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Force-Sensitive Exile vs. Emergent

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They are not identical, although they are very similar. The Exile is slightly more weighted towards stealthy/rouge-ish play (survival) where as the Emergent is more weighted towards working with the rebellion (teamwork) with extra toughened and grit, but there is an enormous amount of overlap between the two. From a roleplay standpoint however I am definitely more fond the Emergent than the Exile.

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There are a few differences. 

Similarities: Two ranks in uncanny senses and reactions, touch of fate, balance, insight, sense danger, force rating and dedication.

Exile: Forager, convincing demeanor, overwhelm emotions, intense focus, quick draw, sence emotions, two ranks in street smarts, sixth sense, superior reflexes. 

Emergent: Two ranks in indistinguishable, two ranks in toughened, two ranks in slight of mind, one rank in grit, invigorate, force of will.

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Really, IME, the two are equally useful, just differently able, and the force powers one opens matter more.

There is, however, a HUGE difference.
Emergent is 75 XP to Force Rating increase, while Exile is 95 XP.  

To get both Destiny and Force Rating, Emergent is 120, Exile is 100.

What this means is that the Emergent is slightly faster to increase in force power.

See, my experience is that most taking either are doing it for the access to force powers, and so the only thing that matters is how soon they can get to that additional white die, and then the additional attribute point.

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6 hours ago, AK_Aramis said:

Really, IME, the two are equally useful, just differently able, and the force powers one opens matter more.

There is, however, a HUGE difference.
Emergent is 75 XP to Force Rating increase, while Exile is 95 XP.  

To get both Destiny and Force Rating, Emergent is 120, Exile is 100.

What this means is that the Emergent is slightly faster to increase in force power.

See, my experience is that most taking either are doing it for the access to force powers, and so the only thing that matters is how soon they can get to that additional white die, and then the additional attribute point.

While I agree that this can be a slight advantage, calling it a capital-letters HUGE difference is a bit of a stretch. 20 XP isn't really that much, a little more than a single evening's play in my campaigns.

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I love the force of will talent (and currently, force sensitive emergent is the only spec in the game to get it), it synergies nicely with a consular Niman disciple (due to niman-technique in niman-disciple).  So to answer the original question, force sensitive emergent all the way.

Edited by EliasWindrider

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9 hours ago, Krieger22 said:

While I agree that this can be a slight advantage, calling it a capital-letters HUGE difference is a bit of a stretch. 20 XP isn't really that much, a little more than a single evening's play in my campaigns.

Typically, it's 1-3 sessions, depending upon session length and XP generosity of the GM. 

Its also why only one of the 12 FS non-jedi PC's I've seen played has opted for exile. One other didn't have the choice, as AoR Beta was not yet out. 

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I would argue that this game, more than most, encourages character development over always following the fastest path to perceived power

Should my GM permit it, my character may pursue force sensitivity, and after some deliberation I am inclining toward FSExile. I don't intend for this character to become a force power-house, so if I were to simply gun for the bottom of the tree, Dedication would be my first goal (95xp in either FS tree, then another 25 for Force Rating). There are also several talents which I feel are a better fit for me: Convincing Demeanor, Sense Emotions, Overwhelm Emotions can assist in a variety of checks, and 2 ranks of Street Smarts can be used for Streetwise or Underworld. 

Just another opinion. I think both trees are viable options, but the character you are going for should help inform the decision.

 

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It all depends on what fits for the character. I had a Spy for an intrigue-focused game (that never got off the ground) who was going to go through Emergent because of Indistinguishable and Sleight of Mind. On the other hand, I have a Technician who is using Exile because of Quick Draw and Intense Focus (and maybe eventually Sense Emotions).

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On 5/22/2017 at 3:12 PM, Krieger22 said:

While I agree that this can be a slight advantage, calling it a capital-letters HUGE difference is a bit of a stretch. 20 XP isn't really that much, a little more than a single evening's play in my campaigns.

