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Death Knight Expansion

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41 minutes ago, Budgernaut said:

This was my thought, as well. Now that both core factions have their heroes previewed and new units announced, they are on equal ground. Now is the perfect time to reveal the Uthuk Y'llan. I've got my hopes up for next week! But I'm prepared for disappointment, as well. 

I won't be disappointed if Darnati get announced next.  I want elves to get on equal footing ASAP.  I just hope that they also announce the 'new' unit for Uthuk relatively quickly after Uthuk are announced.  

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1 hour ago, flightmaster101 said:

Hopefully Daqan get some light cavalry that are more mobile, but dont hit as hard (or something)

Oathsworn are able to take Wind Rune and the Death Knights can't. 

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6 minutes ago, Willange said:

I won't be disappointed if Darnati get announced next.  I want elves to get on equal footing ASAP.  I just hope that they also announce the 'new' unit for Uthuk relatively quickly after Uthuk are announced.  

What are Darnati?

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Dang, getting some real cavalry envy looking at these. Base 3 defense PLUS mortal wound resistance makes them considerably more durable than Oathsworn, plus slightly better impact and Steadfast (fear) which is a nice bonus. I like the dial considerably more as well - they're a bit slower overall, but very similar speed while charging, and they have CONSIDERABLY more flexibility with the reform modifier and access to a shift maneuver. Mortal Strike vs Hit modifier is a bit of a wash, and the attack initiative is consistent with the Spearmen-Reanimate comparison, so I wouldn't call that an advantage either way so much as a style difference between the armies. Artifact upgrade is quite interesting. Currently I'd say it's better than equipment, but that's obviously subject to change.

They will surely be fearsome.

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1 minute ago, jonboyjon1990 said:

Anyone else surprised to see the sheer volume of stuff for Q3 release? Now I know it's FFG and things will slip, but I get the impression that until all 4 factions have a ton of units out there, they're looking to have roughly monthly releases. 

It's starting to look that way. It seems to me that they really are ramping up to get all four factions ready for The Runewars this fall at FFG Worlds. Sounds awesome! I hope all the boats and docks cooperate :)

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1 hour ago, Willange said:

I think new light cavalry would be awesome.  You could also just use a titles system similar to x-wing to accomplish this I think.

That's what I also think willl happen. Riverwatch Riders could also be one of these titles for the Oathsworn Cavalry as well as Citadel Guard for the Spearmen.

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1 minute ago, Rentner65 said:

That's what I also think willl happen. Riverwatch Riders could also be one of these titles for the Oathsworn Cavalry as well as Citadel Guard for the Spearmen.

The models in this game are expensive enough that I hope to see new models for new units, rather than using a title system. Although truth be told, the title system already exists to some degree with the figure upgrades. The same figure upgrade can have different effects depending on which of its upgrade cards are used (especially thinking of the heavy upgrades and also the infantry command figures).

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3 minutes ago, Budgernaut said:

The models in this game are expensive enough that I hope to see new models for new units, rather than using a title system. Although truth be told, the title system already exists to some degree with the figure upgrades. The same figure upgrade can have different effects depending on which of its upgrade cards are used (especially thinking of the heavy upgrades and also the infantry command figures).

What if they sold packs that included a new unit card and dials using the same miniatures.  Those would probably be really cheap for FFG to print and sell.  Basically use the same oathsworn miniature, but different stats.  At that point they could have several options for which unit card and dial you want to use for the unit in the pack.

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39 minutes ago, Bhelliom said:

Dang, getting some real cavalry envy looking at these. Base 3 defense PLUS mortal wound resistance makes them considerably more durable than Oathsworn, plus slightly better impact and Steadfast (fear) which is a nice bonus. I like the dial considerably more as well - they're a bit slower overall, but very similar speed while charging, and they have CONSIDERABLY more flexibility with the reform modifier and access to a shift maneuver. Mortal Strike vs Hit modifier is a bit of a wash, and the attack initiative is consistent with the Spearmen-Reanimate comparison, so I wouldn't call that an advantage either way so much as a style difference between the armies. Artifact upgrade is quite interesting. Currently I'd say it's better than equipment, but that's obviously subject to change.

They will surely be fearsome.

I'm trying to figure out what the catch is with these guys. They aren't much more expensive than the Oathsworn and seem to get a lot for that handful of extra points. I guess that the Oathsworn might be stronger against big units with 1 defense, 1 wound? Shield of Margath kind of evens that back up though.  

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Just now, backupsidekick said:

What if they sold packs that included a new unit card and dials using the same miniatures.  Those would probably be really cheap for FFG to print and sell.  Basically use the same oathsworn miniature, but different stats.  At that point they could have several options for which unit card and dial you want to use for the unit in the pack.

Yeah, but if I'm paying $25 for two trays, I'd like to see new models. It would definitely be cheaper for FFG, but that doesn't mean the expansion would be less expensive for the consumer.

