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banjobenito

Concerns about RW sculpts?

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RWM is also still pretty cheap. 25USD for 8 models and their tray/cards? 40k will only give you 1 model at that price. All the unit packs are around 50USD or higher for anywhere between 4-10 models depending on their size or "elite" status (some things are stupid expensive simply because the units rules are "better" than others)

The cartoony nature lets them produce cheaper models because cartoon design by default masks a lot of the realistic issues painting, drawing, or modeling comes across. I prefer a neat artstyle rather than super duper realistic features, it makes it feel more unique. Theres a reason i dont like most "realistic" video games, they all look the same to me. My room mate was playing a LOTR game (shadows over mordor?) and until he said something i thought it was some vague Assassin's Creed game for awhile.

You will probably spend easily 1/4th if not less on RWM than you do 40k. I have Orks and Tau for 40k, and BOTH armies are around 3000USD worth of stuff...and i know many many people that dwarf my collection.

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10 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

I prefer a neat artstyle rather than super duper realistic features, it makes it feel more unique. Theres a reason i dont like most "realistic" video games, they all look the same to me. My room mate was playing a LOTR game (shadows over mordor?) and until he said something i thought it was some vague Assassin's Creed game for awhile.

This is why stuff like Team Fortress 2 and World of Warcraft still look good after all these years compared to the gritty 'realistic' games of a similar time.

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17 minutes ago, TallTonyB said:

In the end I think they decided to lean more towards inclusiveness and getting non-wargamers into the hobby with more simple sculpts and more focus on the rule set, and although it's not my goldilocks of the miniatures world, I think they did ok.

I think this is key for the success of Runewars. It doesn't matter how badass your sculpts are if no one is playing your game. Kings of War, Age of Sigmar, and other games are fighting over the pool of existing Fantasy Wargamers. Runewars seems like it's trying to get its share of that pool while bringing in new blood that prioritize game play over the hobby aspects of the game. Hopefully, they've done their homework and have enough that appeals to the hobbyist and enough that the appeals to the gamer to hit a critical mass and be successful.

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When I look at the concept art and compare it to the actual models, I can't help but think that it's a materials issue, even though I know nothing about miniatures materials. But to me, the sculpts they've settled on evoke the feel of the concept art well enough for me.

Also, I can't help but think of BattleLore. When you compare the minis in the expansions to those in the base game, you see quite some disparity in the level of detail - not only in the sculpt but in the figures themselves. As this line continues forward, I think we're going to see the level of detail increase. However, I think we're still going to see the same aesthetic.

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"RWM is also still pretty cheap. 25USD for 8 models and their tray/cards? 40k will only give you 1 model at that price."

 

I disagree. Here's some Daqan I've been painting up that will drop at £25 when they are out:

unnamed_zpszv6n6oz1.jpeg

And here's a Thousand Son from a squad of ten chaos marines, from 40K, I bought for yep, you guessed, £25:

20170507_093900_zpsdgsfkzty.jpg

My point is that the models are much higher quality. I know they're over-elaborated for some people's taste, but that's not a necessity. The sculpts are night and day in terms of clarity, detail, imagination.

To reiterate my point here friends - I agree that RW is a superb game. I love it. I'm happy that the models are beginner friendly and easy to paint - that's great. But I disagree when people suggest that they are up to top standard. They're not really, are they? They could be simple and elegant. Clean and sharp lined, yet still cartoony in aesthetic. I just think it's a shame that such an amazing game has a relatively limited table presence compared to the competition. (For the record, I take good rules over good minis any day of the week! :D)

Edited by banjobenito

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Oh i by no means am claiming RWM is top notch modelling. They have issues, such as mold lines in annoying places or the flimsy nature of the material, but you get what you pay for.

One of the larger issues with 40k and new players is the cost. The models draw their attention, but the price tag scares them away. Though i admit some of their newer stuff look really silly/dumb to me (adeptus mechanicus....).
GW uses their own blend of plastic for models, which is why it has such an insane durability/detail level compared to other minis. FFG uses PVC :P

I guess the bottom line is what can you afford AND enjoy in a miniature game? I can afford 40k, but most of my friends cannot. I gifted a Leviathan Dreadnought to my friend a couple years ago and he about flipped out when he saw the price of it lol. My friends can afford Warzone, Xwing, Armada, RWM, and various boardgames though and we still enjoy those games (well not so much Warzone anymore lol)

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18 minutes ago, banjobenito said:

 But I disagree when people suggest that they are up to top standard. They're not really, are they?

