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The Fel Challenge

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It was:

Luke Skywalker

Expertise/R2D2/VT/Flichettes (I'd envisioned him NOT being the first ship targeted in each of my games...which he was. Every.Freaking.Game.). 

Miranda Doni

TLT/ASlam/EM/HM/PB/CN/CM/Sabine

 

Edited by Scopes

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Well, here is a list I lost against, while flying Miranda and Dash
 

Carnor Jax — TIE Interceptor 26
Push the Limit 3
Stealth Device 3
Autothrusters 2
Royal Guard TIE 0
Ship Total: 34
   
Lieutenant Colzet — TIE Advanced 23
Proton Rockets 3
Sensor Jammer 0
Shield Upgrade 4
TIE/x1 0
Ship Total: 30
   
"Backdraft" — TIE/sf Fighter 27
Predator 3
Sensor Jammer 4
Lightweight Frame 2
Special Ops Training 0

Ship Total: 36

Jax is there to really make those sensor Jammers count
That was about 2 weeks ago, really close game.

Thought I share the list, maybe someone can
repeat the performance ;)

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If you're tempted by triple interceptors, I'd have to wonder if this wouldn't work better:

Soontir Fel (27)
Push the Limit (3)
Hull Upgrade (3)
Autothrusters (2)
Royal Guard TIE (0)

Carnor Jax (26)
Push the Limit (3)
Hull Upgrade (3)
Autothrusters (2)
Royal Guard TIE (0)

The Inquisitor (25)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE/v1 (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

 

Hull vs stealth is always an interesting debate, but palpless, in these new bomb meta, I'd rather the HP, I think.

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18 hours ago, Reiver said:

Legend has it that this was actually done as a 'joke' list at tournaments at least once.

... The dude actually won a couple games, too. :D

This was done at an Australia regional... The dude had not been playing that long and Soontir was his favorite pilot... If I remember correctly, he went 3-3 using just the standard 35 point Soontir...

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On 5/15/2017 at 1:37 AM, Biophysical said:

As I mention in the other thread, I got a local tournament win (16 player kit).  The final was Fel/Quickdraw/Backdraft vs Bossk/Dengar.  Bossk had Homing Missiles and 4-LOM for token denial.  The player is someone I've played before and seen play more.  He has at least a number lot local tournament wins and has beaten me the previous time I played him.   I had a bid, and so all of my ships moved after all of his. The SFs set up to joust Bossk, and Fel flanked wide, so it would either be Fel vs Dengar, or Fel flanking Dengar as Dengar moved to engaged the SFs.  Fel put some early damage on Dengar (2-3 shields) as Dengar moved to support Bossk against the SFs.  Backdraft took a big punch early, but he and Quickdraw mauled Bossk.  I got lucky when Dengar made a torpedo attack against Backdraft and did minimal damage.  I made up for it by throwing Fel into range 2 of Bossk completely unnecessarily, and used a move that allowed no arc dodging to occur.  Fel got one-shotted in a rookie mistake, but Quickdraw cleaned up Dengar while Backdraft tried to stay alive.

This isn't much of a data point, but it intrigued me and made me want to explore the build further.

Just out of curiosity, what was your setup?  I've been looking to run a Fel/BD/QD list (experimenting on Vassal right now) and it seems fairly promising so far.  Curious what upgrades you prioritized.  I'm thinking FCS/Crack Shot on QD and VI/FCS/LWF on BD.

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I've been thinking about Fel with S/Fs as well, here's my first draft


++ Standard (Imperial) [99 Points] ++

+ TIE Interceptor +

PS 9 - •Soontir Fel [34 Points]: Autothrusters, Push the Limit, Royal Guard TIE, Targeting Computer

+ TIE/sf Fighter +

PS 7 - •"Backdraft" [32 Points]: Fire-Control System, Lightweight Frame, Special Ops Training, Veteran Instincts

PS 9 - •"Quickdraw" [33 Points]: Fire-Control System, Lightweight Frame, Special Ops Training, •A Score to Settle

++ Total: [99 Points] ++

Created with BattleScribe

 

i like the symmetry of 3 PS9 aces, and I changed QuickDraw's EPT to AStS after reading another posters' blog about his own experiences with S/Fs

Edited by 5-Cents

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1 hour ago, RampancyTW said:

Just out of curiosity, what was your setup?  I've been looking to run a Fel/BD/QD list (experimenting on Vassal right now) and it seems fairly promising so far.  Curious what upgrades you prioritized.  I'm thinking FCS/Crack Shot on QD and VI/FCS/LWF on BD.

