Double Tie/SF + 1 help

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

3 hours ago, SOTL said:

Autoblaster on Aggressor... no.  Autoblaster is just bad, it's not a good card.

Drop Omega Leader for a TLT Aggressor... no.  HELL, no.


Drop Omega Leader for Deathfire with Cruise Missiles?  Oh yeah, maybe...

I think I've cracked an improvement...

• Quickdraw - Draw Their Fire, Fire Control System, Lightweight Frame, Special Ops Training, Targeting Synchroniser
• Colonel Vessery - A Score To Settle, Flechette Cannon, TIE/D
• Deathfire - Cruise Missiles, Cluster Mines, Extra Munitions, Guidance Chips

There's a pretty good chance this squad goes through Dengar like a knife through hot butter.  Deathfire alone averages 6.7 damage against Countermeasures/Overlocked Dengar from a Cruise Missiles and Cluster Bombs run.

 

Looks like a downgrade, honestly. Targeting Synchroniser means one of Quickdraw's shots is going to have less mods anytime you spend the TL w/ Deathfire, Vessery's cannon has a lot less control, and Deathfire, while definitely upping the initial damage, swaps out the best end-game ship in the list.

Not saying it's a bad setup, but I wouldn't say it's better beyond the Alpha Strike than the previously proposed list.

[SOTL 3,229]

1 minute ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

Looks like a downgrade, honestly. Targeting Synchroniser means one of Quickdraw's shots is going to have less mods anytime you spend the TL w/ Deathfire, Vessery's cannon has a lot less control, and Deathfire, while definitely upping the initial damage, swaps out the best end-game ship in the list.

Not saying it's a bad setup, but I wouldn't say it's better beyond the Alpha Strike than the previously proposed list.

Beyond the alpha strike?  No.  But that alpha strike... strong chance you're throwing 16 red dice downrange, all well-modded, then capping it with a Cluster Bomb.  Not much walks through that.
 

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

4 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Beyond the alpha strike?  No.  But that alpha strike... strong chance you're throwing 16 red dice downrange, all well-modded, then capping it with a Cluster Bomb.  Not much walks through that.
 

Yeah, you pull it off, you've got one depressed enemy. The former is just easier to run, with an eye towards the long game, which is why I don't know if I'd consider the Deathfire version an upgrade.

But, when I'm not running my Deci list, I tend to focus on the long game, so I'm likely prejudiced.

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

I think I'll try:

 

• Quickdraw - Draw Their Fire, Fire Control System, Lightweight Frame, Special Ops Training, Pattern Analyser, Cruise Missiles
• Colonel Vessery - A Score To Settle, Ion Cannon, TIE/D, Cruise Missiles
• Countdown - Adaptive Ailerons

Bit of the Alpha with the Cruise Missiles (or some surprise hate later, if the opening engagement doesn't favor them), and I've been enjoying how Countdown just refused to leave the board, no matter what kind of awfulness I throw him at.

[Guest *SOLAR FLARE]

Cruise Missiles?

[Biophysical 15,761]

18 minutes ago, SOLAR FLARE said:

Cruise Missiles?

Check the main page.  Last stuff from wave 11 spoiled.

[Guest *SOLAR FLARE]

Found it. Thinkin of something like Ryad doing a 4 or 5 K-Turn with Cruise Missiles, Chips and Outmanouver after target got tractored. So many fun combinations.

[Guest *SOLAR FLARE]

So what about this:

TIE Defender: · Countess Ryad (34)
     Outmaneuver (3)

     Cruise Missiles (3)
     Guidance Chips (0)
TIE/fo Fighter: · "Omega Leader" (21)
     Veteran Instincts (1)
     Targeting Synchronizer (3)
TIE/sf Fighter: · "Quickdraw" (29)
     Veteran Instincts (1)

     Cruise Missiles (3)
     Fire Control System (2)
     Guidance Chips (0)
     Special Ops Training (0)
-- TOTAL ------- 100pts. --

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

8 minutes ago, SOLAR FLARE said:

So what about this:

TIE Defender: · Countess Ryad (34)
     Outmaneuver (3)

     Cruise Missiles (3)
     Guidance Chips (0)
TIE/fo Fighter: · "Omega Leader" (21)
     Veteran Instincts (1)
     Targeting Synchronizer (3)
TIE/sf Fighter: · "Quickdraw" (29)
     Veteran Instincts (1)

     Cruise Missiles (3)
     Fire Control System (2)
     Guidance Chips (0)
     Special Ops Training (0)
-- TOTAL ------- 100pts. --

I wouldn't recommend that Omega Leader setup. I know you're counting on the fact that you don't NEED to spend the TL, but, with up to five dice, you're going to really, really want to. Except you really, really shouldn't (most likely).

Use Epsilon Ace if you're really looking for a high PS target lock feeder.

