Jump to content
Brian Downes

AABFA (Acronyms Are Bad For Armada)

Recommended Posts

19 minutes ago, RocketPropelledGiraffe said:

Oh, I didn't know that. What does ARMY stand for? :D

 

2 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Armed Response by Multiple Yankees?

Obviously this is within the context of the US armed forces. 

In the words of Donald Trump, "Wrong"

It's the experimental playground of certain political entities for implementing social and technological change. It stands for change. Take the toothbrush, for example... (you know it was invented in West Virginia because it's a "tooth"brush instead of a "teeth"brush)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Dameon13 said:

In my business communications classes, we were taught that when you are writing something and plan to use abbreviations or acronyms the correct format is to write the words out the first time followed by the acronym in parenthesis afterwards, so everyone know what you are referring back to.

I'm a biologist. I took chemistry courses, and we were taught to use IUPAC nomenclature, which has an extreme set of rules. In fact, you didn't even need to know what the molecule was in order to write out the name. For example:

(2R,3R,4S,5S,6R)-2-[(2S,3S,4S,5R)-3,4-dihydroxy-2,5-bis(hydroxymethyl)oxolan-2-yl]oxy-6-(hydroxymethyl)oxane-3,4,5-triol = C12H22O11  Sucrose = Table Sugar

It's not that hard to ask someone what TRC or OE means. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

It's not that hard to ask someone what TRC or OE means. 

Actually, it's likely that most readers are lurkers who either do not register, or only post when they feel they have something meaningful to contribute...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Hedgehogmech said:

Actually, it's likely that most readers are lurkers who either do not register, or only post when they feel they have something meaningful to contribute...

Fair point, but now the acronym page is pinned. Shouldn't be much trouble now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, BrobaFett said:

Never have I heard of someone posting on the forum in Armadaese to discourage a new player from joining the elite club that is the FFG Armada forum.

Most people just won't post, like with any complaint or hassle, most people just move on. I frequently don't post my thoughts about things because of how smug and self righteous some of the more frequent contributors are. This forum as a whole isn't exactly always welcoming to suggestions, new ideas, or differing points of view. Your post reinforces that... you might as well have just said "I don't see it as a problem so oh well". That's pretty much what a good chunk of the replies I see on here boil down to, just long drawn out ways of saying that. Some try and dress it up with stats or anecdotes, but the bottom line is the same. The rest are the complaints. This community just doesn't seem to grasp the concept that inclusiveness, accessibility and flexibility is the way to grow the community and the game, not convincing everyone of what they think is right for armada is correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Scummy Rebel said:

Most people just won't post, like with any complaint or hassle, most people just move on. I frequently don't post my thoughts about things because of how smug and self righteous some of the more frequent contributors are. This forum as a whole isn't exactly always welcoming to suggestions, new ideas, or differing points of view. Your post reinforces that... you might as well have just said "I don't see it as a problem so oh well". That's pretty much what a good chunk of the replies I see on here boil down to, just long drawn out ways of saying that. Some try and dress it up with stats or anecdotes, but the bottom line is the same. The rest are the complaints. This community just doesn't seem to grasp the concept that inclusiveness, accessibility and flexibility is the way to grow the community and the game, not convincing everyone of what they think is right for armada is correct.

You forgot to quote the part where I directly address this concern. I hardly was dismissive of the OP. I understand that acronyms present a certain amount of daunting slang that is difficult to grasp, HOWEVER their purpose is convenience, not alienation. If you wanted to join the conversation on the forum, no matter your disgust for Acronyms, you would eventually be using them simply because typing out a quick suggestion for a fleet for instance, without using them, is laborious at best.

The best we can do (and should do) is type the upgrade at least the first time it is used, and then use the abbreviation as needed. This is not too much to ask, and I don't think that level of effort is too much to ask from the people reading either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Scummy Rebel said:

Most people just won't post, like with any complaint or hassle, most people just move on. I frequently don't post my thoughts about things because of how smug and self righteous some of the more frequent contributors are. This forum as a whole isn't exactly always welcoming to suggestions, new ideas, or differing points of view. Your post reinforces that... you might as well have just said "I don't see it as a problem so oh well". That's pretty much what a good chunk of the replies I see on here boil down to, just long drawn out ways of saying that. Some try and dress it up with stats or anecdotes, but the bottom line is the same. The rest are the complaints. This community just doesn't seem to grasp the concept that inclusiveness, accessibility and flexibility is the way to grow the community and the game, not convincing everyone of what they think is right for armada is correct.

