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Princezilla

Punish me Harder

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So I think pretty much everyone agrees that the TIE Punisher is the Empire ship most in need of some love, the poor thing just never really worked out like it should. Virtually every other ship has at least one pilot that sees use yet since it's release this BBW Bomber has lingered at the bottom of Imperial usage tiers only dusted off occasionally for novelty factor in the most casual of settings. Part of it's trouble is rooted in it's inability to stand out against it's cheaper, leaner little sibling which creates a problem; how do you bring this voluptuous beauty up to snuff and make her stand out without making the bomber obsolete? What does everyone think is the best way to 'fix' the Punisher in a way which separates it from the bomber without completely overshadowing it?

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There are a few things coming out in the next wave that are expecting to help the Tie Punisher.   There is something that takes 2 bomb slots that is a Bomblet Generator?   There is also a System slot that is supposed to help Bombs out somewhat.  These are unknown, but they can be used by the Punisher and not the Bomber.  

Unguided Rockets might also help, but are not specific to just the Tie Punisher.

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2 minutes ago, Princezilla said:

... I specifically said Empire. Which none of those are.

 

Ooops. Then you are correct, sir. I thought your second sentence did not reference the "empire", as in ... virtually all other EMPIRE ships ... but meant all ships.

Edited by MaxPower

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2 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

There are a few things coming out in the next wave that are expecting to help the Tie Punisher.   There is something that takes 2 bomb slots that is a Bomblet Generator?   There is also a System slot that is supposed to help Bombs out somewhat.  These are unknown, but they can be used by the Punisher and not the Bomber.  

Unguided Rockets might also help, but are not specific to just the Tie Punisher.

 

2 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

There are a few things coming out in the next wave that are expecting to help the Tie Punisher.   There is something that takes 2 bomb slots that is a Bomblet Generator?   There is also a System slot that is supposed to help Bombs out somewhat.  These are unknown, but they can be used by the Punisher and not the Bomber.  

Unguided Rockets might also help, but are not specific to just the Tie Punisher.

 

6 minutes ago, Innese said:

Unguided rockets will give it a bit of life, though it also helps out the bomber which may render any benefit to the Punisher useless. The only other 'fix' that might be in the pipeline is the new system that is coming in the Scurrg

Unguided are interesting but they don't really synergize well with anything that separates the Punisher from the Bomber. They can't be modded outside of the focus so most of the best System Upgrades are useless and they don't synergize well with either of the aces' abilities, to top it off you'll be needing your action to focus so no boosting and you'll need EI for action bombs.

A system that boosts bombs could definitely help a lot though, any speculation on what it does exactly?

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Just now, Princezilla said:

 

 

Unguided are interesting but they don't really synergize well with anything that separates the Punisher from the Bomber. They can't be modded outside of the focus so most of the best System Upgrades are useless and they don't synergize well with either of the aces' abilities, to top it off you'll be needing your action to focus so no boosting and you'll need EI for action bombs.

A system that boosts bombs could definitely help a lot though, any speculation on what it does exactly?

The speculation I've seen the most is that it allows you to place mines during setup, but currently there is no way to know for sure.

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1 minute ago, Innese said:

The speculation I've seen the most is that it allows you to place mines during setup, but currently there is no way to know for sure.

Hrmm that seems unlikely to me given that a big part of mines' effectiveness comes from the ability to deploy them at times when your opponent has limited options to react. 

 

It could be something which effects what template is used to drop them like the bombardier crew or Emon's ability but I'm not sure they'd go that route again.

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41 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

How so?

Well the first two are very underwelming and company overshadowed by the alternatives, the third is basically just used for filler but honestly that's all it was supposed to be the last I have no idea. However that's off topic and has nothing to do with the buxsom bombing beauty which brought us here.

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49 minutes ago, Princezilla said:

 

 

Unguided are interesting but they don't really synergize well with anything that separates the Punisher from the Bomber. They can't be modded outside of the focus so most of the best System Upgrades are useless and they don't synergize well with either of the aces' abilities, to top it off you'll be needing your action to focus so no boosting and you'll need EI for action bombs.

A system that boosts bombs could definitely help a lot though, any speculation on what it does exactly?

Thinking of a bombing Punisher, Unguided Rockets could be good.  Systems wise there are loads of options - Sensor Jammer (plus Lightweight Frame makes them tough), Advanced Sensors (deploy action bombs before moving), Collision Detector (particularly Deathrain), Enhanced Scopes (get those action bombs out before anyone else moves).  Focus for UR could be gained by taking the non-action bombs, using General Hux or Fleet Officer.

UR are obviously a big no-no for Redline.

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3 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

Thinking of a bombing Punisher, Unguided Rockets could be good.  Systems wise there are loads of options - Sensor Jammer (plus Lightweight Frame makes them tough), Advanced Sensors (deploy action bombs before moving), Collision Detector (particularly Deathrain), Enhanced Scopes (get those action bombs out before anyone else moves).  Focus for UR could be gained by taking the non-action bombs, using General Hux or Fleet Officer.

UR are obviously a big no-no for Redline.