I agree that there is not a huge difference in gaining Force Rating or Dedication, but there is a HUGE different in another sense:

The Force Sensitive Exile has INTENSE FOCUS, which is probably the most OP talent in the entire game.

For 1 strain per check Intense Focus basically gives you an extra rank in EVERY single SKILL at the cost of 10 XP!!!

 

The most valuable talents are those you use most often. Especially in non-combat situations, when maneuvers are not significant, its almost a no-brainer to use this talent.

And with "Balance" (which you must acquire before Intense Focus) you can use your Force Dice to regain extra Strain after an encounter! Sweet!

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1 hour ago, Fringer said:

The Force Sensitive Exile has INTENSE FOCUS, which is probably the most OP talent in the entire game.

For 1 strain per check Intense Focus basically gives you an extra rank in EVERY single SKILL at the cost of 10 XP!!!

But you do need to go down one column and back up another. 

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1 hour ago, Randy G said:

But you do need to go down one column and back up another. 

Quite so. But if you climb the tree on the right-hand side, which I recommend, then you acquire "Uncanny Reactions" twice for a total of 25 XP and going down to "Intense Focus" only costs you another 25 XP (15 XP of which is for "Balance", which is extremely useful as mentioned above).

The 2 blue on Vigilance checks that you get from "Uncanny Reactions" can be useful, particularly if you are a bit on the weak willed to start with.

The cherry (or cherries) on the top of this tree are "Superior Reflexes" and "Sixth Sense" which together give you a permanent black on all your defences. They cost 50 XP but the value of Talents that are unconditional and "always on" can hardly be overestimated.

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2 hours ago, Rogues Rule said:

I calculate and calculate but I always end up with 120 for both of them (?)

Yes, you are right, 120 for both. There is no difference in this regard.

Here is a power gamer tip:

1. Acquire the FS Exile tree first, including "Dedication", "Force Rating", "Balance" and "Intense Focus" as mentioned above. That will cost you 145 XP (*).

2. Then Aquire "Dedication" and "Force Rating" on the FS Emergent tree, which will only cost you 80 XP! (**) (*)

(*) Plus the cost of the tree, but this is 10 XP less then other non-career trees.

(**) Because you already have "Touch of Fate" and "Balance", which you don't have to pay for again!

After this you have a top Force rating of 3 and 2x Dedication, plus a some useful Talents for just over 200 XP.

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On 5/21/2017 at 10:40 PM, AK_Aramis said:

Emergent is 75 XP to Force Rating increase, while Exile is 95 XP. 

To get both Destiny and Force Rating, Emergent is 120, Exile is 100.

What this means is that the Emergent is slightly faster to increase in force power.

See, my experience is that most taking either are doing it for the access to force powers, and so the only thing that matters is how soon they can get to that additional white die, and then the additional attribute point.

When I played in your game I took Exile over Emergent because Exile offers +1 Ranged Defense from Sixth Sense and +1 Melee Defense from Superior Reflexes while Emergent offers neither. Oh sure it will take a bit longer to get to Dedication or +1 Force Rating but on the way you'll pick up +1 to a Defense and that can be very useful. When was I considering taking Emergent it was because it had two Toughened (+2 Wounds) Talents; I did not consider speed of access to +1 Force Rating. 

Edited by pnewman15
typo

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8 hours ago, pnewman15 said:

When I played in your game I took Exile over Emergent because Exile offers +1 Ranged Defense from Sixth Sense and +1 Melee Defense from Superior Reflexes while Emergent offers neither. Oh sure it will take a bit longer to get to Dedication or +1 Force Rating but on the way you'll pick up +1 to a Defense and that can be very useful. When was I considering taking Emergent it was because it had two Toughened (+2 Wounds) Talents; I did not consider speed of access to +1 Force Rating. 

You're the reason for "most," not "all".

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I really appreciate the in depth insight and hard math presented here.

I too have a force sensitive from a non F&D background and I personally opted for the Exile tree because it felt more consistent with the character's Smuggler Career.

