Double Tie/SF + 1 help

[Goseki1 637]

On 17/07/2017 at 5:16 PM, Goseki1 said:

I have a tkurnam next weekend. I've  it been able to play for about a month and will get to practice one day this week. I think I might be silly and try Juking SF's. If I can get hold of 2 cruise missiles I might try the below. I like the thought of flying fast to potentially throw 5 dice as an Alpha. If I misjudge and get to range 1 that's still 4 dice I'm throwing, and then I'll sloop and throw 4 more with a TL (thanks to FCS) and a focus (thanks to Pattern Analser). Omega Leader is wonderful bait and a good closer. 

TIE/sf Fighter: · "Backdraft" (27)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Cruise missiles (3)
Fire Control System (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)
Pattern Analyzer (2)

TIE/sf Fighter: · "Quickdraw" (29)
Adaptability (Increase) (0)
Cruise missiles (3)
Fire Control System (2)
Guidance Chips (0)
Special Ops Training (0)
Pattern Analyzer (2)

TIE/fo Fighter: · "Omega Leader" (21)
Juke (2)
Comm Relay (3)
-- TOTAL ------- 99p. --

So I tried both these lists today. The TLT one was very interesting, I flew it quite poorly as it's new and somewhat unintuitive to me, but I think it could be good. 

The cruise missile SF's + OL was very interesting. I played against a Miranda/Leebo list and managed to kill Miranda in round 2 thanks to missiles. Then I flew awfully, got Leebo to 1 Hull and ultimately lost. Flown better I think I could've win that by a good margin

Then played against a VI/autoblaster/bomblet/genius Nym/Dengar list, I jousted Dengar because I thought I thought it would be funny and that I could kill him quickly. I won that game (it was very close), without firing a Cruise missile, and I think with practice it could be a fantastic list. Felt very weird flying agsinst another PS10 ship though.

I think at the weekend I'll take the cruise missiles/Omega Leader list. I don't think I'll do great as I need to practice approaches for the Cruisers, but it's an excellent opportunity to try it out.  

[wurms 5,313]

Got another game in with:

Lieutenant Kestal (22) w/ Veteran Instincts (1), Cruise Missiles (3), Cruise Missiles (3), Guidance Chips (0)

"Quickdraw" (29) w/ Crackshot (1), Fire-Control System (2), Cruise Missiles (3), Targeting Synchronizer (3), Guidance Chips (0), Special Ops Training (0)

"Backdraft" (27) w/ Veteran Instincts (1), Fire-Control System (2), Cruise Missiles (3), Guidance Chips (0), Special Ops Training (0)

Total: 100

This time i was up against ps9, 10,10 vader, inquisitor,quickdraw alpha all with cruise, vader with intensity.

This is where target synch pays off. I 4 forward all my guys and focus. He keeps vader in back and 3 banks quickdraw and 4 forwards inquisitor. His quickdraw has no chips and takes a shield off my quickdraw, i revenge inquisitor and setup tl with fcs. His inquisitor takes my QDs remaining shields. I fire a 5 dice cruise with kestal and do 2 dmg. I primary with my quickdraw and get two hits, he rolls 1 evade and i crack it. Inquisitor dead.

He would kill quickdraw next round, i went for vader and got some damage in. Vader flew away, so i setup a TL with Kestal on vader, then switched target to quickdraw and took her shields. Vader came back and i 3 turned Kestal for a cruise on vader, and I 3 slooped backdraft for a cruise on Quickdraw. Took them both out that round. Kestal lived with 1 hull, backdraft 3 hull.

I really want a turret on kestal, might drop cruise on quickdraw.

[Goseki1 637]

Nice roundup man, glad the cruisers are working for you, though I think you've got balls to fly the SF's without LWF XD. 

I'm struggling to settle on my list for the weekend.  I think I'm going to add lightweight frame onto Quickdraw on the list I posted earlier,  and take omega leader with Score to settle and Comm Relay. 

Slooping with a target lock then focusing with pattern analyser for 4 dice fully modded shots is Noice. 

[Shraken 142]

On 7/20/2017 at 0:11 PM, wurms said:

Got another game in with:

Lieutenant Kestal (22) w/ Veteran Instincts (1), Cruise Missiles (3), Cruise Missiles (3), Guidance Chips (0)

"Quickdraw" (29) w/ Crackshot (1), Fire-Control System (2), Cruise Missiles (3), Targeting Synchronizer (3), Guidance Chips (0), Special Ops Training (0)

"Backdraft" (27) w/ Veteran Instincts (1), Fire-Control System (2), Cruise Missiles (3), Guidance Chips (0), Special Ops Training (0)

Total: 100

This time i was up against ps9, 10,10 vader, inquisitor,quickdraw alpha all with cruise, vader with intensity.

