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Live cheating at worlds?

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4 minutes ago, vyrago said:

B)  He *did* select 2 bank right but his loose dial somehow moved to 3 bank left and he simply moved it back to his original choice.  THIS IS STILL CHEATING.  if you have a loose dial, you need to tell someone.  

If that was the case he should say "hey man my dial is loose as hell, you can see 3 bank makes no sense it was 2 bank, may I?" 

But its still sketchy as hell as 2 and 3 banks are a while away on the dial...

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Hi all

 

It's okay to cheat. You won't get kicked out. 

 

You want to stop cheating? Send them home. That sends the message. 

 

Or, just accept that people will cheat, and it's okay, cause...reasons. 

 

Simply saddened by this, and some of the apologists on this board. 

 

FFG (and apologists), FFS. 

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2 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

Blah, blah, blah....maybe, but they blew it at the point of attack. Even if it's messy, they should correct the issue: he loses that cheat game, cheated gets 100-0 victory. Period.

Probably....or why do the (mostly) turn-about?

We only have rumors that that even occurred at all. You should google the old study about superstitious pigeons.

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As opposed to getting in on the lynch mob mentality? How many times has a story been posted that the internet mobs went rabid for, until the other side of the story came out. 

We are not there. The judges are. Even if the game is being streamed, we on the Internet do not have the full information. There is a **** good reason why judge discretion is allowed. Despite everyone here demanding a one size fits all mentality, that isn't real life. A lot of the major punishments should be left to the judges discretion, as they would have a better idea of how severe the infraction was. I mean, dear god, just look at the "game loss for looking at opponent's dial" thread. I do not want those types of people in control of the game, because you get a game loss for not being perfect at the game. 

And I just don't get the one instance and you are out of the game. Yes, it is kind of sad that someone would cheat in this game. But you know what is also sad? The mentality that we need to figuratively ostracize them. Unless this is a constant trend, why does someone need to be kicked out of the game for one infraction. I'm not saying to ignore or forget, but we don't need to have their head. 

I mean, jesus h crackers, we had someone call for violence in this thread. It is just a goddamn game. 

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7 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

We only have rumors that that even occurred at all. You should google the old study about superstitious pigeons.

 

Really, now...

 

Edited by Scopes

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1 hour ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

Call me crazy, but perhaps the guy shouldn't have cheated in the first place?

 

Also, how does one cheat without malice?  I'm pretty sure the two go hand in hand.

Well looking at the video and breaking it down though you have to do it with a cool and level head and take a look at what the intentions were. So after X-wings moved the HWK-dial was adjusted to avoid collision into the back of the jumpmasters. So a couple of my own analysis.

  • Was this action deliberate and intentional?

Yes, and you cannot argue otherwise. This was no mistake or accident. This was an intentional adjusting dials in the activation phase, a clear violation of the rules. It was deliberate as in the subtlety of it was to prevent the dial change from being noticed however it failed.

  • Was this malicious and caused the result of the match win?

No, not really. Sure it was deliberate and clearly intentional to circumvent the stages as outlined in the rules. But it was more to fix a novice mistake on the part of the player instead of subverting the opponent to a win. There was a single action that should have been skipped. Now it is unlikely that one single action had an effect on the game, and probably didn't add a single hit or evade result. Now what would constitute a malicious intent? How about adjusting a dial so an opponent's ship is now inside firing arc whereas it wouldn't have been with the maneuver selecting in the planning phase otherwise. That example is rather specific but it and something similar that affects your opponent's ships would be an offense resulting in an immediate blacklist. 

What we have here is a player clearly not at the skill or maturity to compete at a level such as worlds. His inability to avoid colliding with his own ships clearly demonstrates an amateurish inability to comprehend the play area and space. The attempt to "fix" this otherwise move that exposes the player's inexperience doesn't necessarily show the person as an awful person, but rather as a player who clearly wasn't ready.

Weather he meant ill or not, the fact is this player is now known for cheating at worlds. So my advice for him is of one of two options.

  1. Practice at a more competitive level. No casual take backs, changing direction declared of action and no picking up dials once set down even to check a maneuver. Build your memory and area perspective even at friendly matches. Play with people who would hold you to these standards.
  2. Sell your collection, and move on to other things. If you can't handle pressure at a tournament level then why are you in a tournament in the first place? It is just a game, but if you ruin it for others you risk people coming at you in more than just through the game.

 

Edited by Marinealver

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4 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

As opposed to getting in on the lynch mob mentality? How many times has a story been posted that the internet mobs went rabid for, until the other side of the story came out. 