 

11 minutes ago, 5-Cents said:

I've been thinking about Fel with S/Fs as well, here's my first draft


++ Standard (Imperial) [99 Points] ++

+ TIE Interceptor +

PS 9 - •Soontir Fel [34 Points]: Autothrusters, Push the Limit, Royal Guard TIE, Targeting Computer

+ TIE/sf Fighter +

PS 7 - •"Backdraft" [32 Points]: Fire-Control System, Lightweight Frame, Special Ops Training, Veteran Instincts

PS 9 - •"Quickdraw" [33 Points]: Fire-Control System, Lightweight Frame, Special Ops Training, •A Score to Settle

++ Total: [99 Points] ++

Created with BattleScribe

 

i like the symmetry of 3 PS9 aces, and I changed QuickDraw's EPT to AStS after reading another posters' blog about his own experiences with S/Fs

I used the list 5-Cents just listed, except I had Adaptability instead of A Score To Settle.  I have recently switched to A Score To Settle, though.  I think it's better overall, but I'm not sure which I like for the toughest matchups.

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18 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

 

I used the list 5-Cents just listed, except I had Adaptability instead of A Score To Settle.  I have recently switched to A Score To Settle, though.  I think it's better overall, but I'm not sure which I like for the toughest matchups.

Gotcha.  I've been thinking HU on Fel to help him stay alive until the endgame, but I'm not married to it.  ASTS sounds great against 2-ship lists.

What do you think the toughest matchups are?

Edited by RampancyTW

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29 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

 

I used the list 5-Cents just listed, except I had Adaptability instead of A Score To Settle.  I have recently switched to A Score To Settle, though.  I think it's better overall, but I'm not sure which I like for the toughest matchups.

Awesome! Good to know my listbuilding isn't as rusty as my play is sure to be ?  (I've been out of the game for a while, and I'm just now poking my head back in)

 

How have your games been going? Do you fly the S/Fs together as wingmen or do you split all 3 ships up?

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40 minutes ago, RampancyTW said:

Gotcha.  I've been thinking HU on Fel to help him stay alive until the endgame, but I'm not married to it.  ASTS sounds great against 2-ship lists.

What do you think the toughest matchups are?

I'm not sure yet.  I haven't played the biggest lists coming out of Worlds yet.  

Edited by Biophysical

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24 minutes ago, 5-Cents said:

Awesome! Good to know my listbuilding isn't as rusty as my play is sure to be ?  (I've been out of the game for a while, and I'm just now poking my head back in)

 

How have your games been going? Do you fly the S/Fs together as wingmen or do you split all 3 ships up?

As a rule the SFs are together, and more central, while Fel flanks.

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My worry is bombs. You can't arc dodge well placed or even marginally well placed bombs. Sabine and cluster mines in Miranda can just eliminate your 35 points. 

 

I really do want fly interceptors now. 

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For the upcoming tournament, I'm considering the below 2 lists:

1. Wave X palpaces 97/98 pts

35 pts PS9 Soontir Fel (PTL+AT+SD+title)
34 pts PS9 Backdraft (VI+FCS+ Primed Thrusters OR Pattern Analyzer + title + LWF)
29 pts PS2 Omicron Group Pilot (Colission Detector + Palp)

2. Stridan, lord of shenanigans + aces 97/98 pts

34/35 pts PS9 Soontir Fel (PTL+AT+TC OR SD+title)
26 pts PS8 Omega Leader (Juke+Comms Relay)
37 pts PS4 Major Stridan (Adv. Sensor+systems officer)

So far, list #2 fared better in my test matches against the current meta lists, much to everyone's surprise. However, the rise of high-ps-dual-torpedo build inspired from world champ's list means that Omega Leader could be a hindrance in early matches. Soontir had no problem arc dodging the torps, and even when it's in the arc I've evaded a couple of full 4-damage torpedoes at Range 3.