[Archidroid 41]

4 hours ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

4 hours ago, SOLAR FLARE said:

So what about this:

TIE Defender: · Countess Ryad (34)
     Outmaneuver (3)

     Cruise Missiles (3)
     Guidance Chips (0)
TIE/fo Fighter: · "Omega Leader" (21)
     Veteran Instincts (1)
     Targeting Synchronizer (3)
TIE/sf Fighter: · "Quickdraw" (29)
     Veteran Instincts (1)

     Cruise Missiles (3)
     Fire Control System (2)
     Guidance Chips (0)
     Special Ops Training (0)
-- TOTAL ------- 100pts. --

I wouldn't recommend that Omega Leader setup. I know you're counting on the fact that you don't NEED to spend the TL, but, with up to five dice, you're going to really, really want to. Except you really, really shouldn't (most likely).

Use Epsilon Ace if you're really looking for a high PS target lock feeder.

Quickdraw is already PS11 in this setup. Why not put synchronizer on him? After he takes TL, fires his cruise missile, he gets another TL thru FCS. Ryad can then use that to fire off her cruise missile. Use the remaining points on some other ship.

[CubsFanSean23 17]

 What about this?

 

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v4!s!261:20,135,-1,-1:-1:31:;208:140,36,-1,-1:42:31:;209:27,36,-1,-1:42:31:&sn=Kestal SF 2&obs=

[Guest *SOLAR FLARE]

TIE/sf Fighter: · "Quickdraw" (29)
     Adaptability (Increase) (0)
     Fire Control System (2)
     Guidance Chips (0)
     Special Ops Training (0)
     Targeting Synchronizer (3)
TIE Defender: · Countess Ryad (34)
     Adaptability (Increase) (0)
     Guidance Chips (0)
     TIE/D (0)
TIE/fo Fighter: · "Omega Leader" (21)
     Juke (2)
     Comm Relay (3)
-- TOTAL ------- 94p. --

Add 2x Cruise Missile.

I think I am off the CM train thou. Ive never been a fan of running alpha lists myself.

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

CM seem stupid good, but not stupid good enough to bother with a TIE/D sans cannon. Stick to x7 imo

 

points saved (5) give you expertise on QD, and that's just a fully modded 5 dice potential attack with a fully modded follow up, also allows you to have a better Ryad for late game

Edited July 8, 2017 by ficklegreendice

[Iksentrik 108]

What are people's thoughts on these

 

im not 100% on chimps vs lwf

And the high ps bid is more not knowing what else to put on them, maybe sd on OL

 (97)

"Quickdraw" (38) - TIE/SF Fighter
Expertise (4), Fire Control System (2), Cruise Missiles (3), Special Ops Training (0), Guidance Chips (0)

"Backdraft" (33) - TIE/SF Fighter
Veteran Instincts (1), Fire Control System (2), Cruise Missiles (3), Special Ops Training (0), Guidance Chips (0)

"Omega Leader" (26) - TIE/FO Fighter
Juke (2), Comm Relay (3)

 

How about the possibility of

 

 (98)

"Quickdraw" (31) - TIE/SF Fighter
A Score To Settle (0), Fire Control System (2), Special Ops Training (0)

"Backdraft" (30) - TIE/SF Fighter
Veteran Instincts (1), Fire Control System (2), Special Ops Training (0)

Maarek Stele (37) - TIE Defender
Veteran Instincts (1), Tractor Beam (1), TIE/D (0)

Edited July 9, 2017 by Iksentrik

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

On 7/9/2017 at 4:02 AM, Iksentrik said:

What are people's thoughts on these

 

im not 100% on chimps vs lwf

And the high ps bid is more not knowing what else to put on them, maybe sd on OL

 (97)

"Quickdraw" (38) - TIE/SF Fighter
Expertise (4), Fire Control System (2), Cruise Missiles (3), Special Ops Training (0), Guidance Chips (0)

"Backdraft" (33) - TIE/SF Fighter
Veteran Instincts (1), Fire Control System (2), Cruise Missiles (3), Special Ops Training (0), Guidance Chips (0)

"Omega Leader" (26) - TIE/FO Fighter
Juke (2), Comm Relay (3)

 

How about the possibility of

 

 (98)

"Quickdraw" (31) - TIE/SF Fighter
A Score To Settle (0), Fire Control System (2), Special Ops Training (0)

"Backdraft" (30) - TIE/SF Fighter
Veteran Instincts (1), Fire Control System (2), Special Ops Training (0)

Maarek Stele (37) - TIE Defender
Veteran Instincts (1), Tractor Beam (1), TIE/D (0)

With Expertise and a TL, Guidance Chips really isn't worth missing out on LWF on QD.

I'd probably still prefer LWF on Backdraft, but can see the merit a bit more.

