds it difficult to fix the xwing, ewing, etc because of biggs.

Yeah, sure, but if you pull Biggs, then, what, do a fix for literally every single rebel ship that was designed with Biggs in mind?

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2 minutes ago, MacchuWA said:

Yeah, sure, but if you pull Biggs, then, what, do a fix for literally every single rebel ship that was designed with Biggs in mind?

That's up to FFG. I think they should change his ability to "once per round when a friendly ship at range one..." and give us the freaking x

-wing fix.

 

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It's not a good listen this week.  Dee says some valid things and some hyperbolic things while nobody else gets a look in, and nobody really dares to counterpoint because he'll jump down their throat.

Theres good info in the listjuggler data that Dee refused to even believe could be accurate, some of it would even have supported his assertions if he'd ever let Ryan finish a sentence to explain it.

Jumpmasters are broken but his drive to say 'what bit is the broken bit' is not helpful because the answer is that it's the sum of the whole that is the problem.  If you change the dial the cost is fine, if you change the cost the dial is fine, if you drop the torps or reduce agility the cost and the dial are more appropriate.  The question is whether FFG are prepared to change any of these things.

Attani is a lovely card that I think most people want to see succeed in the game, but don't like the current dominance.  Best suggestion I've seen is small ship only, which is bad for fluff but good for balance.  My concern is that it will always be a design factor in future ships that they can't give scum another good small ship, and in theory the new Scyk pilots are already that.  The small ship only boat may have already sailed with the C-ROC.

Biggs is one where I think FFG are pursuing the right strategy of gradually drop-feeding things in that nibble away at Biggs by providing ways to ignore his ability.  If you just ripped Biggs out of the current Rebel ships they'd be sitting ducks, a softly softly approach is right.  

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The thing with Biggs is, he is not the problem, he is a symptom. The real problem is Rebel design philosophy vs the way offensive has changed in the game in general. 

Since the beginning of the game, the basic consensuses has always been, that Imperials are hard hit, Rebels are hard to kill. Imps have high agility and maneuverability, but a single good shot can take them out. Meanwhile Rebels are easy to hit, but have the HP and occasionally regen to take it. And for a time it worked. Remember, back in the day, the B-Wing was a solid meta choice, because back then, 8 HP where a lot to chew trough. And back then, Biggs saw very little use, because other Rebel ships could function on there own. 

But then offensive started to increase in the game, and suddenly the 2-3 extra HP that Rebels had became less and less relevant and unlike Imperials or scum, Rebels don't have cheap, self-sufficient ships. Due to regen being such a powerful ability, every Rebel ship, that is individually good, cost 40+ points.

So while an Imperial list might be: 

-"Best Available Ace A"

-"Best Available Ace B"

-"Best Affordable Ace C" or "Support Piece"

 

Rebels can't afford such built, so most of  there small ships list are: 

-"Regen Ace"

-"Control piece"

-"Meat-Shield"  

And rebels need that Meat-Shield, because, without it, there Ace, that has to carry the game will be alphaed of the table instantly. 

 

So what should FFG do? Imho they should embrace this dynamic. We should not remove Biggs, so we can give Rebels low cost aces, instead we should give Rebles meaningful alternatives to Biggs in form of other Meatshild ships. FFG has already sort of started down this path, with stuff like Rex and Thanen Kyrell but we are not quite there jet. 

Edited by Duskwalker

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5 minutes ago, Duskwalker said:

So what should FFG do? Imho they should embrace this dynamic. We should not remove Biggs, so we can give Rebels low cost aces, instead we should give Rebles meaningful alternatives to Biggs in form of other Meatshild ships. FFG has already sort of started down this path, with stuff like Rex and Thanen Kyrell but we are not quite there jet. 

I nearly said this myself.  I guess the danger is that you just get people playing two meat shields, instead of choosing one or the other.

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1 minute ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I nearly said this myself.  I guess the danger is that you just get people playing two meat shields, instead of choosing one or the other.

