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Arcanis161

Raider: Quick and Random Tactics Question

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Define 'wolfpack' please. I assume you mean in a tight group of 2 or 3, maybe in triangular formation with three?

I do well with Raiders overall but I rarely run them right next to each other. They usually work better in support of other parts of your fleet. Spreading them out a bit makes it harder for enemy squadrons to avoid the threat of their flak for more than a turn or so.

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I have a 4 Raider + Avenger list I live to play with. It doesn't need a fighter cover and with Screed and Ion Cannons it's really annoying to play against. It actually likes both first and second player and although it's sometimes tricky to fly, you can get the grasp of it in a few games. So in short: They work.

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I ran two raiders at worlds. I didn't do a wolfpack as I designed one to be a flanker and a second one as ISD support.

However I ran Wolfpack raiders early wave 2 and it is a solid strategy. I would definitely do a wolfpack run if I ever put my mad fleet (ISD, 5 Raiders, Gozanti) on a table.

 

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1 hour ago, Snipafist said:

Define 'wolfpack' please. I assume you mean in a tight group of 2 or 3, maybe in triangular formation with three?

I do well with Raiders overall but I rarely run them right next to each other. They usually work better in support of other parts of your fleet. Spreading them out a bit makes it harder for enemy squadrons to avoid the threat of their flak for more than a turn or so.

It's mostly trying to take advantage of their four dice out of their front arcs. I figured three of the Raider-1s with Ordinance Experts flying close together would be cheap and nasty for any medium or large ship.

Edited by Arcanis161

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16 minutes ago, Arcanis161 said:

It's mostly trying to take advantage of their four dice out of their front arcs. I figured three of the Raider-1s with Ordinance Experts flying close together would be cheap and nasty for any medium or large ship.

The problem that you'll encounter is that any star destroyer with Gunnery teams would kill two of them before they'll have a chance to shoot. They're better used threatening different ships at the same time as a front arc even from a single Raider can put a lot of hurt on a ship (In one of my regional games I killed Admonition with a double arc raider and most wanted).

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You can use them as a pair, one jumped forward to the side of a large ship ( on imps) ready to strike with a double arc  with the second staying at long range and angled to the side.Next round the large ship has a choice, go slow and get clobbered by the raider at its side or jump forward and get clobbered by the one in front. Never ever send them in together against powerful arcs, they evaporate, use them as beaters or traps,not as face to face sluggers even in large groups.

Edited by Jondavies72

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54 minutes ago, pt106 said:

The problem that you'll encounter is that any star destroyer with Gunnery teams would kill two of them before they'll have a chance to shoot. They're better used threatening different ships at the same time as a front arc even from a single Raider can put a lot of hurt on a ship (In one of my regional games I killed Admonition with a double arc raider and most wanted).

This. 

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2 hours ago, Stasy said:

I'm shooting to learn how to use one in a flak deployment use myself. I've seen them used successfully, but I've yet to really get the hang of them. 

If you are thinking flak a good build is instigator with an escort of 4 fighters. You want to always have a nav token and dial ( or ozzey) because you are looking to plant instigator within range of the Intel ship, follow in with the fighters to each engage any bombers around instigator ( staying away from fighters if possible). You then lock down the whole ball for to fire on next round. 

 

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Just now, AgentoftheEmpire said:

Don't write them off so quickly. They require serious practice.

I'm speaking from experience from my last game, where I was rebel with mc30s and my friend brought a MSU with 3 raiders. The 3 raiders died with only 1 taking a shot in the entire game.

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Just now, Sybreed said:

I'm speaking from experience from my last game, where I was rebel with mc30s and my friend brought a MSU with 3 raiders. The 3 raiders died with only 1 taking a shot in the entire game.

What speed did he have them coming in at? 

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5 minutes ago, AgentoftheEmpire said:

See that's the problem right there. Your opponent charged them into battle too quickly.

Can confirm. Raiders in general shouldn't be going speed 3+ in most cases unless they're pouncing on exposed prey or making a getaway. Charging them at speed 3+ against an MC30 is just giving your opponent takeout delivery.

I plug this article constantly, but the most popular article on Cannot Get Your Ship Out is (thus far) my how-to on Raiders. I've gotten lots of positive feedback on it. It might help. Raiders are frequently misused and they're a bit tricky to get the hang of.

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I remember the very first "raiders are terrible" thread.

I'll say the same thing now as I said back then, Raiders unless your using an MSU tactic, last/first. Want to be sitting in the rear flanks of your bigger ships, people will be desperate to get out of an ISD front arc, and into its weaker side/rear arcs, this is where Raiders excel, in this position they start either out of range, or at long range, and then your opponent goes first, to get his ship out of that ISD front arc, and now its at PB range to your unactivated Raider.

Raiders are superb area denial ships, they are not sit in front of your opponents best arcs ships. Used properly the 4dice/3dice (with Con fire) can cause an unholy amount of damage, as they are very very easy to double arc with. And at speed 2 they are II II perfect for close in maneuvering around your larger ships.

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1 hour ago, Sybreed said:

I'm speaking from experience from my last game, where I was rebel with mc30s and my friend brought a MSU with 3 raiders. The 3 raiders died with only 1 taking a shot in the entire game.

They actual quite like player two, raiders are defiantly ambush predators, waiting for a ship to come to them,  you only ever push the speed up if it's to jump into a weak arc or to run after you have made the hit. Always play them with a spare nav token so they can jump up to escape speed when needed.

Ive had these boys do serous damage in Ozzey DMSU lists or supporting the flank of an ISD. I also had them die in droves when I first started using them and thought if I could throw in 2-3 in one go they could overwhelm a ship ( it does not work) 

Edited by Jondavies72

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7 hours ago, Jondavies72 said:

They actual quite like player two, raiders are defiantly ambush predators, waiting for a ship to come to them,  you only ever push the speed up if it's to jump into a weak arc or to run after you have made the hit. Always play them with a spare nav token so they can jump up to escape speed when needed.

Ive had these boys do serous damage in Ozzey DMSU lists or supporting the flank of an ISD. I also had them die in droves when I first started using them and thought if I could throw in 2-3 in one go they could overwhelm a ship ( it does not work) 

I really like to bid high on any list in which I run Raiders, so I can go first. Last/First activation advantage on a squishy ship that has high burst damage is pretty essential for a number of scenarios:

  • Double tapping a dangerous enemy ship for a combined 4 black/3 blue with a CF dial and jetting the hell out of there at speed 3/4
  • Flying into an activated squadron ball the last turn and opening up with Flechettes/Kallus immediately

Both of those are not possible when going second.

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30 minutes ago, chr335 said:

I have don't bother to much as they need Apts or flechette torpedoes to work and I don't have enough apts.

I can attest that even without APTs these guys can deliver. (I ran at least 1 raider with no upgrades in all my regional and worlds lists and they never disappointed me).

And with wave6 APT's are going to fade and be replaced by external racks.

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3 hours ago, chr335 said:

I have don't bother to much as they need Apts or flechette torpedoes to work and I don't have enough apts.

They are quire effective with just Ordnance Experts. Flechettes are nice to haves, APTs are definitely not needed.

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I am testing out a pair of them in a list. One as a pocket carrier/squadron deactivator, the other as a squad support/flotilla killer with Screed as the Admiral:

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
-  Agent Kallus  ( 3  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Expanded Hangar Bay  ( 5  points) 
-  Flechette Torpedoes  ( 3  points) 
= 59 total ship cost

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
-  Sensor Team  ( 5  points) 
-  Assault Proton Torpedoes  ( 5  points) 
= 54 total ship cost

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