Jump to content
Princezilla

Punish me Harder

Recommended Posts

On 6/19/2017 at 1:12 AM, VanderLegion said:

No they don't?  They blow up at the end of the activation phase, same as every other maneuver drop bomb.  The aces will have moved before it explodes, and have the chance to get out of it.  That's why action mines are better for hunting higher PS ships, and maneuver drops are better for hunting lower PS ships that have already moved when you decide whether to drop it.

Aaaaaahhhhhh.......thanks for clearing that up.    I haven't read the other bomb cards in so long I thought the wording was weird.    Gotcha.     

 

Still....if an Ace is spending his actions getting out of a situation, I'm fine with that.   He's usually not in a spot to get much of a shot and doesn't really have lots of tokens.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO best fix for the ship:

Title card:

"When you reveal your dial you can instead perform a 0 speed maneuver of the same color as your original move.

If your pilot skill is 4 or higher, your upgrade bar gain an EPT slot."

Fix the dial and separate the ship from the other ordnance carrier. Kwing can SLAM, Scurrg is fast and can Talon roll, Punisher is a slow turtle :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In case anyone bothered to look at my thread on ship pricing, I concluded that the TIE-Punisher is the most overcosted ship in the game for its stats by a whopping 6 points.  That's even more than the pre-fix TIE-Advanced at 5 points.  This is mostly because of its mind-boggling 2-ATK primary.

From what I see on this forum, these are the expectations people have of the Punisher:
#1.) It should be tanky enough to joust and unload its ordnance before dying
#2.) It should hurt
#3.) It should be reasonably costed
#4.) There should be reasonable distinctions from a TIE-Bomber

In regards to #1, LWF does help a bit but at the cost of a precious mod slot which means no Guidance Chips or LRS, both of which are insanely important to a Punisher unless you're running a dedicated bomber and/or using Unguided Rockets.  "Reinforce" or something akin to "Reinforced Deflectors" is needed for this.  Also, the Minefield Mapper DOES help it unload its ordnance before dying, so there's not as much pressure to use it all.

For #2, well... to hurt enough you need to invest in it, which means it should feel good to load it out, which leads us to #3.

#3, a title with an effect similar to the Vaksai that reduces the cost of upgrades would be both thematic in the sense that you're decking out an ordnance platform with lots of ordnance while not being overpowered.

#4, the TIE-Bomber is more of an alpha striker whereas the TIE-Punisher is better for sustained.  The Punisher also can equip the Bomblet Generator, so it can also be a better bomber than the Bomber (and that's not including Conner Net + Deathrain shenanigans).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, f0rbiddenc00kie said:

In case anyone bothered to look at my thread on ship pricing, I concluded that the TIE-Punisher is the most overcosted ship in the game for its stats by a whopping 6 points.  That's even more than the pre-fix TIE-Advanced at 5 points.  This is mostly because of its mind-boggling 2-ATK primary.

From what I see on this forum, these are the expectations people have of the Punisher:
#1.) It should be tanky enough to joust and unload its ordnance before dying
#2.) It should hurt
#3.) It should be reasonably costed
#4.) There should be reasonable distinctions from a TIE-Bomber

In regards to #1, LWF does help a bit but at the cost of a precious mod slot which means no Guidance Chips or LRS, both of which are insanely important to a Punisher unless you're running a dedicated bomber and/or using Unguided Rockets.  "Reinforce" or something akin to "Reinforced Deflectors" is needed for this.  Also, the Minefield Mapper DOES help it unload its ordnance before dying, so there's not as much pressure to use it all.

For #2, well... to hurt enough you need to invest in it, which means it should feel good to load it out, which leads us to #3.

#3, a title with an effect similar to the Vaksai that reduces the cost of upgrades would be both thematic in the sense that you're decking out an ordnance platform with lots of ordnance while not being overpowered.

#4, the TIE-Bomber is more of an alpha striker whereas the TIE-Punisher is better for sustained.  The Punisher also can equip the Bomblet Generator, so it can also be a better bomber than the Bomber (and that's not including Conner Net + Deathrain shenanigans).

#1 is probably the most vital, it already has access to the tools to be super killy, particularly after this next wave, it just needs to be able to last long enough to use them all effectively.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Forgive me for bringing back this old thread. But nothing has really changed for Punishers in the last year.

I think TIE Punishers are an interesting ship. Granted, they're extended universe and non-canon, but they still look kinda cool, so I feel a little bad for them that they're just so bad. 

This is obviously the best thread title ever spawned for a TIE Punisher fix thread, so I'll just leave this here...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A title that gives it a free reload action at some point in the round, and can take a free 0 point mod in addition to paying for one?

So now we have a Punisher with unlimited ordnance at the cost of 1, as well as FCS, GCs and LWF.

Can't quite fit 4 in a list but it's a start...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Stevey86 said:

A title that gives it a free reload action at some point in the round, and can take a free 0 point mod in addition to paying for one?

So now we have a Punisher with unlimited ordnance at the cost of 1, as well as FCS, GCs and LWF.

Can't quite fit 4 in a list but it's a start...

I think that's a good place to start. If the Punisher and Bomber had a title that let them both take "any number of different modifications costing a combined value of 2 or less", it would be a good start. But it doesn't really help the fact that the Punisher is no more survivable and still more expensive than the Bomber... Also not sure Reload is the answer because the Punisher is just more expensive and less maneuverable than the GUNBOAT, so it's not going to do the GUNBOAT's job nearly as well. 

