Newcomers to L5R: thoughts so far?

[Vase 12]

Hello, I'm wondering what the general feeling is so far from people who did not play the old L5R. I'm curious because I'm not a veteran of the game, and the gameplay previews we've seen so far don't seem like anything special to me. It seems like longtime L5R fans are pretty enthusiastic though, and I wonder how much of that is because of familiarity with theme and the original game.

I'm interested in jumping in to L5R and investing into the LCG longterm, but I guess I'm hesitant because of what happened with the Star Wars LCG. People who are fans of Star Wars were very enthusiastic about the game for obvious reasons. I know I was. But the actual gameplay was really not very good. Sure, some people really love that game, and that's great. But there's no question that it underachieved. I guess my point is: if the theme of that game was unpopular and obscure, instead of Star Wars, it would likely have been a total flop. The theme is the only thing saving it, in my opinion. Is there a similar situation happening for L5R?

[Drudenfusz 426]

Well, from what I have seen so far from this game it looks like many issues the old CCG had got addressed and people played that with all the flaws for a long time. I hope FFG play tested this game thoroughly, since I hope to have fun with it for a long time!

[Spawnod 80]

It seems like an interesting game, but it will be hard to tell how well it will do until after a few expansions. At minimum I would expect 2 years of decent support/interest. The setting is a turn off for some people and the superficial swingy gameplay might also be an issue. Also, keep in mind most people on this thread are generally more enthusiastic bunch than your general gamer.

[Ide Yoshiya 879]

I'm not a newcomer, but I would just like to point out a distinction: existing fans of L5R are, by and large, coming from the CCG itself, whereas Star Wars fans picked up an entirely new game in the LCG, being fans of the Star Wars setting, and/or the earlier CCGs which had no connection with the LCG's gameplay. I do share your concern about this, however.

[JJ48 7,102]

38 minutes ago, Spawnod said:

It seems like an interesting game, but it will be hard to tell how well it will do until after a few expansions. At minimum I would expect 2 years of decent support/interest. The setting is a turn off for some people and the superficial swingy gameplay might also be an issue. Also, keep in mind most people on this thread are generally more enthusiastic bunch than your general gamer.

What do you mean by "superficial swingy gameplay"?

[Zalari 74]

Super excited. Feels like this game was made with me in mind. Knew nothing about L5R before, but have gotten into all sorts of relevant info and lore I've been able to get my hands on.

[Mr Omura 84]

I played only a few games of Old5r and lamented that such a nice piece of IP was wasted on a game with such weak mechanics. I also have strong negative feelings about the CCG model and how the old story completely jumped the shark, both of which contributed to me not investing in the game.

The new game appears to have addressed virtually all my issues. So, yes, I'm very excited for the release!

[Ide Yoshiya 879]

9 minutes ago, Mr Omura said:

I played only a few games of Old5r and lamented that such a nice piece of IP was wasted on a game with such weak mechanics. I also have strong negative feelings about the CCG model and how the old story completely jumped the shark, both of which contributed to me not investing in the game.

The new game appears to have addressed virtually all my issues. So, yes, I'm very excited for the release!

Considering how early in our ostensible samurai drama our Emperor became possessed by a supernatural menace, I'm not sure how much of a shark there was to jump.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Ide Yoshiya

[Mr Omura 84]

Just now, Ide Yoshiya said:

Considering how early in our ostensible "samurai drama" our Emperor became possessed by a supernatural menace, I'm not sure how much of a shark there was to jump.

I can accept fantastic, supernatural occurrences in a fantasy setting. No problem there.

The problem is when behaviors or motivations of characters/groups don't make a whit of sense or story plots resolve in an irrational manner. The most obvious and largest blunder would be the inclusion of the spider as a great clan.

[Badmojojojo 68]

Vase, my Star Wars LCG group, still going strong after many years, would disagree with you. We love the game! The decline in players I have seen stems from slow and unsteady product releases and some bad power creep and rule erratas. This could easily happen to L5R if FFG does not focus on balance and player base demands.

I am excited about L5R, but am tired of buying into new LCG like card games and not finding anyone to play with due to the cannibalism of so many games on the market separating the players. Hopefully, L5R can be the "one" Rings game to bind them. 

Edited May 19, 2017 by Badmojojojo
spelling errors

[Doji Tori 168]

I never actually played the old card game, but the fact that this game will be based on a long lived product gives me confidence, specially since a lot of people that did play the previous version seem to think they have corrected a lot of the previous problems.

The revealed rules so far really draw me in by themselves. Flat resources, variable draw, two decks and fading board state are things I've never played with before and it seems like it could be fun.

However, I have never played a lcg before, and I would have likely ignored this one too if I weren't interested in the setting.

[Spawnod 80]

5 hours ago, JJ48 said:

What do you mean by "superficial swingy gameplay"?

Maybe not the best wording. I meant that a player could lose and not understand why because the game does not have an "always stable" state. Like in magic I can figure out a few moments that turned the game. While in this game it may seem like you can lose out of very quickly. I am probably over exaggerating a bit.