I am hostile to bending over backwards for people who dont want to post. If they dont want to be part of the community, they I wont help them be part of the community. So politely, I couldnt give two hoots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

You forgot to quote the part where I directly address this concern. I hardly was dismissive of the OP. I understand that acronyms present a certain amount of daunting slang that is difficult to grasp, HOWEVER their purpose is convenience, not alienation. If you wanted to join the conversation on the forum, no matter your disgust for Acronyms, you would eventually be using them simply because typing out a quick suggestion for a fleet for instance, without using them, is laborious at best.

The best we can do (and should do) is type the upgrade at least the first time it is used, and then use the abbreviation as needed. This is not too much to ask, and I don't think that level of effort is too much to ask from the people reading either.

I'll be the first to admit I'm basically nitpicking your post as an excuse to address a much broader issue I perceive on the forums pertaining to discussion of other issues people raise, for that I apologize. In grand scheme of things, I don't really think acronyms are a big deal, though I have no problem not using them to help someone and I find many of the subsequent suggestions and most of what you said reasonable outside of the part I quoted. Again, It's not so much what you said, more that it gave me an excuse to bring up something broader. That said I still think the game as a whole would benefit from more bending over to accommodate and less trying to convince others of how it should be, but I have no delusions of that sentiment being shared by many.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Scummy Rebel said:

Most people just won't post, like with any complaint or hassle, most people just move on. I frequently don't post my thoughts about things because of how smug and self righteous some of the more frequent contributors are. This forum as a whole isn't exactly always welcoming to suggestions, new ideas, or differing points of view. Your post reinforces that... you might as well have just said "I don't see it as a problem so oh well". That's pretty much what a good chunk of the replies I see on here boil down to, just long drawn out ways of saying that. Some try and dress it up with stats or anecdotes, but the bottom line is the same. The rest are the complaints. This community just doesn't seem to grasp the concept that inclusiveness, accessibility and flexibility is the way to grow the community and the game, not convincing everyone of what they think is right for armada is correct.

Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view

ha! I made a joke! see you said point of view and then your avatar and..... yeah.. jokes..

but in all seriousness, I'm very new here and have posted some things and found that, for the most part, people are fairly nice.  It is the internet and internet people are bad.. you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than on the internet :)

I have posted a few fleets in the fleet builds area and gotten great feedback.  My friend and I have posted a couple battle reports and received more positive feedback, both critical of and complimenting (complementing? I mean the "saying good stuff" one) the things we were doing.

I'm sorry you've felt an undercurrent of "you and your ideas don't belong here" because that's the opposite.. minus a few outliers.. of what I have experienced.  Take a look at some of the areas (rules clarification place is great!) of the forums and definitely stay away.. far far away.. from the armada is broken threads... they're no good for anyone

edit to get back on topic:  I feel not at all stupid if I have to ask what acronyms mean.  I've seen it done often and I've not once encountered someone giving off that "you're stupid don't ask that" vibe.. so I'm on the #ARG (say it like a pirate) team because they make it so easy to type things out that would normally be tedious.. Acronyms R Great!

Edited by durandal343

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/24/2017 at 10:13 AM, Undeadguy said:

Fair point, but now the acronym page is pinned. Shouldn't be much trouble now.

Except that is up to six pages (and over 140 posts) already and just looking at the last page there is a bunch that is not agreed on. Now the first page does have a nice list but it is currently over 80 long. So I guess what I am saying is that it does not look (based on page six back and forth) that the entire group is on the same page. Also with the established (I am guessing that most? I know not all as several of the things on the list mean different to my local group) list I am guessing it is a work in progress. At what point to we say enough is enough? When we get up to 100 acronyms, 500, or 1000?

7 hours ago, ouzel said:

the first time a name comes up in your post it should always be like this  " Fighter Coordination Teams (FCT) and after that just FCT is acceptable,

This is commend use and the proper use of acronyms  when writing.