I don't think that anyone has been arguing that the Runewars minis are hitting top standards but rather that the Runewars minis are hitting the standard that they need to hit for what Runewars is. 

It looks like you are paying 4 times as much for that Thousand Son than you are for the Cavalry (per model). I see a lot of little fiddly detail from 5 inches away but how does that level of detail hold up at 5 feet? I don't know that that model really looks much different to me than what a more detailed hero unit Like Ardus does (of course I don't know **** about models to there's probably a lot of quality stuff don't notice).    

Edited by WWHSD

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I must point that buying warhammer in pounds is not cheap, but outside the UK it's quite more expensive in general.

I used to play WFB and a little of 40k but I felt betrayed and disappointed very often.

GW's sales policies are obnxious. They make terribly unbalanced units, they scale the power book after book (not every single new release, but tendencies are undeniable). They do cool miniatures but they often renew miniatures only after a decade, and you have to put up with awful miniatures while they release tonnes of unnecesary monsters/charriots/characteres. And those strategies for selling... "you can use troops of ally armies, buy them. But next year that will not be allowed anymore" or "buy the new nespresso: AKA 125€ imperial knight"

I really want games for the overall product, not for specific aspects.

Games with good miniatures but bad policies or bad rules eventually die.

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14 minutes ago, banjobenito said:

Here's some Daqan I've been painting up that will drop at £25 when they are out:

unnamed_zpszv6n6oz1.jpeg

And here's a Thousand Son from a squad of ten chaos marines, from 40K, I bought for yep, you guessed, £25:

20170507_093900_zpsdgsfkzty.jpg

My point is that the models are much higher quality. I know they're over-elaborated for some people's taste, but that's not a necessity. The sculpts are night and day in terms of clarity, detail, imagination.

I must admit that this is a very good illustration. The choice of soft plastic means that the minis are indeed a lot less crisp.

Disregarding personal taste and detail amount, the hard plastic had a lot neater, sharper and crisp detail and is a pity we don't get this, at least for the main pieces such as heroes

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1 minute ago, druchii7 said:

"buy the new nespresso: AKA 125€ imperial knight"

THAT pissed me off about recent 40k. Gargantuans and Superheavies should have never been accessible in standard play (yes i have a Stormsurge for my tau, but i refuse to use it sub2k points)
They loved to release these new shinnies that needed their own rulebook and were insanely strong and cool looking, but IMPERIAL ONLY (at best, chaos marines can use it outside of the Imperial forces). Wheres the equivalently insane crap for Orks, Tau, Tyranids, Dark Eldar, or hell even Daemons? Tau are the only one that got something close to it (Eldar already had theirs and it got a freakin buff) and its nowhere near as busted as that thing.

Then of course, they release "This kills knights!" stuff.

Fortunately GW is having a bit of a reform, as 8th edition actually looks interesting to me so far, but time will tell if its worth going back.

/rantoff

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13 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

I don't think that anyone has been arguing that the Runewars minis are hitting top standards but rather that the Runewars minis are hitting the standard that they need to hit for what Runewars is. 

It looks like you are paying 4 times as much for that Thousand Son than you are for the Cavalry (per model). I see a lot of little fiddly detail from 5 inches away but how does that level of detail hold up at 5 feet? I don't know that that model really looks much different to me than what a more detailed hero unit Like Ardus does (of course I don't know **** about models to there's probably a lot of quality stuff don't notice).    

Hi WWHSD, no, it's £25 for ten minis of that quality, vs £25 for 4 Daqan cavalry. You're right about the fiddly deatil, but if you're painting a mini, you're in 'macro' mode for a long time, staring at the little fellas, so the detail definitely hits you. The combined effect on the tabletop is really noticeable. But like I said before, even if that guy is a bit baroque for your tastes, there's nothing stopping ffg from delivering a mini of that quality with simpler and more elegant lines, for the same price, as far as I can see.

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Don't forget the extra materials! 1 dial, 1 unit card, 5 upgrade cards. It shouldn't be ignored, since it makes the game a lot more comfortable to play: you need no armylists messing around on the table: you may need to take a look while you deploy, but after that makes the game cheaper and more comfortable.

In WFB/W40K you must compulsorily use the miniatures on your list, often to ridiculous extents.

