Power creep.....

[DJRAZZ 56]

So a different type post. SOR was definitely a power creep and an improvement. Many Awakenings cards are simply not being used in the current meta. Is the same gonna happen with the next expansion. Or will certain older cards become more powerful with new cards that exploit them. I understand that Characters may become more and less popular in each set but what about staple and common type cards. Many Awakenings staples were replaced by better ones in SOR.

A little power creep is cool and keeps the game exciting but total replacement of what is good from one set to the next can get out of hand and cause rotations to occur. Most importantly it makes collectors feel like there collections are worthless.

CCG's usually follow a path. What will Destiny's path be?

Thoughts.....

 

Edited May 10, 2017 by DJRAZZ

[Stu35 723]

Power creep is inevitable and necessary. 

If you don't give people a reason to upgrade their decks then they wont buy new cards.

 

[Hennessy 40]

You do not need power creep you need variety. If you offer people variety of what you can build with new cards, than they will buy it.

But the game itself is on rising curve of power and it will continue. Anyway you make the deck more powerful just by adding the options for deckbuilding as first set had not sufficient card pool for some decks like hero red.

[Alphastealer 42]

Hero red is still lacking. Snap is situational at best, commando is ok, mothma is just an alt ackbar and baze is a less complex Poe.

[Bensonders 11]

Where do you see that powercreep? I would love to hear the examples (just to see how short that list actually is).

It still seems to me that Awakenings, SoR and EaW were designed together (the first couple of editions of a new TCG should always be designed as one big set).

And I agree with others here, that Red (esp. Hero) is still lacking, compared to the others.

 

And yes, of course you replaced some old cards for new ones. But this isn't necessary power creep. 

When you played mono color with just awakenings you were forced to include some rather weak cards just to get to the 30 card deck size.

Giving the player options now so they don't have to include every garbage card anymore is not power creep.

 

But still. Give me a list which cards exactly are power creep.

[blackholexan 115]

Yellow Guns (especially on the Villain side) still missing.

I agree that they were designed as a single set but they did a good work making decks with card from a single set playable

[ZeroDMG 21]

Here we go... Can we NOT with the friggin "power creep" garbage?  It's only the second set for Kenobi's sake...

[WonderWAAAGH 7,153]

Uh, there is no power creep yet. Nothing from Awakenings was flat out obsoleted by a super version of the same card. 

[KalEl814 1,510]

Yeah, I don't think SoR meets the definition of power creep at all.

[RJM 129]

1 hour ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Uh, there is no power creep yet. Nothing from Awakenings was flat out obsoleted by a super version of the same card. 

 

7 minutes ago, KalEl814 said:

Yeah, I don't think SoR meets the definition of power creep at all.

 

What these guys said.

[Kyle Ren 6,817]

I'm worried about power creep, definitely. Sometimes I think FFG thinks like @Stu35, that you need power creep to sell the new products. That's what's up in X-Wing. 

However, this is a CCG, whereas X-Wing is more of an LCG-type model. So really, they only need a couple really good cards per wave (I'm looking at you, Force Speed!), and people will continue to buy the packs just for a chance to get those few really good cards. 

So here's hoping FFG won't mire this game in power creep! They really don't need to! I'll buy it anyway...

[Red Castle 3,875]

If I take a look at the latest build I made using SoR, here's how the distribution looks like:

Krennic/Unkar: 18 Awakening, 12 SoR

Vader/Guard: 16 Awakening, 14 SoR

Jabba/Unkar: 14 Awakening, 16 SoR

Luminara/Rey: 17 Awakening, 13 Sor

 

So it seems balanced to me, there's still a lot of very good cards in Awakening that I'll continue to use.

[Counthermula 7]

I agree with what has already been said.  I don't think power creep is a thing (yet).  Rather, the bigger card pool just means we don't have to use sub-optimal cards in our decks anymore. 

If anything, I think Destiny is doing a good job of having a lot of cards in each set be useful.  As I browse decklists online I see a LOT of cards from both sets being used, which is a great thing. 

Final thought.  I would like to see yellow get a bit more variety, as a few cards are just auto includes in every single yellow deck (Fast Hands, He Doesn't Like You, Electroshock).  Red and blue seem to have a bit more variety and usefulness in their commons and uncommons, but that is a very small gripe at this point with only 2 sets out. 

[Starbane 301]

5 hours ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Uh, there is no power creep yet. Nothing from Awakenings was flat out obsoleted by a super version of the same card. 

I agree. 

Imperial Discipline is very similar to Promotion and supplants it for villains, but Promotion is still the only red option of its type for heroes.

[Abyss 376]

I think there's a definite increase of the power of cards in certain areas - most obviously 'speed' effects. And there's some cards that have very powerful abilities, but they do seem in line if you compare them to similar cards in Awakenings (E.g. FN is pretty crazy, but then you look at Rey who also has an amazing ability that is probably undercosted on a cheaper character).