What about an Ordnance Salvo card? Fills a Torpedo slot and lets you perform an attack with up to two different secondary weapons in the combat phase. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

I think that's a good place to start. If the Punisher and Bomber had a title that let them both take "any number of different modifications costing a combined value of 2 or less", it would be a good start. But it doesn't really help the fact that the Punisher is no more survivable and still more expensive than the Bomber... Also not sure Reload is the answer because the Punisher is just more expensive and less maneuverable than the GUNBOAT, so it's not going to do the GUNBOAT's job nearly as well. 

What about an Ordnance Salvo card? Fills a Torpedo slot and lets you perform an attack with up to two different secondary weapons in the combat phase. 

The problem is once it's shot it's load (so to speak), the Punisher is all but useless. So either it needs a Reload, it's ordnance to be considerably cheaper, or to not discard missile/torp upgrades at all.

So, while I love the idea of it firing 2 missiles/torps in a single round (I've actually given the Gunboat this ability in my Squadrons variant), it's just gonna turn it into a flying brick sooner in the game unless it can have more ordnance (which is the one thing that sets it apart from the Bomber that hasn't been incorporated into the game).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would you fly a Punisher (and feel good about it) with a title like this?

TIE Inderdictor.  Imperial Only.  TIE Punisher Only.  Reduce the cost of each upgrade to 0.  When you are dealt damage, reduce that damage by one, to a minimum of one.  0 Points.

 

It still flies like a brick, lacks crew, TLT, and an EPT, but you can fully kit it out and it might survive one additional round.  It will still go down pretty fast, but you won't feel the sting of all the wasted points on munitions that you never got to fire.

Edited by HolySorcerer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think a punisher buff should be about bombs and not ordances ( because GUNBOAT ).  This role of super bomber is not taken in the Imperial faction. Maybe a mod tie only alowing to drop 2 similar bomb ( no action ones) with the curve 1 template or something that boots bombe damage like sabine and cad bane for other factions.

 

Also, " complaining moment", it is sad that they didn't make the TIE heavy bomber instead ( very personal point of view, i just like the aestethic of the asymetrical bomber).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, player2422845 said:

Also, " complaining moment", it is sad that they didn't make the TIE heavy bomber instead ( very personal point of view, i just like the aestethic of the asymetrical bomber).

Yeah, if they make an expansion pack for the Heavy Bomber, I'll actually happily forget the Punisher (sorry Punisher fans...). I think the Heavy Bomber is a less over-the-top look. But for game balance reasons, the Punisher deserves a fix, and the Empire deserves a true bomber. What if the TIE Heavy Bomber is a new pack with a card that fills a missile slot and adds a bomb slot and says TIE only? Then it fixes all three TIE Bombers, if it also has a cool non-unique Imperial only double-slot bomb. Maybe one that's not endless like bomblets (you still have to take EM), but does a massively devastating thing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, player2422845 said:

Also, " complaining moment", it is sad that they didn't make the TIE heavy bomber instead ( very personal point of view, i just like the aestethic of the asymetrical bomber).

 

5 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Yeah, if they make an expansion pack for the Heavy Bomber, I'll actually happily forget the Punisher

How about this one?

It looks much cooler with Defender wings :D

Edited by Stevey86

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Limited card: Combat Overhaul

Takes up a missile and torpedo slot. Grants the reload action, and bumps it's primary fire to 3. Allows the ship to still take a modification and a title down the road, keeps it's bombs and other ordinance that's now infinite. 

 

It still moved like a brick in mud, but has more teeth even though it's losing two ordinance slots. Not even sure what to cost this at.

With it having more primary, is was toying with granting it Miranda's ability to regen a shield or would that be a step to far? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Kieransi said:

Forgive me for bringing back this old thread. But nothing has really changed for Punishers in the last year.

I think TIE Punishers are an interesting ship. Granted, they're extended universe and non-canon, but they still look kinda cool, so I feel a little bad for them that they're just so bad. 

This is obviously the best thread title ever spawned for a TIE Punisher fix thread, so I'll just leave this here...

Never apologize for Punisher love or for bringing back the best title I ever put on a thread.

4 hours ago, Stevey86 said:

A title that gives it a free reload action at some point in the round, and can take a free 0 point mod in addition to paying for one?

So now we have a Punisher with unlimited ordnance at the cost of 1, as well as FCS, GCs and LWF.

Can't quite fit 4 in a list but it's a start...

The issue with this and a lot of the other proposed fixes I've seen people put out is that they make the ship more efficient but don't fix the biggest issue with the ship which is that it just dies to fast to make decent use of all the ordinance you want to cram on to it.

There's also no good reason that the ps4+ pilots shouldn't have had an ept slot, having one wouldn't 'fix' the ship but the lack of one exacerbates the issues it has with standing out from it's cheaper little sibling and blocks a lot of potential fun and interesting builds which would have at least given it a clear and unique role separating it from other munition orientated ships in combination with the system slot and boost action.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Captain Lackwit said:

So, crazy idea.

What if the TIE Punisher was a TIE Super Shuttle that had four crew slots?

Even with Mara Jade and Hux (or whatever else you use the other crew slots for), I think it's still going to be an objectively worse Palp shuttle than the Upsilon or the Reaper. But I still love the idea. I just think it needs to be in conjunction with another, separate Punisher fix.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would consider doing something like the Advanced Targeting Computer for the Advanced.    The difference, is make it for ordnance instead of primary weapons.  Maybe add hits (or crits?) by spending Ordnance tokens to add to the hit.   

Or a zero point system slot that lets you spend an upgrade of the same type to change a number of results equal to squad points, to hits or crits even.  

Something like this makes the punisher very dangerous, but still has its weaknesses.

Edited by That Blasted Samophlange

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Maybe add hits (or crits?) by spending Ordnance tokens to add to the hit.   

This concept is very good because it could illustrate the ship "firing all out". I think if it is designed properly it could reborn the ship and give it a unique play-style.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...