Well, it would be necessary to word them (and possibly re-word Biggs) so that they are either mutually exclusive or do not impact each other to massively (like Rex+Biggs is good, but not game-breaking). Or make them to expansive to bring multiple.    

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5 hours ago, Duskwalker said:

The thing with Biggs is, he is not the problem, he is a symptom. The real problem is Rebel design philosophy vs the way offensive has changed in the game in general. 

Since the beginning of the game, the basic consensuses has always been, that Imperials are hard hit, Rebels are hard to kill. Imps have high agility and maneuverability, but a single good shot can take them out. Meanwhile Rebels are easy to hit, but have the HP and occasionally regen to take it. And for a time it worked. Remember, back in the day, the B-Wing was a solid meta choice, because back then, 8 HP where a lot to chew trough. And back then, Biggs saw very little use, because other Rebel ships could function on there own. 

But then offensive started to increase in the game, and suddenly the 2-3 extra HP that Rebels had became less and less relevant and unlike Imperials or scum, Rebels don't have cheap, self-sufficient ships. Due to regen being such a powerful ability, every Rebel ship, that is individually good, cost 40+ points.

So while an Imperial list might be: 

-"Best Available Ace A"

-"Best Available Ace B"

-"Best Affordable Ace C" or "Support Piece"

 

Rebels can't afford such built, so most of  there small ships list are: 

-"Regen Ace"

-"Control piece"

-"Meat-Shield"  

And rebels need that Meat-Shield, because, without it, there Ace, that has to carry the game will be alphaed of the table instantly. 

 

So what should FFG do? Imho they should embrace this dynamic. We should not remove Biggs, so we can give Rebels low cost aces, instead we should give Rebles meaningful alternatives to Biggs in form of other Meatshild ships. FFG has already sort of started down this path, with stuff like Rex and Thanen Kyrell but we are not quite there jet. 

I was thinking this too.  There's not many good Rebel ships in the "Pocket Ace" range of the mid 20s.  Not only is Biggs very good, he has almost no competition.  The stresshog is the other major Rebel piece in that range, and it's very specific in what it's good agaisnt.

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4 minutes ago, phild0 said:

Let's just give all 3 factions a Biggs-type ability. Itd be really helpful to increase playability of some ships that just cant survive long enough to make a meaningful impact.

Well ... they already sorta have it, don't they?  You ever seen how fast people gun for Tomax+Crack Shot?  N'Dru+Homers?

It's just that the two other factions can do it in a way that maintains player agency and list variety, while Rebels doesn't.

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3 minutes ago, The Jawa That Shot R2 said:

Was anyone else uncomfortable listening to this episode? I usually like this show a lot and I listen every week but the constant interrupting and shooting everything Ryan says down was a bit much this time around.

Yeah, it left me a little bit unsettled afterwards. But true to form, there were enough good things said that I didn't want to bring that up. I'm super happy that Dee has some passion again...I just wish it weren't directed at criticizing Ryan on-air so much. It sounded to me like he gave Ryan a homework assignment without good directions on what he was looking for, and then gave Ryan a bad grade when Ryan didn't correctly ascertain what Dee was expecting from the assignment.

But I want to reiterate that there were lots of good things in there, and I laughed out loud multiple times. So keep up the good work!

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14 minutes ago, The Jawa That Shot R2 said:

Was anyone else uncomfortable listening to this episode? I usually like this show a lot and I listen every week but the constant interrupting and shooting everything Ryan says down was a bit much this time around.

So much so that I posted about it on the sub-Reddit, mid-listen.  It was just too much.  My friends and I rip on each other pretty hard, but not with condescension.  That's what bugged me about it.

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58 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

So much so that I posted about it on the sub-Reddit, mid-listen.  It was just too much.  My friends and I rip on each other pretty hard, but not with condescension.  That's what bugged me about it.

I had exactly the same reaction, except I replied on their Facebook.  I turned it off halfway through.

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