Double Tie/SF + 1 help

[Bonza 199]

On 6/30/2017 at 5:23 PM, ficklegreendice said:

Double edge also doesnt specify 2ndary weapon with his extra attack, so you can just use your primary if your tlts miss 

That's my line of thinking. Still debating whether or not a single TLT is worth trading Inky or OL for - perhaps on a Trickshot Double Edge?  Leaves plenty of points to pimp out the SF's. 

@Pleugim Missile SF's are great, grats on the win. Rey with  Countermeasures/Scavenger Crane alongside Jan is a big list in my scene, which made me retire my ordnance, alas  

Edited July 3, 2017 by Bonza

[SOTL 3,229]

Missile TIE/sf is a legit build.  When I first looked into TIE/sf I did note that the missile versions were quite rare, but they actually had the highest win percentage.  You have to run Chips or it's not worthwhile.

[Jarval 1,530]

It's a great list that's done me proud.   As @Pleugim says, it's all about getting that opening exchange right, and ideally burning a ship off the board before it gets to shoot.  Getting a good idea of likely speeds of approach of a range of lists is hugely helpful, as it lets you get that exchange right more often than not.

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

2 hours ago, Bonza said:

That's my line of thinking. Still debating whether or not a single TLT is worth trading Inky or OL for - perhaps on a Trickshot Double Edge?  

@Pleugim

Yuo very hard to compete with those options, but the gressor is great for variety's sake if nothing else

Ito gameplay, however,its only real concrete advantage is versus bombs because good goddamn luck bombing something that doesmt have to chase you

Lone wolf seems nice too and gives it some late game potential

Edited July 3, 2017 by ficklegreendice

[Archidroid 41]

6 hours ago, SOTL said:

Missile TIE/sf is a legit build.  When I first looked into TIE/sf I did note that the missile versions were quite rare, but they actually had the highest win percentage.  You have to run Chips or it's not worthwhile.

I've actually found that with targeting synchronizer, to focus instead of TL for action, I can use concussion missile without chips and still do well. According to the dice calculator it's still 74% to land 4 hits without chips. 

[SOTL 3,229]

13 minutes ago, Archidroid said:

I've actually found that with targeting synchronizer, to focus instead of TL for action, I can use concussion missile without chips and still do well. According to the dice calculator it's still 74% to land 4 hits without chips. 

True, but you're also paying 2pts for LWF then likely not having your focus to mod those dice up, meanwhile the 4pts you invested in a single shot of missiles are being undermined.

It's not a straight forward call, but I think the Chips makes more sense - if you're going to alpha strike then alpha strike!

[Archidroid 41]

On 7/3/2017 at 8:57 AM, SOTL said:

True, but you're also paying 2pts for LWF then likely not having your focus to mod those dice up, meanwhile the 4pts you invested in a single shot of missiles are being undermined.

It's not a straight forward call, but I think the Chips makes more sense - if you're going to alpha strike then alpha strike!

All good points. I agree it's not a straight forward call. I admittedly half-assed my alpha strike by doing chips on my "+1" and LWF on my SF's. It helps the long game but you will occasionally roll those double and trip blanks. I live with the results.

On a different topic. Has anyone tried generic phantoms as their "+1"? I started experimenting with it last week and only have a few games under my belt but the results are decent so far (2-1).  I'm running both SF's with targeting synchronizer and then a sigma with collision detector, LWF, and so far intel agent (two wins) and kallus (loss) as crew.  I keep it cloaked thru the first round of combat, usually with an evade, trying to block and cause problems. Then use intel agent to either block again or decloak to arrange a nice shot close in. It's 4-5 dice that can be double modified thanks to targeting synch. So far I think I like the sigma better than Sabacc as a "+1".

[Scopes 530]

Here's my contribution. I welcome any comments or feedback:

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v4!s!208:197,36,-1,204:42:31:;70:220,-1,-1:33:17:;187:152,153:-1:-1:&sn=Unsaved Squadron&obs=

"Quickdraw" — TIE/sf Fighter	29
A Score to Settle	0
Fire-Control System	2
Pattern Analyzer	2
Lightweight Frame	2
Special Ops Training	0
Ship Total: 35
Colonel Vessery — TIE Defender	35
Expertise	4
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II	1
TIE/x7	-2
Ship Total: 38
"Omega Leader" — TIE/fo Fighter	21
Juke	2
Comm Relay	3
Ship Total: 26

Is Vessery the weak link? I so want this to work, as Vessery is able to consistently roll hits. Just not sure how long he will last. 