[HidaYama 127]

5 minutes ago, Spawnod said:

Maybe not the best wording. I meant that a player could lose and not understand why because the game does not have an "always stable" state. Like in magic I can figure out a few moments that turned the game. While in this game it may seem like you can lose out of very quickly. I am probably over exaggerating a bit.

How is it unstable? The mechanics allow for some recovery from smaller mistakes, unlike the old l5r where it built to one moment and if you made a mistake at that moment the game was lost and all that was left was to play it out.

[MoZi 97]

59 minutes ago, HidaYama said:

How is it unstable? The mechanics allow for some recovery from smaller mistakes, unlike the old l5r where it built to one moment and if you made a mistake at that moment the game was lost and all that was left was to play it out.

That was partially due to play style and obviously during different periods of the game it was just more susceptible to the "one battle to rule them all" thing. But I think there were always play styles and decks that seemed to be able to avoid those situations almost completely so that the game would turn on a series of decisions instead of one. Certainly for newer players in L5R there was almost always a tendency to let the board state overwhelm them into inaction or at least away from confrontation which then leads to an arms race.

As someone who has played L5R on an off for a long time I can say with certainty that there was much more good than bad in the mechanics of the game once you accepted some limitations. There was a lot of creativity to be had not only in deck construction but just play style and mentality. As long as FFG is able to continue on, and it looks like they are, the strategic depth of L5R I am pretty certain that all the old players are going to hang around and support it heavily. As far as newcomers and the LCG are concerned I am really hoping that the changes they have made get rid of some of the unattractive barriers to entry that the game had for casual players. 

Edited May 20, 2017 by MoZi

[Mandalore525 249]

I never played the old CCG. I got interested in the game at right about the time that they announced the CCG would end and be replaced by an LCG. Because the setting really interested me, I made a mental note to look back into the game once they announced more about the LCG product. I will freely admit that I am 90% into this game because of the setting, not the gameplay. I really love the fact that, at least in the CCG, people would go to tournaments try to fight for THEIR clan, instead of just playing whatever the new hotness at the time was (although I'm sure some people did that too). I've also played games like Magic, but its competitive scene always felt heartless to me because people at local tournaments and FNMs wouldn't play what they liked in the world or story, but whatever netdecks were the "best" at the time. If FFG can manage to get at least a sizable portion of the playerbase to play for their CLAN, and not be fairweather fans and switch according to what is dominant, then I will be very happy with this game.

That being said, what I have seen thus far about the gameplay does look very good to me. I get annoyed sometimes at how other games will spiral out of control due to board state, and how oftentimes holding out past a certain point is useless because you simply cannot recover. I love that the LCG has a board state that can fluctuate more, and make fighting a losing battle not be pointless because you can potentially get a comeback. I also like that there is more to the game than just military conflicts. Sure, I'll probably play mostly military-focused decks, but I appreciate that they give other fans what they want instead of JUST trying to appeal to what I like. All of this together makes me really excited to pick up my first Core Set, build a deck, and go fight for the wisdom of the Dragon Clan.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Mandalore525
Corrected a grammar fail.

[LordBlunt 368]

Mandalore525, you had me at "go fight for the wisdom of the Dragon Clan."

[Yoritomo Reiu 125]

13 hours ago, Vase said:

Hello, I'm wondering what the general feeling is so far from people who did not play the old L5R. I'm curious because I'm not a veteran of the game, and the gameplay previews we've seen so far don't seem like anything special to me. It seems like longtime L5R fans are pretty enthusiastic though, and I wonder how much of that is because of familiarity with theme and the original game.

I'll be honest. I'm here solely because of the theme and the original game.

The new game doesn't look bad by any means, but the gameplay previews haven't impressed me enough that I would be picking it up if it wasn't L5R.

[trubrujah 53]

I never played the CCG, but have played the RPG and loved the setting immensely.  I had a few friends that played the CCG, but never got into it because by the time I found out about it, it was halfway through its lifespan and just seemed too difficult and expensive to try and get into at that point.  I am super excited for this game, even more so for the mechanics.  I love the player driven aspect of Fate choice and Honor decisions.  It seems like two decks that are identical can deliver vastly different play experiences based on player decisions, and that is brilliant.  It seems like it will be the LCG equivalent of chess, with strategy, tactics and alot of back and forth all driven by player choice.  I can't wait!

[TechnoGolem 223]

I came into the old game pretty late in it's life span. I heard about it when it first came out but never gave it a chance simply because a new CCG was coming out and dying every other day at the time. Due to life I had to leave the game a little before the end. I was very sad to hear the game was coming to and end because I really did love that people could effect the storyline, the setting, and yes, even the mechanics. 

Fantasy Flight has announced stuff that has me both worried and happy. I doubt I'd give the game a chance if it was another CCG but that is mostly due to the insane cost that tends to be involved with those games. I do find myself very excited because it is in a LCG format. Even if I end up disliking the game, I could see myself buying the expansions just to put the cards in binders and look at the art from time to time.