I'd say that I am somewhat concerned about the direction of the game, but I'd agree that it's not straight up power creep.

[gokubb 234]

When you look at the speed of the game and the types of decks that are top tier, it's apparent that the designers didn't really understand what exactly was powerful in this first block of sets. 

Take a look at the 2-cost upgrades. These, theoretically, can be played the turn they are drawn, before opponent can remove resources and they get activated with a character. Now, compare that with a support card. Those cost usually twice the upgrade and require an action themselves to activate, which slows down your turn and provides opponent more opportunity for control. Yet, the die for a 4 cost support is usually just marginally better than that of a two-cost upgrade. It should be more than twice as effective as the upgrade. The power curve of resource plus opportunity cost just wasn't thought out well in this game. 

Characters are another example. You start with them and get their die/ability from the get-go. There's no way the character die should be consistently more powerful than an upgrade or support that has to be drawn into, played with resources, and then rolled out.

I like the game system, but there are fundamental design flaws in the power/cost curve. I think power creep is inevitable, because, as I see it, the card designers don't have an accurate pulse on what makes one card better than another.

[Stu35 723]

Well said gokubb. I think the designers thought supports were going to be way bigger than they are.

The 0 or 1 cost 'when you roll x do y' supports seem to be a move in the right direction for them, but has anyone found a place for AT-STs yet?

[WonderWAAAGH 7,153]

Yeah, my trade binder. 

[Amanal 2,557]

Jabba/Unkur may do OK for having one.

[soviet prince 105]

1 hour ago, gokubb said:

When you look at the speed of the game and the types of decks that are top tier, it's apparent that the designers didn't really understand what exactly was powerful in this first block of sets. 

Take a look at the 2-cost upgrades. These, theoretically, can be played the turn they are drawn, before opponent can remove resources and they get activated with a character. Now, compare that with a support card. Those cost usually twice the upgrade and require an action themselves to activate, which slows down your turn and provides opponent more opportunity for control. Yet, the die for a 4 cost support is usually just marginally better than that of a two-cost upgrade. It should be more than twice as effective as the upgrade. The power curve of resource plus opportunity cost just wasn't thought out well in this game. 

Characters are another example. You start with them and get their die/ability from the get-go. There's no way the character die should be consistently more powerful than an upgrade or support that has to be drawn into, played with resources, and then rolled out.

I like the game system, but there are fundamental design flaws in the power/cost curve. I think power creep is inevitable, because, as I see it, the card designers don't have an accurate pulse on what makes one card better than another.

I think it's fine to have characters with powerful effects, there what you design the deck around the weapons just support them

[DJRAZZ 56]

I guess the power creep has affected some decks more than others. I am not talking about new all-stars like Force Speed, Vibroknife, Fast Hands, and so forth. I am thinking about some of the money cards that are fading away. I find it kinda hurts to stick expensive rare and legendary cards into my binder because they are just not cutting it at this time. Glad to see that the Awakenings Characters are still very relevant, maybe even more so than SOR.

[WonderWAAAGH 7,153]

You keep using that word...

[Starbane 301]

26 minutes ago, DJRAZZ said:

I guess the power creep has affected some decks more than others. I am not talking about new all-stars like Force Speed, Vibroknife, Fast Hands, and so forth. I am thinking about some of the money cards that are fading away. I find it kinda hurts to stick expensive rare and legendary cards into my binder because they are just not cutting it at this time. Glad to see that the Awakenings Characters are still very relevant, maybe even more so than SOR.

What money cards from Awakening do think are fading away?

Edited May 11, 2017 by Starbane

[Kyle Ren 6,817]

5 minutes ago, Starbane said:

What money Awakening cards do think are fading away?

Just checked... my LGS changed the price on Darth Vader. He used to cost $40... and now he costs $60! They also boosted Force Choke to $45. Luke, Han, and One With the Force got boosted to $40. So, yeah, @Starbane is definitely right! Don't worry about the collectablility/resale value of your Awakenings stuff. Supply+demand and all that... scarcity makes prices soar, even for lame cards. Who would pay more for an alt art Rey than a Darth Vader? Collectors...

[Docile 8]

1 hour ago, DJRAZZ said:

I guess the power creep has affected some decks more than others. I am not talking about new all-stars like Force Speed, Vibroknife, Fast Hands, and so forth. I am thinking about some of the money cards that are fading away. I find it kinda hurts to stick expensive rare and legendary cards into my binder because they are just not cutting it at this time. Glad to see that the Awakenings Characters are still very relevant, maybe even more so than SOR.

What cards are you talking about? The money cards are still valuable/playable as far as I can see. It's the chaff that's getting replaced...