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Elavion

A player who blatantly cheated on a world championship stream gets away with a WARNING. This is a very, very bad precedence. Edit: TO decision changed, game loss added.

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Edit: We have been heard- the TO decided to change the penality to a warning+game loss. Not perfect, but acceptable. However, this was done without giving any compensation to the cheated player, so they still screwed up.

 

I belive the cheater should get kicked out of the tournament instantly, or at the very least get a loss for that game- the way this was handled telegraphs such behaviour as "acceptable unless you get caught twice".

 

We should do everything in our power to get rid of the cheaters in our community. FFG is moving down a very slippery slope.

 

P.S. Do not link evidence in this thread lest it be removed as a lynch attempt. It's easy enough to find and the cheating is blatantly obvious- the offender picked up his dial while his opponent was distracted, changed it to a different maneuver, laid it down faceup and immediately started executing the new maneuver.

Edited by Elavion

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Its a scandal!
Nothing less.

Cheating at the most prestigeous event of the year. Caught on camera. Effect of it might mean tht his opponetn wont make the cut to day 2. How can the judge justify that as nothing but a warning?
The fact that PARKER GUIDRY is a cheating piece of **** is at least now documented, but the judge should be ashamed of his spineless ruling.

Edited by Holmelund

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Yeah he get away with that. I know it is only game of plastic ships but I am fuming at this. Poor cheated opponent. He was literally robbed twice from victory - first time by his opponent, 2nd time by judges.

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6 minutes ago, apoapsis said:

He's been given a round 4 game loss as well.

if that led to handing out a bye to someone at 3-0 that's spreading salt on a wound.

I really hope they awarded his opponent a game win for the round he actually cheated rather than that

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39 minutes ago, Elavion said:

Edit: We have been heard- the TO decided to change the penality to a warning+game loss. Not perfect, but acceptable.

Yes....ruling in a corrective direction, better.

 

FFG? Not acceptable; they obviously gave in after the backlash. 

Cowards!

 

Edited by clanofwolves

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There was already a post about this. FFG Admin commented on it (surprised it wasn't locked after the comment)

FFG Admin has responded, yes the play forfeit the match. Surprised that it was deemed not malicious but funny because of the growing popularity of FFG events video coverage like this is more common and still it surprises me that people think they can get away from it. The first (and still only) person on the Blacklist for FFG events was from Android: Netrunner for intentionally overdrawing. People need to realize that there is plenty room for the 2nd or 3rd spot, and even more.

 

I will say I am surprised it took this long for it to be caught. With X-wing being easier to get into 40k (and face it cheaters are known for being lazy), I'd expect all of those trolls from GW to flood over here. I is easier fro a cheater to move from 40k to X-wing than it is to move from X-wing to 40k. One of the downsides to success I guess. It brings all sorts of attention, some you would rather do without.

Edited by Marinealver

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Well looking at the video and breaking it down though you have to do it with a cool and level head and take a look at what the intentions were. So after X-wings moved the HWK-dial was adjusted to avoid collision into the back of the jumpmasters. So a couple of my own analysis.

  • Was this action deliberate and intentional?

Yes, and you cannot argue otherwise. This was no mistake or accident. This was an intentional adjusting dials in the activation phase, a clear violation of the rules. It was deliberate as in the subtlety of it was to prevent the dial change from being noticed however it failed.

  • Was this malicious and caused the result of the match win?

No, not really. Sure it was deliberate and clearly intentional to circumvent the stages as outlined in the rules. But it was more to fix a novice mistake on the part of the player instead of subverting the opponent to a win. There was a single action that should have been skipped. Now it is unlikely that one single action had an effect on the game, and probably didn't add a single hit or evade result. Now what would constitute a malicious intent? How about adjusting a dial so an opponent's ship is now inside firing arc whereas it wouldn't have been with the maneuver selecting in the planning phase otherwise. That example is rather specific but it and something similar that affects your opponent's ships would be an offense resulting in an immediate blacklist. 

What we have here is a player clearly not at the skill or maturity to compete at a level such as worlds. His inability to avoid colliding with his own ships clearly demonstrates an amateurish inability to comprehend the play area and space. The attempt to "fix" this otherwise move that exposes the player's inexperience doesn't necessarily show the person as an awful person, but rather as a player who clearly wasn't ready.

Weather he meant ill or not, the fact is this player is now known for cheating at worlds. So my advice for him is of one of two options.

  1. Practice at a more competitive level. No casual take backs, changing direction declared of action and no picking up dials once set down even to check a maneuver. Build your memory and area perspective even at friendly matches. Play with people who would hold you to these standards.
  2. Sell your collection, and move on to other things. If you can't handle pressure at a tournament level then why are you in a tournament in the first place? It is just a game, but if you ruin it for others you risk people coming at you in more than just through the game.

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Watched that video and can't say I'd really trust playing anyone who I knew would put out such a thing.  You might say the video is supposed to be a joke but there is plenty in there to make me think someone is ALWAYS thinking "how can I screw my opponent over and not get caught doing it?"

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21 minutes ago, StevenO said:

Watched that video and can't say I'd really trust playing anyone who I knew would put out such a thing.  You might say the video is supposed to be a joke but there is plenty in there to make me think someone is ALWAYS thinking "how can I screw my opponent over and not get caught doing it?"

Yeah true, that guy is going to be under a lot of scrutiny for the next couple of years. The sad thing now is that this will be a topic of discussion in the post worlds after action articles/blogs/podcasts along with the routine who won, the state of the meta, and how the meta would be changed in the upcoming wave.