 

[Shu Koto 1]

Newcomer here. Never played the old game, but did collect some of the cards as a kid. Magic stole my interest around the same time and has been my main card game since (going on 15 year or so, so I'm very familiar with card games and the CCG model). I've also played some Conquest and Destiny, but mostly casually with friends and never in a competitive setting. 

I'm super stoked. For many reasons, but here are a few:

• LCG instead of CCG = cheaper and easier to collect, and then also easier to get involved in the competitive scene. 
• It's not an entirely new game, but rather based very closely on an existing game that was well-loved and heavily played. That says a lot about the core mechanics and general design. It think it's fair to assume, that if it's close to the old game, which it looks like it is, it will at the very least be a relatively well-designed game that is fun and engaging to play. A lot less risk than with an entirely new game.
• Story Prizes? Get outta town. That's so awesome. I really like the idea of clan identity and community and then also being able to directly influence the story and future card designs. That is something that would probably never happen with Magic and I'm really excited about the concept. Hopefully they can execute!
• Mechanically, I think the signs are all good so far. Lots of hidden information (bidding for cards/dueling, provinces, conflict deck,etc.), not such a heavy focus on curve and resource generation (leads to getting 'flooded' or 'screwed' - variance is great to an extent, but I think minimizing it in terms of resource accumulation is generally a good thing), distinct clans/factions with different mechanics/playstyles and even win conditions (this is huge and so far it seems like they're doing a pretty good job of it.  *edit: This also means deckbuilding can be a source of endless entertainment. A big part of what makes Magic so successful is the endless number of viable options you have when deckbuilding*) If the clans all end up feeling pretty much the same, I'll be hugely disappointed.)
   

Of course, I'll have to actually play the game like everyone else to see if it's really the engaging, 'different every time', skill-based, deck-building and style-reliant game it appears to be. I do LOVE the flavor though. That's about 45% of my hype at this point. Ha

Edited May 20, 2017 by Shu Kōtō

[Doji Guard 1]

Old players are welcoming this new L5R. It has good and revolutionnaries ideas.

However, we'll see if removing the drawbacks will make the game boring. At least I'll buy and try in the beginning.

The difference with many other card games, is that it comes from one. It does not come from a book or from a movie. The story at first had to adapt to the game. So it had made an excellent game 20 years ago.

Even I prefer Lord of the Ring story, I prefer L5R games.

[slowreflex 445]

I'm looking forward to it, but there does seem to be a divide between old and new players right now.  I don't think it's intentional though, just different levels of knowledge and different expectations.

[Ide Yoshiya 879]

4 hours ago, slowreflex said:

I'm looking forward to it, but there does seem to be a divide between old and new players right now.  I don't think it's intentional though, just different levels of knowledge and different expectations.

I find myself cautiously optimistic.

And spiteful beyond words that we're expected to sign up for the Gen Con buy-in tourney whilst having zero knowledge of whether or not there is a multiplayer variant planned, but that's another issue altogether.

[HirumaShigure 636]

4 hours ago, slowreflex said:

I'm looking forward to it, but there does seem to be a divide between old and new players right now.  I don't think it's intentional though, just different levels of knowledge and different expectations.

Sorry you feel this way.  I personally used to eat, drink, and breath L5R. especially during the Race for the Throne. Even now, ever since the articles dropped,  my interest in other games pretty much dried up over night.  I was just about to get heavily invested in Star Wars Destiny.  I'm going to hold off on buying the next waves of  Armada,  X-Wing, and Imperial Assault. Even Arkham Horror and Lord of the Rings are probably going to come to an end for me. L5R becoming an LCG, rebooting story,  and new mechanics are probably going to be enough for me to "put all my eggs in one basket". Maybe that's bad for FFG, but boy is it good for me!  L5R has been my go to universe for the past 15 years. 

[profparm 172]

23 minutes ago, HirumaShigure said:

Sorry you feel this way.  I personally used to eat, drink, and breath L5R. especially during the Race for the Throne. Even now, ever since the articles dropped,  my interest in other games pretty much dried up over night.  I was just about to get heavily invested in Star Wars Destiny.  I'm going to hold off on buying the next waves of  Armada,  X-Wing, and Imperial Assault. Even Arkham Horror and Lord of the Rings are probably going to come to an end for me. L5R becoming an LCG, rebooting story,  and new mechanics are probably going to be enough for me to "put all my eggs in one basket". Maybe that's bad for FFG, but boy is it good for me!  L5R has been my go to universe for the past 15 years. 

I know the feels.  After opening 2 boxes of the new destiny set and getting very solid but boring legendaries, my local scene already has more people interested in l5r than star wars here, and the difficulty of even obtaining the Arkham horror product locally, it's very close to me just trying to sell off my other FFG products and just use this as my card game of choice.

 

Of course, I do want to wait until seeing how the game plays at GenCon before going too crazy....