My other option is this:

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v4!s!208:220,36,-1,204:42:31:;187:152,153:-1:-1:;209:27,36,-1,187:42:31:&sn=Unsaved Squadron&obs=

"Quickdraw" — TIE/sf Fighter29

Expertise4

Fire-Control System2

Pattern Analyzer2

Lightweight Frame2

Special Ops Training0

Ship Total: 39

 

"Omega Leader" — TIE/fo Fighter21

Juke2

Comm Relay3

Ship Total: 26

 

"Backdraft" — TIE/sf Fighter27

Veteran Instincts1

Fire-Control System2

Sensor Cluster2

Lightweight Frame2

Special Ops Training0

Ship Total: 34

 

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

10 hours ago, Scopes said:

Here's my contribution. I welcome any comments or feedback:

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v4!s!208:197,36,-1,204:42:31:;70:220,-1,-1:33:17:;187:152,153:-1:-1:&sn=Unsaved Squadron&obs=

"Quickdraw" — TIE/sf Fighter	29
A Score to Settle	0
Fire-Control System	2
Pattern Analyzer	2
Lightweight Frame	2
Special Ops Training	0
Ship Total: 35
Colonel Vessery — TIE Defender	35
Expertise	4
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II	1
TIE/x7	-2
Ship Total: 38
"Omega Leader" — TIE/fo Fighter	21
Juke	2
Comm Relay	3
Ship Total: 26

Is Vessery the weak link? I so want this to work, as Vessery is able to consistently roll hits. Just not sure how long he will last. 

 

Vessery is the obvious first target, but I wouldn't say he's a weak link -- with Expertise, you can now freely save your Focus and Evade tokens for defense, making him a pretty annoying ship to kill. As long as you're not flying recklessly, this list is annoying for an opponent, as they want to focus fire on your ships as much as possible.

Try to avoid the straight on joust, or at least try to control range so your opponent has to split fire, and they're going to have a bad time.

[SOTL 3,229]

I like the list that was posted in the A Score To Settle Topic

• Quickdraw - Draw Their Fire, Fire Control System, Lightweight Frame, Special Ops Training, Pattern Analyser
• Colonel Vessery - A Score To Settle, Ion Cannon, TIE/D
• Omega Leader - Juke, Comm Relay

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

49 minutes ago, SOTL said:

I like the list that was posted in the A Score To Settle Topic

• Quickdraw - Draw Their Fire, Fire Control System, Lightweight Frame, Special Ops Training, Pattern Analyser
• Colonel Vessery - A Score To Settle, Ion Cannon, TIE/D
• Omega Leader - Juke, Comm Relay

I think this has a lot of merit, but it does require some thoughtful flying -- if an opponent is clever, it's not impossible to get an approach vector on Vessery that would negate the usefulness of DtF on QD.

That being said, it's not likely they'll immediately punch through six health backed by three agility...

Yeah, this is worth testing.

[SOTL 3,229]

And a decent potential to fire 5 times per turn...

[Scopes 530]

1 hour ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

Vessery is the obvious first target, but I wouldn't say he's a weak link -- with Expertise, you can now freely save your Focus and Evade tokens for defense, making him a pretty annoying ship to kill. As long as you're not flying recklessly, this list is annoying for an opponent, as they want to focus fire on your ships as much as possible.

Try to avoid the straight on joust, or at least try to control range so your opponent has to split fire, and they're going to have a bad time.

Yes, I'd agree. Stress lists are what could do this list in. IfI have to play Vessery to consistently use his focus for attack, I'll struggle to keep him in the game for long. 

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

Just now, Scopes said:

Yes, I'd agree. Stress lists are what could do this list in. IfI have to play Vessery to consistently use his focus for attack, I'll struggle to keep him in the game for long. 

You've got enough offense that you can reliably wipe out most stress giving ships. Assaj is a slightly different beast, but you can try to control range at that point. Expertise on Vessery also reduces his need, IMO, to pick up the Evade token every turn, specifically in a match vs Assaj.

[Shraken 142]

On 6/22/2017 at 8:45 AM, Jarval said:

I've posted this elsewhere on the forums today, but I've been getting great results with the list below. (Winning a 30ish player Q2 kit tournament, a Store Championship, and a 10ish player weekday tournament evening without losing a game.)

  It's all about the opening exchange though, and a lot of the time you're flying it in a very aggressive way to get shots over arc dodging or keeping tokens for defence.  If you can PS kill a ship, that's the best form of defence of all...  Omega Leader is a great "closer" for the list - if she's going one on one against almost any ship, she can probably win the game for you, especially if that ship is worth 51 points or less.