Buy your oathsworn, assamble them and they are ready to all tournaments. Buy your chaos warriors, give them a great weapon and if you want to use them with halberd... but another box!!! They even prohibited to use dreadnoughts with magnets (at least for some time, don't know ATM)!!!!!!!!!!!!

The price of the miniature alone is not the same as the price of the game.

And however I think they unfairly place the upgrade cards inside the box, forcing you to buy miniatures that you might not use often.

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Thats why the bulk of my 40k is magnetized. Only units that either have no options i can swap out or have options i literally wont ever use are fully glued.
Except my Ta'unar, that thing is magnetized to hell and back out of anticipation for more guns it can take lol. Even in doing this i still have several repeats with different builds because some models you just cant magnetize with strong enough magnets. I.e. Ork Boyz, i have probably ~100 of Shootaboyz and around ~140 of SluggaChoppa boyz lol....oh they were 30USD for 10.....gotta love ebay salvages though!

But, that being said, i hate messing with magnets. Nothing more horrible than gluing in the magnets flush with a hole you either drilled yourself or was already there then realizing theyre flipped.... Sometimes you can salvage it, other times (especially on the small parts like shoulders for Marines) you cant do a **** thing about it easily.
I just did that with my Daqan Spearmen too. Somehow i flipped my stack of magnets at some point, so 3 of my 4 trays are reversed polarity. And since the bottom of the base is completely flush, and its super thin, i cant drill that out so i had to punch out and flip the base-side. THAT is going to irritate me down the line i just know it....

Edited by Vineheart01

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1 hour ago, banjobenito said:

"RWM is also still pretty cheap. 25USD for 8 models and their tray/cards? 40k will only give you 1 model at that price."

 

I disagree. Here's some Daqan I've been painting up that will drop at £25 when they are out:

unnamed_zpszv6n6oz1.jpeg

And here's a Thousand Son from a squad of ten chaos marines, from 40K, I bought for yep, you guessed, £25:

20170507_093900_zpsdgsfkzty.jpg

My point is that the models are much higher quality. I know they're over-elaborated for some people's taste, but that's not a necessity. The sculpts are night and day in terms of clarity, detail, imagination.

You are kinda feeling my pain now because a 10man squad of thousand sons at MSRP for the states is DOUBLE the cost of a unit of cavalry, nice paint job though I really like your color scheme on the cav, lets me see what my poor skellies looked like when they had skin XD.  But yes there is more detail on the GW lines, and the space marines especially when not kitted out so much with all the extra garbage look nice, but that system does not give me the warm fuzzies when I think about playing it, it more so gives me the bash my headies into a tablies. But all of that is opinion...

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1 hour ago, druchii7 said:

"buy the new nespresso:

Woah, woah, woah, leave the nespresso out of this that's actually a **** good cup of coffee...even Clooney thinks so, I mean he may be a bit elitist on what you have to do to buy a cup and it is weird that you would get tailored suit that probably cost way more than some espresso from a coffee shop, but I mean that is different...I mean where was I going with this? Keurig sucks...

Edited by jek

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40 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:

I think it has a lot to do with RuneWars being very much pushed toward people who are new to miniatures games. Because, let's be real: Lord Hawthorne probably comes in 3 or 4 push-together pieces, while Lord Aquilor looks like this out of the box:

 

LA1.jpg

LA2.jpg

I M G! That is very fearful!  If I put it together, it would not look like the picture hahahah

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This game doesn't need minis that compete with GW hard plastic or Kingdom Death or Infinity or whatever you want to paste in here as an example.  We have plenty of those games to paint. I appreciate this as a halfway point between something like X-wing and Warhammer, or even Imperial Assault and Warhammer.  You can achieve striking results on your rank and file with tabletop standard very, very quickly. And you can take a little extra time for the monsters and heroes.  I like it.

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(Certainly doesn't hurt that I absolutely despise the new Games Workshop Age of Sigmar figures.  They're bloated and overwrought, and fragile on the table top.  A few look OK, but I think most look terrible, even at 3 feet)

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8 hours ago, banjobenito said:

Interesting series of posts. I'm learning a lot.

I guess I'm confused as to why anyone who thinks Daqan has a horrible Barbie-like color scheme would like this gaudy scheme here:

99120218020_LordAquillar02.jpg

Are Warhammer models now being designed by Versace?

It's the reason I never switched from Warhammer Fantasy to Age of Sigmar.

To me, the simple nature of RWM models are a relief.

 

Edited by Fritz66
Screwed up quote thingy. My words, not banjobenito's.

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