Poor poor Redline... That is a fair point about it being good for increasing their usefulness after they've dropped off their bombs, the lack of modding won't really matter for them because if they're geared up for bombing it's unlikely that they'll have more then a focus token when they shoot anyway.

Just now, FatherTurin said:

I have nothing constructive to add to this conversation, just came here to say:

 

dat thread title tho....

I have absolutely no idea what you could possibly be talking about. ?

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3 hours ago, Princezilla said:

Hrmm that seems unlikely to me given that a big part of mines' effectiveness comes from the ability to deploy them at times when your opponent has limited options to react. 

 

It could be something which effects what template is used to drop them like the bombardier crew or Emon's ability but I'm not sure they'd go that route again.

True, but equipping multiple ordnance, you risk the danger of not being able to unleash it.  A system slot that lets the ordnance deploy during setup lets you put out persistent bombs, between asteroids or obstacles, forcing the opponent to alter their initial flight path.

assuming the bombs are placed after ships.

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10 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

True, but equipping multiple ordnance, you risk the danger of not being able to unleash it.  A system slot that lets the ordnance deploy during setup lets you put out persistent bombs, between asteroids or obstacles, forcing the opponent to alter their initial flight path.

assuming the bombs are placed after ships.

This is typically the Punishers fate if he's carrying ordinance; he's not agile or tough enough to survive long enough in a competitive game. Sad. They should have native Advanced Slam as it was invented by the Empire, but alas, the designers dropped the ball yet again.

Edited by clanofwolves

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I think the only way to make the Punisher different to the TIE Bomber is Pilot Ability. As you have already said, what ever the Punisher can do, the Bomber does more efficiently, so my thinking is, something to do with the actual pilots themselves. Any ordinance released will just be as useful on a bomber, albeit it will mean a new expac, that seems to be the way FFG fixes old ships. As much as the StarViper is an autothruster box, the Punisher seems to be a TIE MK II box atm. 

Unguided rockets cant use Chips, or Target Locks, with the advent of HotCop crew, will these even be useful? High PS ship with a HotCop can shut down these rockets straight away. 

In a way I wish FFG would shake up a lot of the older ships at once, instead of the dribs and drabs approach we have atm, it reminds me too much of GW and that is a bad memory.

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21 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

This is typically the Punishers fate if he's carrying ordinance; he's not agile or tough enough to survive long enough in a competitive game. Sad. They should have native Advanced Slam as it was invented by the Empire, but alas, the designers dropped the ball yet again.

Eh, in current canon that's no longer true and so far Rebels are the only ones shown with it since the reboot. The boost can still be useful particularly for Deathrain with EI, though an interesting fix could be a title that let's them drop a bomb for free after boosting or maybe one that allows that or a TL so it's useful for ordinance builds too.

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A Punisher title that discounts the cost of Torpedo, Missile, and Bomb upgrades by up to 2 points to a minimum cost of 1 is what it would take. As for the new cards:

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (21)
Collision Detector (0)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)

4 of those is durable, but seems less viable than 5

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)

It's likely an imperial player will have 4 Bombers already, between being an early wave ship and the rerelease with veterans. I don't expect anyone to have more than 2 Punishers though. Only one Unguided Rockets in each TIE/AG expansion. I'm planning on getting 2, not running a full list of 4. Running some Bombers along with them could make for a fun list.

Edited by Vulf

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6 minutes ago, Vulf said:

A Punisher title that discounts the cost of Torpedo, Missile, and Bomb upgrades by up to 2 points to a minimum cost of 1 is what it would take. As for the new cards:

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (21)
Collision Detector (0)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)

4 of those is durable, but seems less viable than 5

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)

It's likely an imperial player will have 4 Bombers already, between being an early wave ship and the rerelease with veterans. I don't expect anyone to have more than 2 Punishers though. Only one Unguided Rockets in each TIE/AG expansion. I'm planning on getting 2, not running a full list of 4. Running some Bombers along with them could make for a fun list.

It's kinda blunt and really risks totally screwing Bombers out of their original role.

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Imperial Supply Lines, missile slot, imperial only, 2pts. You may equip up to 2 missiles or torpedoes or bombs costing up to 6pts. You may make this choice after your opponent reveals thier squad  

 

4 point discount.  Allows for more options. Allows for just MORE BOOM for cheaper.  Let's bombers be scary to whatever you face. Would mean you could take unguided rockets and still fill your other slots with meta hunting BOOM.  Redline- no longer has to choose. Deathrain gets to use his pilot ability more than 2-3 times. Deathfire too.  

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5 hours ago, Princezilla said:

Unguided are interesting but they don't really synergize well with anything that separates the Punisher from the Bomber. They can't be modded outside of the focus so most of the best System Upgrades are useless and they don't synergize well with either of the aces' abilities, to top it off you'll be needing your action to focus so no boosting and you'll need EI for action bombs.

A system that boosts bombs could definitely help a lot though, any speculation on what it does exactly?

Yeah, Rockets are something that the Bombers can use.   Also, Redline won't have a use for them.  Still, I think if you aren't hung up on trying to synergize the System with the Rockets, you should be fine.   You can always do Advanced Sensors.  

I have no idea what the new Bomb stuff do.  I rarely try to speculate these days. 

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