I think that this is the real solution, with this you can use what ever you want as you explain what it means. Now I am not saying that the sticky is bad, as I think it is good and semi-useful. Just once you get large enough it becomes to much for lots. They do not read it all, or give up before they find what they are looking for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, CDAT said:

Except that is up to six pages (and over 140 posts) already and just looking at the last page there is a bunch that is not agreed on. Now the first page does have a nice list but it is currently over 80 long. So I guess what I am saying is that it does not look (based on page six back and forth) that the entire group is on the same page. Also with the established (I am guessing that most? I know not all as several of the things on the list mean different to my local group) list I am guessing it is a work in progress. At what point to we say enough is enough? When we get up to 100 acronyms, 500, or 1000?

Well, I'm going to keep using them regardless of what other people think or say. If someone has a question, they can ask, simple as that. I'm not going to moderate how I post fleets because that one guy without an account doesn't know what FCT is. 

This entire thread is asking for something completely unreasonable of the entire community for the sake of a theoretical audience. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

Well, I'm going to keep using them regardless of what other people think or say. If someone has a question, they can ask, simple as that. I'm not going to moderate how I post fleets because that one guy without an account doesn't know what FCT is. 

This entire thread is asking for something completely unreasonable of the entire community for the sake of a theoretical audience. 

And that is entirely your right, however you and I have differing opinions based on this thread. First I do not think following basic writing standards for the audience to be unreasonable, and second I do not think that it is a theoretical audience. Based on what I am seeing it is a very real part even of the posting community and as Ouzel (quoted below) said I do not see this being a difficult solution that makes it a non issue if followed, but it sounds like you do and so you are not going to do that. As I said that is your right, but to me it just comes off as kind of prudish, but maybe that is just me, and I do not know you or your circumstances so maybe I am reading to much into it.

 

14 hours ago, ouzel said:

the first time a name comes up in your post it should always be like this  " Fighter Coordination Teams (FCT) and after that just FCT is acceptable,

This is commend use and the proper use of acronyms  when writing.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use acronyms often enough on these forums that my phone is now also fluent in most of them. If I type a capitol I the first suggestion is I'm, followed by Imp lol, and third is ISD. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, CDAT said:

Except that is up to six pages (and over 140 posts) already and just looking at the last page there is a bunch that is not agreed on. Now the first page does have a nice list but it is currently over 80 long. So I guess what I am saying is that it does not look (based on page six back and forth) that the entire group is on the same page. Also with the established (I am guessing that most? I know not all as several of the things on the list mean different to my local group) list I am guessing it is a work in progress. At what point to we say enough is enough? When we get up to 100 acronyms, 500, or 1000?

I think that this is the real solution, with this you can use what ever you want as you explain what it means. Now I am not saying that the sticky is bad, as I think it is good and semi-useful. Just once you get large enough it becomes to much for lots. They do not read it all, or give up before they find what they are looking for.

The Glossary is effectively a dictionary. Only the first post and last page counts. DA has placed all acronyms currently approved of in the first post, and new ones are suggested in the last page(s, if DA is slow in updating). So all you need to do is go to the first page, CTRL-F and type in the name you are looking for, and it should come up. If it doesn't, do the same on the last page or two. If it still doesn't, and you're seeing it's common usage, then either ask (and post it in the Glossary thread) or if you don't have an account, settle for the long task of going through the upgrades cards that can be equipped to the ship in question and would make sense in the given context.

I agree that acronyms can be confusing, and I'm not saying you don't have a point, but really you make the Glossary out to be the entire thread, not just the first post, which you make out to be too long to read. How do you search dictionaries? You don't read every word, you skim to the letter (the Glossary is also organized alphabetically).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

The Glossary is effectively a dictionary. Only the first post and last page counts. DA has placed all acronyms currently approved of in the first post, and new ones are suggested in the last page(s, if DA is slow in updating). So all you need to do is go to the first page, CTRL-F and type in the name you are looking for, and it should come up. If it doesn't, do the same on the last page or two. If it still doesn't, and you're seeing it's common usage, then either ask (and post it in the Glossary thread) or if you don't have an account, settle for the long task of going through the upgrades cards that can be equipped to the ship in question and would make sense in the given context.

I agree that acronyms can be confusing, and I'm not saying you don't have a point, but really you make the Glossary out to be the entire thread, not just the first post, which you make out to be too long to read. How do you search dictionaries? You don't read every word, you skim to the letter (the Glossary is also organized alphabetically).