list #1 was developed in response to this potential shift in the meta. In this case, however I had to flew Soontir differently. Whereas he used to hunt down other ships in a rather aggressive manner, the bait-and-switch tactics work pretty well with this list. Backdraft does the heavyweight lifting for this list. He can still perform some fancy maneuvers thanks to Primed Thrusters or Pattern Analyzer. One could argue for Quickdraw over Backdraft, but to be honest Quickdraw's ability relies on him dying to be powerful. One can simply ignore quickdraw and finish the other first. Even worse, Quickdraw denies the single advantage that Tie SF had over a tie advanced: rear arc. Quickdraw moves like X-wings, and that means very easy for other aces to set up a flank if you can't make the best use of that rear arc. Backdraft on the other moves like Firesprays and even simulates Kath Scarlet's offerings in smaller package: The rear hits harder than the front. And if you can land a shot back and forth, you're already profiting with Backdraft.

Current conclusion: Dengar is the kryptonite to Soontir. Of all games I've played, I became extra careful in planning maneuver if the other side fields Dengar. And it's not because of the turrets. Soontir was smiling when he saw Han, but again jumpmaster's amazing dial means it's very easy for the initiative Dengar to set up a block for his other ships to focus fire on Soontir. I also played against a PS10 Poe but he isn't so much of a threat, particularly due to the fact that PS10 Poe has to give up repositioning to gain focus token. 

Edited by Grivoire

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1 hour ago, Shenannigan said:

My worry is bombs. You can't arc dodge well placed or even marginally well placed bombs. Sabine and cluster mines in Miranda can just eliminate your 35 points. 

 

I really do want fly interceptors now. 

That's really where the SFs come in.  They have solid hit points and a rear arc.  You can run away from K-wings while shooting them down.  Or you can drop heavily modified attacks into them as they make bombing runs on Fel (who can get one or two shots in and die and it's okay).  

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32 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

That's really where the SFs come in.  They have solid hit points and a rear arc.  You can run away from K-wings while shooting them down.  Or you can drop heavily modified attacks into them as they make bombing runs on Fel (who can get one or two shots in and die and it's okay).  

I totally agree with this. Fel is great as a bait in today's meta. Then after the dust has settled, he could become a powerful endgame piece. Or, he can die trying and pass on the torch for SF to end the game.

Edited by Grivoire

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3 hours ago, Grivoire said:

I totally agree with this. Fel is great as a bait in today's meta. Then after the dust has settled, he could become a powerful endgame piece. Or, he can die trying and pass on the torch for SF to end the game.

This is kind of the crux of it really. Losing ships is part of the game. You need to make sure your endgame piece can win the game. What the Imperials have the other factions lack are multiple options for the endgame. Who really wants to face any of these ships st the end?

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I did something really bad.  I went for an all Interceptor list, really basic....no tricks.  

1 • Soontir Fel - TIE Interceptor - Push the Limit - Stealth Device - Autothrusters - Royal Guard TIE (35)
2 • Lieutenant Lorrir - TIE Interceptor - Autothrusters (25)
3 • Alpha Squadron Pilot - TIE Interceptor - Autothrusters (20)
4 • Alpha Squadron Pilot - TIE Interceptor - Autothrusters (20)

 

I played 2 games with this list, against sorta competitive lists:  Dash + Miranda and Ryad + Redline + Tomax.  I got completely wrecked.  Managed to take only one ship off the board and that was Tomax.  My list just melted, usually about turn 3 of each game.  Soontir died hard and fast, usually with 5 or 6 damage cards.  The old Interceptor just isnt what it used to be.  

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2 hours ago, vyrago said:

I did something really bad.  I went for an all Interceptor list, really basic....no tricks.  

1 • Soontir Fel - TIE Interceptor - Push the Limit - Stealth Device - Autothrusters - Royal Guard TIE (35)
2 • Lieutenant Lorrir - TIE Interceptor - Autothrusters (25)
3 • Alpha Squadron Pilot - TIE Interceptor - Autothrusters (20)
4 • Alpha Squadron Pilot - TIE Interceptor - Autothrusters (20)

 

I played 2 games with this list, against sorta competitive lists:  Dash + Miranda and Ryad + Redline + Tomax.  I got completely wrecked.  Managed to take only one ship off the board and that was Tomax.  My list just melted, usually about turn 3 of each game.  Soontir died hard and fast, usually with 5 or 6 damage cards.  The old Interceptor just isnt what it used to be.  