Fringer, I had originally dismissed the idea of picking up both FSE & the FSX talent trees on the advice that someone else indicated that it wouldn't be cost effective.  In my case that might be a real issue as I purchased a third talent tree (Smuggler: Gambler) and I'm saving up for the Shien Expert tree because my character has a Cunning of 4 (and Shien Expert would let me sub out my Cunning 4 for my Lighsaber default rather than using my Brawn of 2 as the default characteristic for Lightsaber skill).  Shien Expert as a fourth talent tree will cost 50 Exp.

I'll have to take another look at my growth options, but in the short term (especially after picking up Shien Expert) my immediate plan will be to spend a metric tone of Exp on talents (not more talent trees). :D

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On 5/23/2017 at 4:14 PM, Edgehawk said:

I would argue that this game, more than most, encourages character development over always following the fastest path to perceived power

Should my GM permit it, my character may pursue force sensitivity, and after some deliberation I am inclining toward FSExile. I don't intend for this character to become a force power-house, so if I were to simply gun for the bottom of the tree, Dedication would be my first goal (95xp in either FS tree, then another 25 for Force Rating). There are also several talents which I feel are a better fit for me: Convincing Demeanor, Sense Emotions, Overwhelm Emotions can assist in a variety of checks, and 2 ranks of Street Smarts can be used for Streetwise or Underworld. 

Just another opinion. I think both trees are viable options, but the character you are going for should help inform the decision.

 

While it is true that letting a character progress naturally is usually ideal, depending on the concept, that might require certain concessions.  For example, I had a Consular Sage in a pbp a while back, and his concept was going to be group support through the Force.   He wouldn't directly fight (unless absolutely pushed to it), but he would augment his allies.  I was going to accomplish this by using Battle Meditation, to apply bonuses to my allies.  However, since BM requires an FR 2 before you can even by the basic power, trying to get to FR 2 ASAP was something of a primary concern.   I mean it was the core of his concept really.  I ended up derailing him, and branched into Slicer because he started doing some computer stuff, and never got to FR 2 before the game died, but that was the price I paid to let him naturally progress.  I ended up basically short-changing the entire concept from the start.

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3 hours ago, Mark Caliber said:

I really appreciate the in depth insight and hard math presented here.

I too have a force sensitive from a non F&D background and I personally opted for the Exile tree because it felt more consistent with the character's Smuggler Career.

Fringer, I had originally dismissed the idea of picking up both FSE & the FSX talent trees on the advice that someone else indicated that it wouldn't be cost effective.  In my case that might be a real issue as I purchased a third talent tree (Smuggler: Gambler) and I'm saving up for the Shien Expert tree because my character has a Cunning of 4 (and Shien Expert would let me sub out my Cunning 4 for my Lighsaber default rather than using my Brawn of 2 as the default characteristic for Lightsaber skill).  Shien Expert as a fourth talent tree will cost 50 Exp.

I'll have to take another look at my growth options, but in the short term (especially after picking up Shien Expert) my immediate plan will be to spend a metric tone of Exp on talents (not more talent trees). :D

50 XP buys you rank 4 in a career skill lightsaber (70xp if it ain't career) . I am not sure if at that point Shien Technique is worth it as you basically only getting a better chance for triumphs from your Cunning 4. Now shien expert has a lot of other nice things (lots of reflect and parry for example)  and if you can make use of at least 2 of those extra careers skills it still basically pays for itself.  BTW, Shien Expert is imho freaking awesome with Ebb/Flow. 

With that said, skills and talents can absorb so much xp. I played myself with the idea to give my hotshot pilot force emergent and go starfighter ace, but in the end are the XP cost for the 4th spec to heavy, combined with the issue you can sink so many xp into two specs + skills alone that it becomes super hard to actually make use of 3 specs, let alone 4, especially as signature abilities are an XP grave as well. I am still struggling with getting enough xp into my two specs to justify getting finally my 3rd spec, which is planned to be squadron commander. 

Still, FSE + FSX is a really cool idea, works great when combined with a single spec like martial artist, aggressor, charmer, etc  and a few force powers. 

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