This is where target synch pays off. I 4 forward all my guys and focus. He keeps vader in back and 3 banks quickdraw and 4 forwards inquisitor. His quickdraw has no chips and takes a shield off my quickdraw, i revenge inquisitor and setup tl with fcs. His inquisitor takes my QDs remaining shields. I fire a 5 dice cruise with kestal and do 2 dmg. I primary with my quickdraw and get two hits, he rolls 1 evade and i crack it. Inquisitor dead.

He would kill quickdraw next round, i went for vader and got some damage in. Vader flew away, so i setup a TL with Kestal on vader, then switched target to quickdraw and took her shields. Vader came back and i 3 turned Kestal for a cruise on vader, and I 3 slooped backdraft for a cruise on Quickdraw. Took them both out that round. Kestal lived with 1 hull, backdraft 3 hull.

I really want a turret on kestal, might drop cruise on quickdraw.

This is on my list to try but 1xCM on Kestel and a Synced turret. QD has adapt instead of crack.

[Bonza 199]

On 20 July 2017 at 7:11 PM, wurms said:

Got another game in with:

Lieutenant Kestal (22) w/ Veteran Instincts (1), Cruise Missiles (3), Cruise Missiles (3), Guidance Chips (0)

"Quickdraw" (29) w/ Crackshot (1), Fire-Control System (2), Cruise Missiles (3), Targeting Synchronizer (3), Guidance Chips (0), Special Ops Training (0)

"Backdraft" (27) w/ Veteran Instincts (1), Fire-Control System (2), Cruise Missiles (3), Guidance Chips (0), Special Ops Training (0)

Total: 100

This time i was up against ps9, 10,10 vader, inquisitor,quickdraw alpha all with cruise, vader with intensity.

This is where target synch pays off. I 4 forward all my guys and focus. He keeps vader in back and 3 banks quickdraw and 4 forwards inquisitor. His quickdraw has no chips and takes a shield off my quickdraw, i revenge inquisitor and setup tl with fcs. His inquisitor takes my QDs remaining shields. I fire a 5 dice cruise with kestal and do 2 dmg. I primary with my quickdraw and get two hits, he rolls 1 evade and i crack it. Inquisitor dead.

He would kill quickdraw next round, i went for vader and got some damage in. Vader flew away, so i setup a TL with Kestal on vader, then switched target to quickdraw and took her shields. Vader came back and i 3 turned Kestal for a cruise on vader, and I 3 slooped backdraft for a cruise on Quickdraw. Took them both out that round. Kestal lived with 1 hull, backdraft 3 hull.

I really want a turret on kestal, might drop cruise on quickdraw.

Very cool list. There is going to be a lot of range play with Imperials this wave. I'm testing out my standard SF list, but throwing VI Vader with Cruise alongside them for extra punch. 

Now we just need a way to beat the unkillable Biggs  

[Goseki1 637]

So I've settled on this for a tourney today. It's 5 rounds and I predict I only get 3 missiles off all day XD. 

TIE/sf Fighter: · "Backdraft" (27)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Fire Control System (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)
Pattern Analyzer (2)

TIE/sf Fighter: · "Quickdraw" (29)
Adaptability (Increase) (0)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Fire Control System (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)
Pattern Analyzer (2)

TIE/fo Fighter: · "Omega Leader" (21)
· A score to settle (0)
Comm Relay (3)
-- TOTAL ------- 99p. --

 

 

[Bonza 199]

VI/Cruise Missile Vader was a bit meh when I tested him against a Biggs/Lowhrick varient. He takes the heat off of the SF's, but really struggles to be more than a one shot wonder. Without engine upgrade he just can't dance out of danger. 

Double Edge with Lone Wolf was surprisingly effective though, was able go get behind the rebel formation and snipe away. Certainly better than I had anticipated.

[Goseki1 637]

Yes! After this tournament when I have time to practice I'm going to slot him into my SF list. 29 points and with lone Wolf is surprisingly consistent with damage and defence. I just need to learn how to fly TLT carriers properly. 

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

I took a list featuring a Palp Shuttle and Cruising QD & Cruising BD. The first match was an extremely low-scoring match on both sides that I was on the losing side of. The next two, I lost half the shuttle and nada respectively.

I was fourth place, due to the other folks winning all three of their games, but my MoV was significantly better than any of them, hah.

It's a fun list, Palp feels almost like old Palp (thanks to Lightweight Frame), I forgot how much I loved the Lambda shuttle, and the list really doesn't have any outright weaknesses -- the Cruise Missiles fill a nice gap, even if you don't spend them during the initial engagement (mine were 50/50 in terms of being used on a 4 straight or a 3 sloop).