I am saying that people are lazy today, how often do you see TL/DR (to long didn't read)? Also for example I do not know what DA is standing for and either I am to lazy to look it up or I do not care enough to look it up, either way I have no idea what it stands for and it is not part of my usage. Or to be more specific what it means to me I do not think is what you were trying to say, to me it stands for Dark Age. Now if as several others have said if you just do like I did with the TL/DR and the first time that you use it really how hard is that? (not trying to pick on any person, as I guess I am as guilty as others). If we do that and people read things more often then they get used to reading them and start to know what they are standing for in the context of this forum. I think that may also be part of the problem I am guessing that I am not the only one who plays more than one game, and also in there full time jobs acronyms are used when the same thing is used in different places it may not be clear to all as it may mean something else to someone else and even if they do not think that is what you are trying to say, they may not be able to come up with what you are trying to say.

As for implying that the first glossary is the entire post, that was not my intent, I only looked at the first and last page. What I was trying to say is that right now it is not to large but when does it become to large? As it sounds like (maybe I am misreading or just missing something) like a fair number of our people use devices other than computers how easy is it for them to search (in this case I honestly do not know as I use a dumb phone, as not allowed WiFi or camera at work in phone). And what I was trying to point out was that on the last page there was a couple of discussions about acronyms (or other abbreviations) that are used, but there was not an agreement on them being in common use, one said that they were and others said that they were not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, CDAT said:

I am saying that people are lazy today, how often do you see TL/DR (to long didn't read)? Also for example I do not know what DA is standing for and either I am to lazy to look it up or I do not care enough to look it up, either way I have no idea what it stands for and it is not part of my usage. Or to be more specific what it means to me I do not think is what you were trying to say, to me it stands for Dark Age. Now if as several others have said if you just do like I did with the TL/DR and the first time that you use it really how hard is that? (not trying to pick on any person, as I guess I am as guilty as others). If we do that and people read things more often then they get used to reading them and start to know what they are standing for in the context of this forum. I think that may also be part of the problem I am guessing that I am not the only one who plays more than one game, and also in there full time jobs acronyms are used when the same thing is used in different places it may not be clear to all as it may mean something else to someone else and even if they do not think that is what you are trying to say, they may not be able to come up with what you are trying to say.

As for implying that the first glossary is the entire post, that was not my intent, I only looked at the first and last page. What I was trying to say is that right now it is not to large but when does it become to large? As it sounds like (maybe I am misreading or just missing something) like a fair number of our people use devices other than computers how easy is it for them to search (in this case I honestly do not know as I use a dumb phone, as not allowed WiFi or camera at work in phone). And what I was trying to point out was that on the last page there was a couple of discussions about acronyms (or other abbreviations) that are used, but there was not an agreement on them being in common use, one said that they were and others said that they were not.

My apologies, DA stands for DiabloAzul :D

Again, I understand that people can't always understand acronyms. I also get that many people don't agree on which acronyms to use. But 
1) The glossary's first post has all the common ones, nicely organized by letter. Perhaps as it gets longer Diablo will place clearer separations based on letter.
2) The last page, while full of discussion, does contain many acronyms, so even if they're not agreed on, they exist, and are used, so may help you
3) If people are too lazy to look up a 'word' in a 'dictionary', then I find it hard to blame for them for being too lazy to type out the full word when the context should (at least to them) make it obvious.
As others have pointed out, FC/FCT in the context of Yavaris should, at the very least, give you a clue as to what is being discussed. Even if you don't know the acronyms, Yavaris is famous for being a Neb-B that commands squadrons. What upgrades, in which slots, aid her in that regard? In narrows down your search considerably. I agree that spelling out names the first time is a practice that would be nice to make common, but again, in a thread labeled (for example) 'Disposable Capacitors and the VSD II/Interdictor', one shouldn't have to explain what 'DC' stands for. Nor, indeed, VSD-II or Vic since if DC is an upgrade, to what can it be equipped? Similarly in my post, 'DA' was, I thought, obvious given that I was discussing somebody's actions in third person concerning a thread started by a username whose initials were 'DA'.

So yes, acronyms can be confusing. Yes, people are lazy and don't want to look things up, but if that's an excuse then so is "I'm lazy and don't want to spell out Fighter Coordination Teams from my phone". So if you request people to accommodate you by spelling out the word once then please also expect others to go through the bother of looking up or figuring out acronyms that should be obvious (as in the above DC example). Especially when forum members have been kind enough to make time to put together a Glossary, and especially when it's long, since that means that it's pretty comprehensive and they've spent a lot of time doing it.