"Omega Leader" (21)
Juke (2)
Comm Relay (3)

"Backdraft" (27)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Homing Missiles (5)
Guidance Chips (0)
Special Ops Training (0)

"Quickdraw" (29)
Crack Shot (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Homing Missiles (5)
Guidance Chips (0)
Special Ops Training (0)

Total: 98

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Question on this, why Homing missiles over Concussion missiles?
You save 2 points but you do get 2 free modifications from GC and Conc so you're down to needing 2 natural hits. 
Homing gives you 1 free and the 3 rerolls.

I don't know the math behind which is better, would it be worth dropping to CM to add primed to both or LWF on QD?

[Jarval 1,530]

1 hour ago, Shraken said:

Question on this, why Homing missiles over Concussion missiles?
You save 2 points but you do get 2 free modifications from GC and Conc so you're down to needing 2 natural hits. 
Homing gives you 1 free and the 3 rerolls.

I don't know the math behind which is better, would it be worth dropping to CM to add primed to both or LWF on QD?

Homing Missiles do slightly more damage on average (I think it's a 75% chance of 4 hits from Homing Missiles after rerolls and GC, vs 59% of 4 hits from Concussions with native mods and GC), but also suppress evade tokens.  While not a huge meta thing now, this list was first built to kill /x7 Defenders, and bypassing those evade tokens was a huge deal. 

[Goseki1 637]

10 hours ago, SOTL said:

I like the list that was posted in the A Score To Settle Topic

• Quickdraw - Draw Their Fire, Fire Control System, Lightweight Frame, Special Ops Training, Pattern Analyser
• Colonel Vessery - A Score To Settle, Ion Cannon, TIE/D
• Omega Leader - Juke, Comm Relay

This... Is pretty hot.

Also liking the thought of the ordnance SF list posted earlier, replacing homers with Cruise missiles to fit pattern analyser or lightweight frame... 

[Biophysical 15,761]

I'm a little wary about Cruise Missiles on SFs.  They'll work fine on a head-on joust, but they're just 3 dice attacks if you have to make a turn.  That's not most situations, but it is a weakness.  Advanced and Defenders can keep the damage up even on turns.

[wurms 5,313]

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I'm a little wary about Cruise Missiles on SFs.  They'll work fine on a head-on joust, but they're just 3 dice attacks if you have to make a turn.  That's not most situations, but it is a weakness.  Advanced and Defenders can keep the damage up even on turns.

Pattern analyzer and a 3 sloop is a 4 dice missile shot. Not bad.

[Stay On The Leader 5,431]

Or a 3 dice primary for 0pts.

I like Cruise on Deathfire, but /SF don't need it.

[wurms 5,313]

49 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Or a 3 dice primary for 0pts.

I like Cruise on Deathfire, but /SF don't need it.

Dont forget they take away range bonus as well. After an SF sloops, and your opponent does whatever, you are most likely looking at range 3. You want to fire a 4 dice cruise missile on Fenn Rau or a 3 dice primary?

I think they definitely have a spot in SF lists, as they dont take any extra effort since the TL is setup with FCS.

[Iksentrik 108]

6 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I'm a little wary about Cruise Missiles on SFs.  They'll work fine on a head-on joust, but they're just 3 dice attacks if you have to make a turn.  That's not most situations, but it is a weakness.  Advanced and Defenders can keep the damage up even on turns.

I don't know I'm quite tempted by a 4 dice missile after a 3 sloop, I think it could catch a lot of people out. Also the 2 pts you save is quite a biggy

 

what are people thoughts, now that we've seen the dial, on an autoblaster on the aggressor? And if you're flying backdraft and QuickDraw would you drop OL for a turret ship?

[SOTL 3,229]

No, and no.

[Iksentrik 108]

14 minutes ago, SOTL said:

No, and no.

Care to expand on this or just going with one word answers?

[SOTL 3,229]

Autoblaster on Aggressor... no.  Autoblaster is just bad, it's not a good card.

Drop Omega Leader for a TLT Aggressor... no.  HELL, no.


Drop Omega Leader for Deathfire with Cruise Missiles?  Oh yeah, maybe...

11 hours ago, Goseki1 said:

This... Is pretty hot.

Also liking the thought of the ordnance SF list posted earlier, replacing homers with Cruise missiles to fit pattern analyser or lightweight frame... 

I think I've cracked an improvement...

• Quickdraw - Draw Their Fire, Fire Control System, Lightweight Frame, Special Ops Training, Targeting Synchroniser
• Colonel Vessery - A Score To Settle, Flechette Cannon, TIE/D
• Deathfire - Cruise Missiles, Cluster Mines, Extra Munitions, Guidance Chips

There's a pretty good chance this squad goes through Dengar like a knife through hot butter.  Deathfire alone averages 6.7 damage against Countermeasures/Overlocked Dengar from a Cruise Missiles and Cluster Bombs run.