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Exiting Terrain and Engaging

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If i exit a terrain and abide by the rules while shifting out and touch the terrain edge AND a side from an enemy unit, is this unit now engaged with me ? If so, there happens no align or any sort, i could not make sense of the rules here.

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81.4: • When a unit exits a piece of terrain, that unit cannot be overlapping or touching any other obstacle.

A somewhat similar question came up the other day, in which I charged a piece of terrain that an enemy model had just exited. We ruled that the charge failed, but the charging unit still occupied the terrain and became engaged with the unit that had just exited the terrain. Can anyone weigh in on that?

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9 hours ago, Bhelliom said:

81.4: • When a unit exits a piece of terrain, that unit cannot be overlapping or touching any other obstacle.

A somewhat similar question came up the other day, in which I charged a piece of terrain that an enemy model had just exited. We ruled that the charge failed, but the charging unit still occupied the terrain and became engaged with the unit that had just exited the terrain. Can anyone weigh in on that?

I believe this is a successful charge.  but I have been wrong before.

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11 hours ago, Klaxas said:

I believe this is a successful charge.  but I have been wrong before.

It is.

 

The rules on terrain explicitly state that if you enter terrain when an enemy unit is touching it, you resolve a collision.

 

Charge triggers on collision, so the attack is part of resolving said collision. 

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31 minutes ago, Darth Matthew said:

Does charge trigger collision, or does the charge modifier modify the collision to be a charge?

As soon as you occupy the terrain, you're discarding the dial that made your movement a charge.

Good point.

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1 hour ago, Darth Matthew said:

Does charge trigger collision, or does the charge modifier modify the collision to be a charge?

As soon as you occupy the terrain, you're discarding the dial that made your movement a charge.

 

 

I see people frequently mentioning that the right dial is discarded when entering terrain. Where does that come from?

 

What I find in 81.2 on the RRG doesn't seem to fit:

'After the unit resolves all effects of entering the terrain, its activation immediately ends. If it had a bonus action or other game effects to perform, these are canceled.'

That wouldn't remove a charge modifier, or a +defense modifier. It would stop you from shifting, reforming, rallying, or using a skill action on your second dial.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

I see people frequently mentioning that the right dial is discarded when entering terrain. Where does that come from?

 

What I find in 81.2 on the RRG doesn't seem to fit:

'After the unit resolves all effects of entering the terrain, its activation immediately ends. If it had a bonus action or other game effects to perform, these are canceled.'

That wouldn't remove a charge modifier, or a +defense modifier. It would stop you from shifting, reforming, rallying, or using a skill action on your second dial.

Thanks for that. My reading had been to discard the second dial based on that same rule reference.

I appreciate the clarification!

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33 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

That wouldn't remove a charge modifier, or a +defense modifier. It would stop you from shifting, reforming, rallying, or using a skill action on your second dial.

EDIT: So I think I misread your post and thought you said it wouldn't stop those actions. So we actually agree, but I won't delete the rest of my post.

Modifiers would still happen, but shifting, reforming, rallying, or using a skill are all considered bonus actions, so according to the rule you quoted, they would be cancelled. The list of existing modifiers includes: hit, surge, morale, accuracy, mortal strike, turn, wheel, charge, and turning charge. Rule 14 (Bonus Actions) clarifies that any action on the modifier dial is a bonus action (march, shift, reform, melee attack, ranged attack, rally, or skill).

So imagine a fictional world where your Reanimates had both Lance Corporal and Aggressive Drummer. This would let you set a march action that becomes a charge because of Aggressive Drummer,  and still set your modifier dial to a morale (because of Lance Corporal). In this case, you will enter the terrain, resolve the attack from the charge, and still add your morale, because it is a modifier.

Now imagine you have a unit with War Crier. You march toward the terrain as your action with a skill on your modifier dial. You enter the terrain, but there is an enemy touching the terrain. This means you receive a panic token because you are touching an enemy unit but did not use a charge. It's no big deal because you're gonna get rid of your panic token with War Crier, right? Nope. Because you cancel bonus actions after entering terrain and if the skill is on your modifier dial, it is a bonus action. You keep the panic token.

Edited by Budgernaut

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22 minutes ago, maxam said:

Thanks for that. My reading had been to discard the second dial based on that same rule reference.

I appreciate the clarification!

With the way that the rules are organized, I've missed stuff before. There seem to be enough people under the impression that the second dial gets discarded that I figured that it might actually be buried somewhere that I'm not looking.

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12 hours ago, WWHSD said:

With the way that the rules are organized, I've missed stuff before. There seem to be enough people under the impression that the second dial gets discarded that I figured that it might actually be buried somewhere that I'm not looking.

So we know the bonus actions would be discarded, but people make the argument that as long as the right-side dial the wasn't a bonus action then it doesn't get discarded.  I think this may be wrong though.  The rule states that bonus actions are cancelled but it also states that "other game effects"  that the unit had to perform are cancelled.  There's a solid argument here that the attack at the end of a charge, while it doesn't count as a bonus action, could certainly fall under "other game effects".

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4 minutes ago, Willange said:

So we know the bonus actions would be discarded, but people make the argument that as long as the right-side dial the wasn't a bonus action then it doesn't get discarded.  I think this may be wrong though.  The rule states that bonus actions are cancelled but it also states that "other game effects"  that the unit had to perform are cancelled.  There's a solid argument here that the attack at the end of a charge, while it doesn't count as a bonus action, could certainly fall under "other game effects".

The charge modifier is applied to your March or Shift before you've even collided. The melee attack from a charge seems like it would be an effect from a collision which you are told to resolve. 

RRG, pg. 19:
'When a unit enters a piece of terrain that an enemy is touching, those units resolve any effects of a collision as if the unit had collided with the enemy' 

 

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7 minutes ago, Willange said:

So we know the bonus actions would be discarded, but people make the argument that as long as the right-side dial the wasn't a bonus action then it doesn't get discarded.  I think this may be wrong though.  The rule states that bonus actions are cancelled but it also states that "other game effects"  that the unit had to perform are cancelled.  There's a solid argument here that the attack at the end of a charge, while it doesn't count as a bonus action, could certainly fall under "other game effects".

I've thought the same thing about that rule:

81.2, second bullet: "After the unit resolves all effects of entering the terrain, its activation immediately ends. If it had a bonus action or other game effects to perform, these are canceled."

But then, later on in 81, it says:

81.8, third bullet: "When a unit enters a piece of terrain that an enemy is touching, those units resolve any effects of a collision as if the unit had collided with the enemy."

So on the one hand, you do resolve any effects of a collision, but not other game effects. My question is, what other game effects could you have that are not bonus actions and are not effects of a collision that would be cancelled after entering terrain? I can't think of any, but I'm sure there must be some. 

HYPOTHETICAL: If there was an upgrade that said, "After performing a [march] that does not contact an enemy unit, you may remove 1 bane token from your unit." In this case, I think that would be an effect that would not happen if you entered terrain.

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Both of your responses make sense to me in regards to the collision. Thanks for clarifying!

 

It definitely leaves the question of what the " other effects" would even be though

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20 minutes ago, Willange said:

It definitely leaves the question of what the " other effects" would even be though

Wind Rune? The reform would be canceled if the shift had collided with terrain which you then occupied.. 

The reform is kind of pointless once you have occupied terrain but it's a template for the sort of thing that this rule would cover.

 

Crap. That's an action. Not an "other effect".


Upgrade%20-%20Wind%20Rune.png
 

Edited by WWHSD

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