So the end results of worlds will be having a thread of negativity in it.

Edited by Marinealver

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Cheats need to be dealt with clearly and comprehensively. In Australia we had a fool cheat at 40K tournaments (loaded dice, he did it to 'mates' at his local club too), then he turns up months later and cheats the Golden Demon painting comp (entered a model done by a commission painter).

Was moving the dial just a brain fart? Maybe. Does it deserve to be trodden on hard? Yes.

 

RoV

Edited by Rat of Vengence

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2 minutes ago, Rat of Vengence said:

Cheats need to be dealt with clearly and comprehensively. In Australia we had a fool cheat at 40K tournaments (loaded dice, he did it to 'mates' at his local club too), then he turns up months later and cheats the Golden Demon painting comp (entered a model done by a commission painter).

Was it just a brain fart? Maybe. Does it deserve to be trodden on hard? Yes.

 

RoV

As I said, X-wing is an easier game than 40k to get into and now that X-wing has surpassed 40k in popularity, all the 40K trolls are migrating here. Sucks, yes but that is the downside of popularity, you get all the attention including some you would rather not have.

Edited by Marinealver

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So I'm at worlds and I asked a few FFG TOs about the guy who cheated. They gave him a ONE ROUND loss because "they didn't see it as malicious". It however, was premeditated and malicious. It was not an accident, it was deliberate, and really crappy. Not to mention that he wasn't disqualified, and managed to win out 5-2 and is returning tomorrow.

 

I am very disappointed in FFG regarding this move, and asked several FFG TOs about their decision. Here's what they said 

The first guy I asked, when it was first discovered, said in a very condescending voice: "we've looked at the video, more times than you, and on bigger screens than you. We will probably have an answer for you in 20 min"

They didn't 

Next TO I asked "what was the decision, who made that decision, and how did you come to that decision"

"He was given a one round loss. I made the decision. I felt that it wasn't malicious"

the last TO I asked was the worst at justifying it.

"so I heard the guy who pulled that thing is coming back tomorrow."

"what thing?"

"the cheating thing"

"he didn't cheat"

"pretty sure he did, I mean I saw the video"

"we don't believe he cheated we believe an error was made and we believe it to be non malicious"

"you'd sound like a politician"

(I forget what he says next but its more rhetoric, defending the cheater)

"I disagree, and I'm diapointed that you made that decision"

this was more of a policatal move for FFG. I've heard people state that because it was caught on a guest stream that wasn't FFG's and not sanctioned by asmodee, or something...

I disagree with how FFG handled it, and their justification. Mainly because now I can literally pick up my oppents dial, look at it and put it down. Then when a Judge comes what can they do, when it's their word against mine?"

welcome to the world of sanctioned cheating. 

Edited by punkheadphones

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Let's be bigger than what we can get away with and let's let internet shaming be enough and move on. 

Is this the thing you want to go to mat on guys? Come on. Forgive, forget, we've had our pound of flesh. A little Kenobi zen might do us some good (that's the calm old guy, not the cut off limbs leave you for dead guy). 

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2 minutes ago, Lobokai said:

Let's be bigger than what we can get away with and let's let internet shaming be enough and move on. 

Is this the thing you want to go to mat on guys? Come on. Forgive, forget, we've had our pound of flesh. A little Kenobi zen might do us some good (that's the calm old guy, not the cut off limbs leave you for dead guy). 

No, this thing is bigger than the intended cheating it self! This is also determine our future in such cases. We need to demand now what we need in the future also! His punishment will be the first case in world championships and it should be used as an example... 

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I for one think thatFFG made the best decision they could. Personally I would disqualify from the tournament, but also think a ban longer than a couple months is too harsh for a miniatures game. Fly loose and forgive someone who made a dumb decision. Punish them, but be fair and offer a chance for him to redeem himself. I for one would prefer a game that is forgiving and fair

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19 minutes ago, Lobokai said:

Let's be bigger than what we can get away with and let's let internet shaming be enough and move on. 

Is this the thing you want to go to mat on guys? Come on. Forgive, forget, we've had our pound of flesh. A little Kenobi zen might do us some good (that's the calm old guy, not the cut off limbs leave you for dead guy). 

Internet shaming is probably the worst thing because it doesn't address the issue. However the only people who can address the issue is FFG, and to simply give in to the demands of the mob is not the best solution. However it is hard to defend FFG's verdict, especially with things like mindlink when taken into consideration.

Now sure that video is not enough for FFG TO's to give the win to the other player as we did not see the results of the "free action" taken by Parker. But still they should have been able to review the video to determined what effect it had. I wan't to give them the benefit of the doubt as one focus token could often have no effect, but it was pointed out that it wasn't just one focus but 3.

Sure, we should be sending him to sleep with da fishies as if he was a cheater in the mobster chicago. But this is a huge issue that is going to need both FFG and community action to resolve.

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A few things the OP got WRONG.

1. He only got one loss for cheating and it was his next game. So the guy he cheated got screwed over and had a loss

2. The cheater made it to Day 2 with a 5-2 record

3. The person who got cheated missed day 2 by one victory, which if the TOs and FFG had not dropped the ball he would have had.

 

FFG screwed this up royally. There is all the evidence you need in that video to see that he did this willfully and with intent. Ban him from all FFG events.

Edited by Nastrado

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