Again, context. What bearing does Dark Ages have on a discussion about a Glossary for Armada terms? I don't mean this as an attack on you, but you provided me with an example. Instead of randomly coming up with word that could fit an acronym (which, admittedly, is a fun pastime), one can attempt to come to a logical conclusion based on what the context is: VSD. Context: Star Wars Armada ships that like DC. Not 'Very Sad Defeat', not 'Very Spicy Doritos'. :D

 

P.S. Sorry if this seems like a rant or a diatribe. . . it isn't. . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. This is a very accepting community.  Yes, it is public, so there are "issues".  However, when folks ask questions or give suggestions, you will get ANSWERS and OPINIONS (OMG you will get OPINIONS.) You might get snark. You might get sarcasm. You will rarely ever be told to go away.

2. Acronitialisnyms (all for you @Snipafist) just make it easier to post stuff, especially on mobile devices.  I think this is a real uphill battle you are facing to change this.

3. The community felt the complaint was valid enough, and got a very good post stickied to help.  That makes me happy.  I think it should make you happy too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

My apologies, DA stands for DiabloAzul :D

Again, I understand that people can't always understand acronyms. I also get that many people don't agree on which acronyms to use. But 
1) The glossary's first post has all the common ones, nicely organized by letter. Perhaps as it gets longer Diablo will place clearer separations based on letter.
2) The last page, while full of discussion, does contain many acronyms, so even if they're not agreed on, they exist, and are used, so may help you
3) If people are too lazy to look up a 'word' in a 'dictionary', then I find it hard to blame for them for being too lazy to type out the full word when the context should (at least to them) make it obvious.
As others have pointed out, FC/FCT in the context of Yavaris should, at the very least, give you a clue as to what is being discussed. Even if you don't know the acronyms, Yavaris is famous for being a Neb-B that commands squadrons. What upgrades, in which slots, aid her in that regard? In narrows down your search considerably. I agree that spelling out names the first time is a practice that would be nice to make common, but again, in a thread labeled (for example) 'Disposable Capacitors and the VSD II/Interdictor', one shouldn't have to explain what 'DC' stands for. Nor, indeed, VSD-II or Vic since if DC is an upgrade, to what can it be equipped? Similarly in my post, 'DA' was, I thought, obvious given that I was discussing somebody's actions in third person concerning a thread started by a username whose initials were 'DA'.

So yes, acronyms can be confusing. Yes, people are lazy and don't want to look things up, but if that's an excuse then so is "I'm lazy and don't want to spell out Fighter Coordination Teams from my phone". So if you request people to accommodate you by spelling out the word once then please also expect others to go through the bother of looking up or figuring out acronyms that should be obvious (as in the above DC example). Especially when forum members have been kind enough to make time to put together a Glossary, and especially when it's long, since that means that it's pretty comprehensive and they've spent a lot of time doing it.

Again, context. What bearing does Dark Ages have on a discussion about a Glossary for Armada terms? I don't mean this as an attack on you, but you provided me with an example. Instead of randomly coming up with word that could fit an acronym (which, admittedly, is a fun pastime), one can attempt to come to a logical conclusion based on what the context is: VSD. Context: Star Wars Armada ships that like DC. Not 'Very Sad Defeat', not 'Very Spicy Doritos'. :D

 

P.S. Sorry if this seems like a rant or a diatribe. . . it isn't. . .

I was saying that I did not know what you were saying with DA, but when I read it I read Dark Ages. Now I knew that was not what you were trying to say. I was just using it as an example of how the acronyms used can mean things to others, and try as I could I could not come up with anything that fit for Armada. I was not sure if that was because it was a card that I do not have (I play one faction, and do have some but not all of the other faction, so there are cards out there that I do not have and have not seen). Or was it just a case of I use that term to mean something else and now my brain is stuck and I am missing the elephant in the room because my brain is saying that I know what it is even when I know that is not what you were trying to say. It did not ever occur to me that DA was for someones name, and I could not come up with what card it was referring to.

Maybe it is just that I am older (guessing) than many of the people on here, but I see it a bit different I do not see it as them accommodating me (or who ever) by spelling out the word the first time. That has been for decades at least the basic standard, it is not followed by everyone today as they are to lazy to do it (or just do not know that it is expected). Also it is much easier I think on all to do that than to have someone have to leave the page they are on to go and look up the acronym so they can come back to reading the post, to maybe have to do this all over again in the same post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...