With some more time with it (this was my initial test run), I think it'd perform well overall, though I didn't get to test it against Rebel Junkyard, which has hit my meta in a big way as of this weekend. I'm hoping other folks will develop more direct answers to Junkyard so it becomes less prevalent (this is the same strategy I "used" when Thug Life was a thing).

[Goseki1 637]

Did you ask before hand on how Palp and LWF would be ruled? As there's still (understandably) a lot of arguments around it. 

Edited July 24, 2017 by Goseki1

[Terminus-Est 71]

On 24/07/2017 at 2:10 PM, ArbitraryNerd said:

I took a list featuring a Palp Shuttle and Cruising QD & Cruising BD. The first match was an extremely low-scoring match on both sides that I was on the losing side of. The next two, I lost half the shuttle and nada respectively.

I was fourth place, due to the other folks winning all three of their games, but my MoV was significantly better than any of them, hah.

It's a fun list, Palp feels almost like old Palp (thanks to Lightweight Frame), I forgot how much I loved the Lambda shuttle, and the list really doesn't have any outright weaknesses -- the Cruise Missiles fill a nice gap, even if you don't spend them during the initial engagement (mine were 50/50 in terms of being used on a 4 straight or a 3 sloop).

With some more time with it (this was my initial test run), I think it'd perform well overall, though I didn't get to test it against Rebel Junkyard, which has hit my meta in a big way as of this weekend. I'm hoping other folks will develop more direct answers to Junkyard so it becomes less prevalent (this is the same strategy I "used" when Thug Life was a thing).

Has anyone had a good sense of whether double SF lists can perform decently vs Junkyard?

In principle CMs and the double arc seem like they could offer *something* (esp. If Biggs is in the front arc) but I'd welcome any actual experiences over theorycrafting...

[SOTL 3,229]

On 7/24/2017 at 3:04 PM, Goseki1 said:

Did you ask before hand on how Palp and LWF would be ruled? As there's still (understandably) a lot of arguments around it. 

Really? It's pretty clear that the LWF dice is a separate incidence of rolling, allowing Palp to trigger for it.

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

On 7/24/2017 at 10:04 AM, Goseki1 said:

Did you ask before hand on how Palp and LWF would be ruled? As there's still (understandably) a lot of arguments around it. 

RAW is clear, and we got (unofficially from an official source) confirmation at worlds.

It's clear until FFG says otherwise, because there isn't a single person that can tell you, with rules support, why it doesn't work.

[Goseki1 637]

Can't disagree, was just interested in whether you checked beforehand is all! 

I'm tempted to run a Palp shuttle since people seem to have accepted it works with LWF now. 

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

1 hour ago, Goseki1 said:

Can't disagree, was just interested in whether you checked beforehand is all! 

I'm tempted to run a Palp shuttle since people seem to have accepted it works with LWF now. 

To be 100% transparent, there is a local FAQ document that the New England stores are using, and it does clarify how that interaction works, but it is simply citing the wording and the fact that it came up at Worlds, it's not one of the cards where they are making a RAW vs RAI ruling on.

[nigeltastic 3,808]

6 hours ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

RAW is clear, and we got (unofficially from an official source) confirmation at worlds.

It's clear until FFG says otherwise, because there isn't a single person that can tell you, with rules support, why it doesn't work.

To me the only uncertainty is if you can palp only the die you add later with lwf or any die in your pool. That palp works is clear but on which dice could be argued.

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

8 hours ago, nigeltastic said:

To me the only uncertainty is if you can palp only the die you add later with lwf or any die in your pool. That palp works is clear but on which dice could be argued.

How? There is no rule for any of your dice being treated separately once rolled -- it's all the same pool.

Palp also doesn't say you have to change the result on the die that you rolled, only that you choose to use him before rolling.

I'm not saying FFG won't change their answer later, as this does feel like it goes against RAI, but there is nothing in RAW that prevents it from working.

[SOTL 3,229]

OK, that's definitely worth FAQing.  I can see both sides of that argument and would genuinely not be clear which to choose.

[nigeltastic 3,808]

10 hours ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

How? There is no rule for any of your dice being treated separately once rolled -- it's all the same pool.

Palp also doesn't say you have to change the result on the die that you rolled, only that you choose to use him before rolling.

I'm not saying FFG won't change their answer later, as this does feel like it goes against RAI, but there is nothing in RAW that prevents it from working.

The ambiguity is from the linguistics of the card. 'Once per round before  friendly ship rolls dice' then goes on to further talking about changing dice results. The language can be seen as referring to the same set of dice in both instances. I don't think it's that unclear but it's just ambiguous enough that if someone feels like they've been duped by the interaction there is room for confusion.