Yeeeeeeeah, all Intercepters is basically Fel, Turr and Jax or bust. And that was back when TLT was the new meta list. Fly Fel with different wingmen and it'll go better.

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On 16.5.2017 at 1:42 AM, Reiver said:

If you're tempted by triple interceptors, I'd have to wonder if this wouldn't work better:

Soontir Fel (27)
Push the Limit (3)
Hull Upgrade (3)
Autothrusters (2)
Royal Guard TIE (0)

Carnor Jax (26)
Push the Limit (3)
Hull Upgrade (3)
Autothrusters (2)
Royal Guard TIE (0)

The Inquisitor (25)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE/v1 (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Hull vs stealth is always an interesting debate, but palpless, in these new bomb meta, I'd rather the HP, I think.

I have flown this list for a while competitively or rather the stealth device version of that list, mainly within the uboot meta, before Dengar. And overall I think that SDs are indeed not the best choice for that list, BUT targeting computers would be a major buff to that list and so would MKIIs. The ability to flank from 3 directions is great with that list, but you really want to increase your damage output when spread them out and fly them defensively with a lot of rests and moving out of harms way. The ships in the flanks of your enemies need to wear them down fast so that your list can enter the late game from a good position. 

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On 5/19/2017 at 8:14 PM, SEApocalypse said:

I have flown this list for a while competitively or rather the stealth device version of that list, mainly within the uboot meta, before Dengar. And overall I think that SDs are indeed not the best choice for that list, BUT targeting computers would be a major buff to that list and so would MKIIs. The ability to flank from 3 directions is great with that list, but you really want to increase your damage output when spread them out and fly them defensively with a lot of rests and moving out of harms way. The ships in the flanks of your enemies need to wear them down fast so that your list can enter the late game from a good position. 

So you're suggesting trading the SDs or extra HP for targeting computers? I can see it - you lose durability in return for actual proper firepower. Heck, this could let you throw on a Tracer Missile to the Inquisitor, too - won't help Fel on the first round of shooting, but I certainly won't say no to banking target locks all round, especially if they face anything that moves at PS9+. And you're still at 99pts for the init bid!

Not so sure on the idea of MKIIs -  they're fun, but I feel Autothrusters are a must-have to avoid a lot of matchups going severely lopsided, and two extra greens just aren't worth the mod slot, even if they'd be worth the points.

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3 hours ago, Reiver said:

So you're suggesting trading the SDs or extra HP for targeting computers? I can see it - you lose durability in return for actual proper firepower. Heck, this could let you throw on a Tracer Missile to the Inquisitor, too - won't help Fel on the first round of shooting, but I certainly won't say no to banking target locks all round, especially if they face anything that moves at PS9+. And you're still at 99pts for the init bid!

Not so sure on the idea of MKIIs -  they're fun, but I feel Autothrusters are a must-have to avoid a lot of matchups going severely lopsided, and two extra greens just aren't worth the mod slot, even if they'd be worth the points.

The autothrusters are an auto-include, the MKIIs are an option instead of the targeting computer, especially on Soontir, who is stressed nearly every turn and extremely vulnerable to blocking. Adding a three bank to his soontir 2 makes you a lot harder to get blocked. The limited movement options on the interceptor when stressed every turn was my personal main reason to switch to Mindlink lists. It just so much more fun to have the whole dial instead those few greens. 

But I admit, I still would lean to targeting computers over MKIIs, you just need to be really careful with your flying, which should be easy enough to do as you can attack from three vectors, which allows to you break off one attack cheap enough, especially when all three ships offer high precision attacks thanks to the targeting computer and double modded 3 dice attack rolls. 

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On 5/19/2017 at 5:42 AM, vyrago said:

I did something really bad.  I went for an all Interceptor list, really basic....no tricks.
...
3 • Alpha Squadron Pilot - TIE Interceptor - Autothrusters (20)

TBH, Alpha Squadron Pilots never really worked. The only generics that can kind of work are Royal Guard Pilots.

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