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Slightly disappointed they went with the "obvious" choice of Death Knights but happy to see they're getting cavalry.

1 hour ago, Budgernaut said:

It's funny that these horses are mobile enough to shift while the Oathsworn Cavalry cannot. Coming from BattleLore where Death Knights have a speed of 2 and Riverwatch Riders have a speed of 4, it certainly wasn't something I expected.

While the Death Knights have the artifact(?) upgrade icon they're missing the suit of armor icon(I need to start learning their names!)... so no Wind Rune for the Death Knights.  Oathsworn Cavalry can take it which is a tremendous maneuverability boost, especially if the runes come up green.

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2 minutes ago, backupsidekick said:

What if they sold packs that included a new unit card and dials using the same miniatures. Those would probably be really cheap for FFG to print and sell. Basically use the same oathsworn miniature, but different stats. At that point they could have several options for which unit card and dial you want to use for the unit in the pack.

I'd hate that. Those packs would represent poor value for most consumers. It'd be seen as a rip-off. 

I was my hobby dollars to go towards cool new figures. Plus, functionally, new unit = new figures. Anything else would be confusing

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Just now, jonboyjon1990 said:

I'd hate that. Those packs would represent poor value for most consumers. It'd be seen as a rip-off. 

I was my hobby dollars to go towards cool new figures. Plus, functionally, new unit = new figures. Anything else would be confusing

So, let's take a hypothetical jump here, IF they sold a set of 4 new unit cards, and 4 new dials to go with them so you could have faster units, or harder hitting units, more defensive units, or more situational units, and it was $5, you'd hate that and it would represent poor value?   I'm not saying it has to match the same pricing model, but that might be a simple choice for customizing your team.  It could even come as a whole team pack, $25 for 4 new unit cards and dials for each unit in the army.  Imagine a different Ardus, or Kari.  I understand that new models are great, that's not disputed, this is just a different way to customize your team.

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6 minutes ago, backupsidekick said:

So, let's take a hypothetical jump here, IF they sold a set of 4 new unit cards, and 4 new dials to go with them so you could have faster units, or harder hitting units, more defensive units, or more situational units, and it was $5, you'd hate that and it would represent poor value? I'm not saying it has to match the same pricing model, but that might be a simple choice for customizing your team. It could even come as a whole team pack, $25 for 4 new unit cards and dials for each unit in the army. Imagine a different Ardus, or Kari. I understand that new models are great, that's not disputed, this is just a different way to customize your team.

Firstly, I misunderstood your original comment - I thought you were saying a pack containing the same minis, with new cards and dials etc. 

And secondly there's hardly any precedent for FFG to release expansions for their minis games, without minis in them. 

There's literally no need for what your calling for - If you want different units, just have different units. There's no business case for FFG to do it either. 

Edited by jonboyjon1990

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1 minute ago, jonboyjon1990 said:

Firstly, I misunderstood your original comment - I thought you were saying a pack containing the same minis, with new cards and dials etc. 

And secondly there's hardly any precedent for FFG to release expansions for their minis games, with minis in them. 

There's literally no need for what your calling for - If you want different units, just have different units. There's no business case for FFG to do it either. 

It would be similar (not the same, but similar) to what they did with Descent first and second edition with the conversion kit.  They gave players more options without miniatures, just cards.

 

Now, in honestly this will likely never happen, but I would like the idea if priced right.

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Just now, backupsidekick said:

It would be similar (not the same, but similar) to what they did with Descent first and second edition with the conversion kit. They gave players more options without miniatures, just cards.

 

Now, in honestly this will likely never happen, but I would like the idea if priced right.

Yeah, but that's clearly not the same kind of product. It won't happen the way you're describing. 

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15 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

I'm trying to figure out what the catch is with these guys. They aren't much more expensive than the Oathsworn and seem to get a lot for that handful of extra points. I guess that the Oathsworn might be stronger against big units with 1 defense, 1 wound? Shield of Margath kind of evens that back up though.  

I was thinking it may have something to do with maxing out at six trays instead of having the 9-tray option of the Oathsworn Cavalry. However, adding Column Tactics to either unit makes that next step not worth very much. You can have 3 threat with a 2x3 formation for an extra 4 points, or pay 22 more points for that extra reroll in the Oathsworn Cavalry. The only catch is that you lose access to other Training upgrades.

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Just now, jonboyjon1990 said:

Yeah, but that's clearly not the same kind of product. It won't happen the way you're describing. 

(to lighten the mood, but I get what you're saying) minitures game, based in the Terrinoth universe, with monsters and heroes battling with dice, made by FFG, using the same heroes as are in Descent, and some would say the exact same molds... no nothing alike...

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1 minute ago, rudedog said:

Isn't their base dial a wind rune?  I mean a blue move 1-2-3 and then a reform?

The Oathsworn with Wind Rune can march, then shift+reform with Wind Rune. The Death Knights can march+reform or shift+reform, but not both. The Death Knights also don't have to rely on runes for their shift.

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