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

On 7/27/2017 at 10:35 AM, nigeltastic said:

The ambiguity is from the linguistics of the card. 'Once per round before  friendly ship rolls dice' then goes on to further talking about changing dice results. The language can be seen as referring to the same set of dice in both instances. I don't think it's that unclear but it's just ambiguous enough that if someone feels like they've been duped by the interaction there is room for confusion.

That doesn't mean anything in terms of how a rule functions, however.

Omega Leader is a perfect example of this. Plenty of people just don't get how OL works. Doesn't mean her ability isn't fully functioning within the rules.

May be a candidate for an FAQ, due to how often a question is asked, but not to provide guidance on how it actually functions.

... Which is what most people demand when talking about "FAQ" answers. They fail to/refuse to understand how something works, and don't want it to work at all until they have a specific FAQ entry.

That's not really the purpose of an FAQ in any other game, FFG has just made the mistake of treating their errata document and FAQ document as one and the same.

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

On 7/14/2017 at 10:20 AM, ArbitraryNerd said:

PALP'S SPECIAL FORCES

 

98 points

PILOTS

“Quickdraw” (37)
Special Forces TIE (29), Expertise (4), Fire-Control System (2), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

“Backdraft” (32)
Special Forces TIE (27), Veteran Instincts (1), Fire-Control System (2), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

Omicron Group Pilot (29)
Lambda-Class Shuttle (21), Collision Detector (0), Emperor Palpatine (8)

So, it totes feels like old school Palp.

But it doesn't offer much in the way of an answer for Rebel Junkyard.

I've not had time to do extensive testing vs. the list, but I did put it on the table against a friend who was flying the Junkyard list for the first time, and I didn't manage to take a single ship of the board at the 75 minute mark, and he managed to take out the shuttle (he was using a Stress Jess version, which made my usually tricksy shuttle rather predictable).

I was trying a non-direct approach, so I'll have to try to switch it up in future testing, but I think you need a third ship that can work around the board a bit better and try to survive the four rebel ships better. Anything that bleeds MoV is going to have a hard time vs the Junkyard in 75 minute matches.

[BanthaFather 50]

Edit: posted this here having forgot that the title is DOUBLE tie sf. Sorry about that.

 

So, I don't have Palpatine, and I don't see myself getting the card for a long time. $100.00 for the Raider is a steep price just to get a crew card, and I don't think I'll be trying to get it off eBay either. 

That said, I really like the shuttle/sf/fo lists. I asked myself what the palp/Yor combo was doing, and I tried to mimic the die modification/stress relief that I've been seeing. Anyway, this is my best crack at the list:

 

Quickdraw: Title, Expertise, FCS, LWF

Omicron Group Pilot: Fleet Officer, Collision Detector

Omega Leader: Juke, Comm Relay, Hull Upgrade

Epsilon Leader

 

So far I've only playtested it once, but had a lot of fun. I'm considering dropping the Hull Upgrade from Omega Leader to put a Rebel Captive on the shuttle. That would make all of the ships difficult to shoot at (except for Epsilon Leader). Anyway, having four ships on the table is nice. 

Any thoughts for a sucker without a Palpatine card?

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by BanthaFather

[Vineheart01 6,403]

Not reading through 6 pages but i'll say this since it wasnt in the OP:

Sabaac with Wired or VI + Title + LWF = 25pts. Easily the best filler ship we got as he can drop some heavy damage for his cost, surprisingly agile and hard to lock down (hence wired since he kturns a LOT), and draws a ton of attention as a result.
Generally if i got 24-26pts left, i default to him.

[Goseki1 637]

So the thread has moved away from 2 SF's +1 which is cool. It's nice to just see SF's being discussed (and seemingly doing well in events). I wanted to come up with a 4 ship imperial list, mostly to see if it was possible to make one that was competetive and didn't rely on Alpha strikes. TLT Agressors seem to fit the bill quite well I suppose, but I don't ever want to fly 4 of them. Paired with Quickdraw and Wampa though? 

Thats a fair amount of dice being rolled. If they go for Wampa first they leave QD and TLTs. If they go for the TLTs first they leave Quickdraw who can be a terror in the end game. Wampa is there as a distraction and a genuine threat to many low hull ships. Thoughts? 

TIE Aggressor: Sienar Specialist (17)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Lightweight Frame (2)

TIE Aggressor: Sienar Specialist (17)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Lightweight Frame (2)

TIE/sf Fighter: · "Quickdraw" (29)
Adaptability (Increase) (0)
Fire Control System (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Pattern Analyzer (2)

TIE Fighter: · "Wampa" (14)
-- TOTAL ------- 99p. --

[Iksentrik 108]

Is the 1 point bid really that important? If not that is a ept for QuickDraw like vi