 

For then second list, I don't think running budget SFs is worth it. If you're bringing in the Special Forces, give them the tools to do the job. That being said, as far as list synergy goes, you do offer the opponent some decent choices in terms of target priority (Maarek or Backdraft). Maarek's TB @ PS9 is going to help out both SFs a decent amount if it hits. I feel Maarek is still the weak link either way.

[Shraken 142]

Thing with doing 2XSF's of whatever flavor your 3rd has to be somewhat scary or a priority distraction. 
Using VI BD, FCS, CM + QD, FCS, CM as the base build you come up with 67pts

(33) Upsilon with Kylo  Leaves you with no bid against things that can really hurt you. Dengar/Tel/Fenn/ VI Ketsu-Bossk but you can cordinate and Kylo people. 
(27-31) OGP -  Kylo, Rebel Captive + system if your choice (6pts free) FCS is the usual option but might be the weakest. Advanced sensors or Sensor Jammer would be solid.
(31) Vader - Acc Corrector , Juke - 2pt bid and leaves you actions for defensive purposes and you would want him shooting last in the PS9 trio. Give Primed Thrusters to one ship, because who bought 2 HOTR? - Might not be "scary enough"
(32) VI Kestal - with CM , TLT, GC
(26) Deathfire with CM, EM, CLusters, LRS 7 point bid! going away from the Alpha strike unless you give QD swarm leader. 5pts to play with for Sensor Clusters or PA on both, Targeting Sync and leave the 2 pt bid or Primed Thrusters on BD
(31) Inquisitor - Standard
(33) Vessery -X7 - Adaptability  or score 2 settle. No MK2 engines though, might have a problem with stress and you move away from alpha strike.
(31) Carnor - PTL, authrusters 
(32) Soontir - Standard Soontir things.
(31) Omega Spc - Crack, FCS, CM, GC. Why not 3SF?  would have to give QD swarm ldr again though.
(27) Pure Sabaac - VI, Title, Shield Upgrade 4 pts to play.
(27) Duchess - Intensity, Title, LWF or your flavor of EPT/Mod
(30) Omega Ldr - Normal (26) and throw a shield upgrade on him

Of course, more than half of these ships ive never played so it's mostly just fun theories from me.

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

1 hour ago, Shraken said:

Thing with doing 2XSF's of whatever flavor your 3rd has to be somewhat scary or a priority distraction. 
Using VI BD, FCS, CM + QD, FCS, CM as the base build you come up with 67pts

(33) Upsilon with Kylo  Leaves you with no bid against things that can really hurt you. Dengar/Tel/Fenn/ VI Ketsu-Bossk but you can cordinate and Kylo people. 
(27-31) OGP -  Kylo, Rebel Captive + system if your choice (6pts free) FCS is the usual option but might be the weakest. Advanced sensors or Sensor Jammer would be solid.
(31) Vader - Acc Corrector , Juke - 2pt bid and leaves you actions for defensive purposes and you would want him shooting last in the PS9 trio. Give Primed Thrusters to one ship, because who bought 2 HOTR? - Might not be "scary enough"
(32) VI Kestal - with CM , TLT, GC
(26) Deathfire with CM, EM, CLusters, LRS 7 point bid! going away from the Alpha strike unless you give QD swarm leader. 5pts to play with for Sensor Clusters or PA on both, Targeting Sync and leave the 2 pt bid or Primed Thrusters on BD
(31) Inquisitor - Standard
(33) Vessery -X7 - Adaptability  or score 2 settle. No MK2 engines though, might have a problem with stress and you move away from alpha strike.
(31) Carnor - PTL, authrusters 
(32) Soontir - Standard Soontir things.
(31) Omega Spc - Crack, FCS, CM, GC. Why not 3SF?  would have to give QD swarm ldr again though.
(27) Pure Sabaac - VI, Title, Shield Upgrade 4 pts to play.
(27) Duchess - Intensity, Title, LWF or your flavor of EPT/Mod
(30) Omega Ldr - Normal (26) and throw a shield upgrade on him

Of course, more than half of these ships ive never played so it's mostly just fun theories from me.

For OGP -- deep six Rebel Captive. It isn't that strong currently, and is very manageable (and counter-intuitive to your idea of having a shoot-first threat). Swap in Vader crew, and you're now a LOT scarier to some key meta players. Or, you know, try and fit Palp and some LWFs on the SFs...

That Vader is only getting shot first because he's so easy to kill.

Kestal - she might have some builds that fit this role pretty well, she's probably going to be high on my test lists.

Inquisitor - Decent for closing/Ace sniping, but he makes Backdraft the obvious first target.

Sabacc - Definitely becomes priority target, which can be a bit of a pain, as he dies pretty quick. I do like me some Countdown, though, and he's been my filler of choice. He's usually NOT the first target, but he's such a safe ship to jam into the enemy's setup, and his dice can do some seriously surprising work (reminds me of my days w/ the Lambda scoring most of my kills due to being "clean up."

Omega Leader - Bae.

[SOTL 3,229]

9 hours ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

That Vader is only getting shot first because he's so easy to kill.

I've run that Vader alongside Quickdraw/Vessery and it was the toughest thing in my squad.  3 green dice with Focus/Evade at all times and offense double-modded by Juke and ATC.  He's slow & steady in damage output, that's his weakness, but he's also tough as an old boot.

The ideal EPT slot would be Lone Wolf but then you've got to fly him very carefully on the flanks, which may not suit everyone.

Edited July 12, 2017 by SOTL

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

3 hours ago, SOTL said:

I've run that Vader alongside Quickdraw/Vessery and it was the toughest thing in my squad.  3 green dice with Focus/Evade at all times and offense double-modded by Juke and ATC.  He's slow & steady in damage output, that's his weakness, but he's also tough as an old boot.

The ideal EPT slot would be Lone Wolf but then you've got to fly him very carefully on the flanks, which may not suit everyone.

Poster I was replying to put Accuracy Corrector, not ATC. ATC Vader can be a bit more of a work horse. Still dies pretty quickly to anything popular in this meta, and requires careful flying, as he doesn't have as many cute tricks for turning around as your other ships (Vessery and his 4k, Quickdraw with the rear arc and solid three sloops w/ PA).

 

[SOTL 3,229]

Why does a Vader with Focus/Evade glued to him die 'pretty quickly'.  Is it so much faster than a Defender with Focus/Evade glued to him, or Backdraft with just a Focus?

 

[Iksentrik 108]

18 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Why does a Vader with Focus/Evade glued to him die 'pretty quickly'.  Is it so much faster than a Defender with Focus/Evade glued to him, or Backdraft with just a Focus?

 

Because someone said so....

but seriously, fly what you like

 

#whatmeta

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

19 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Why does a Vader with Focus/Evade glued to him die 'pretty quickly'.  Is it so much faster than a Defender with Focus/Evade glued to him, or Backdraft with just a Focus?

 

If you're keeping a Focus & Evade glued to him? Because you're flying with the Advanced's dial and sticking to it, NOT dodging arcs.

If you ARE dodging arcs, you no longer have your Focus and Evade "glued" to him, and not he's likely getting picked on by a turret, or a higher PS/init bid opponent taking advantage of that.

Or he's getting blocked, which means nothing is glued to him and he's going to explode pretty quickly, or get needled to death relatively fast by TLTs, tokened or not...

Honestly, if Vader was still viable in the meta, you'd see him performing better. And I don't mean just see him on the table -- he's the Dark Lord of the Sith and his ship isn't bad, you'll likely always see him (I guess, he's completely out of our local meta, unless I'm bringing him).

Vader doesn't have Autothrusters, that's HUGE with all the turrets flying about. Vader doesn't have a good way to turn around, that's huge with all the turrets/Defenders/Jumpasters flying about. Vader isn't being backed up by Palp anymore, or, if he is, it's a Palp suffering from some slight dementia. Vader can't take some of the newer upgrades that would help bridge this gap, like the SF can.

Three agility, an evade, and a focus don't always cut it, especially if he's expecting to put out any sort of reliable damage (by keeping arc or using the Focus), or getting focus fired.

I'm liking Expertise Vader, and I'm enjoying testing him with Cruise Missiles, but he's still susceptible to burning out quickly.

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

8 minutes ago, Iksentrik said:

Because someone said so....

but seriously, fly what you like

 

#whatmeta

I hope this catches on. It will make tournaments much easier around here.

[SOTL 3,229]

5 minutes ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

If you're keeping a Focus & Evade glued to him? Because you're flying with the Advanced's dial and sticking to it, NOT dodging arcs.
 

Precisely, I'm not attempting to dodge arcs because I'm tanky as hell.  Come on and throw your red dice into the black hole of my tokens!

Vader has failed as an arc dodger but he works pretty well as a tanky jouster.  If an /x7 Defender can joust then Vader can joust.  It's a paradigm shift ;-)

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

1 minute ago, SOTL said:

Precisely, I'm not attempting to dodge arcs because I'm tanky as hell.  Come on and throw your red dice into the black hole of my tokens!

Vader has failed as an arc dodger but he works pretty well as a tanky jouster.  If an /x7 Defender can joust then Vader can joust.  It's a paradigm shift ;-)

Defenders can joust because they're going to turn around and do it all over again, with style.

Vader comes down with a bout of Asthma, if he tries the same thing, or has to spend some time figuring out how to turn his **** car around before he can get back at it.

That's why I liked Cruise Missiles -- played correctly, you can get a full TWO rounds of jousting out of the old goat, before he's got to turn back around.

Homeboy still melts to concentrated fire, and faster than a Defender.