 

What is this logic?, I don't even....

Luckily we have stream, cheating is blatant - using your logic no one is allowed to judge anything ever or draw logical conclusions.
Using your logic I can't say earth is round because I never experienced watching it from space firsthand.

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Just now, Embir82 said:

What is this logic?, I don't even....

Luckily we have stream, cheating is blatant - using your logic no one is allowed to judge anything ever or draw logical conclusions.
Using your logic I can't say earth is round because I never experienced watching it from space firsthand.

Notice. try to inform those in charge, sure. 

Calling for them to be banned from competitive play is a bit beyond the observer's scope, though. Armchair judging is a lot easier than judging.

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Just now, Sithborg said:

Notice. try to inform those in charge, sure. 

Calling for them to be banned from competitive play is a bit beyond the observer's scope, though. Armchair judging is a lot easier than judging.

(Completely off Topic)

At my LGS, I argued that as Armada TO, I should get an Armchair.  So I can Armchair Judge while I Judge... :D

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Just now, Drasnighta said:

(Completely off Topic)

At my LGS, I argued that as Armada TO, I should get an Armchair.  So I can Armchair Judge while I Judge... :D

I mean, a Captain's Chair is only fair...

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Just now, Sithborg said:

Notice. try to inform those in charge, sure. 

Calling for them to be banned from competitive play is a bit beyond the observer's scope, though. Armchair judging is a lot easier than judging.

Why? Because you said so?
As it happens no law prohibits expressing opinions on the forums or demands for just actions - in one's view.

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FFG, you know that there was only one solution and that should have been a DQ. Instead you tried to find a middle ground and have made it impossible to fix. 

You have set an awful precedent for all TOs at ALL events moving forward. You have condoned blatant cheating and disregard for your rules. 

 

parker, if you read this. You need to come out and apologize. I'm not saying this because I want it, I'm saying this for your sake. You have a lot of people very upset at you and projecting their dislike for ffgs handling of the situation onto you as well. Own this mistake and ask for forgiveness. 

 

Also, I'm going to disregard his result in the rankings for those who care.

Edited by Timathius

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How can this blatant cheating not result in a instant DQ and a Ban from further events? Can anybody explain FFGs reasoning?

Why was this considering not malicious?

Edited by Taloncor

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33 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Well looking at the video and breaking it down though you have to do it with a cool and level head and take a look at what the intentions were. So after X-wings moved the HWK-dial was adjusted to avoid collision into the back of the jumpmasters. So a couple of my own analysis.

  • Was this action deliberate and intentional?

Yes, and you cannot argue otherwise. This was no mistake or accident. This was an intentional adjusting dials in the activation phase, a clear violation of the rules. It was deliberate as in the subtlety of it was to prevent the dial change from being noticed however it failed.

  • Was this malicious and caused the result of the match win?

No, not really. Sure it was deliberate and clearly intentional to circumvent the stages as outlined in the rules. But it was more to fix a novice mistake on the part of the player instead of subverting the opponent to a win. There was a single action that should have been skipped. Now it is unlikely that one single action had an effect on the game, and probably didn't add a single hit or evade result. Now what would constitute a malicious intent? How about adjusting a dial so an opponent's ship is now inside firing arc whereas it wouldn't have been with the maneuver selecting in the planning phase otherwise. That example is rather specific but it and something similar that affects your opponent's ships would be an offense resulting in an immediate blacklist. 

What we have here is a player clearly not at the skill or maturity to compete at a level such as worlds. His inability to avoid colliding with his own ships clearly demonstrates an amateurish inability to comprehend the play area and space. The attempt to "fix" this otherwise move that exposes the player's inexperience doesn't necessarily show the person as an awful person, but rather as a player who clearly wasn't ready.

Weather he meant ill or not, the fact is this player is now known for cheating at worlds. So my advice for him is of one of two options.

  1. Practice at a more competitive level. No casual take backs, changing direction declared of action and no picking up dials once set down even to check a maneuver. Build your memory and area perspective even at friendly matches. Play with people who would hold you to these standards.
  2. Sell your collection, and move on to other things. If you can't handle pressure at a tournament level then why are you in a tournament in the first place? It is just a game, but if you ruin it for others you risk people coming at you in more than just through the game.

 

I disagree that it didn't have much effect. It wasn't just one action, it was 3 focus tokens because of mindlink. In addition to that, the original move would have left his whole stressed. So changing his dialxwent from a tokenless stressed list to unstressed and all focused. Odds are good that at least one of those focus tokens was used (though I haven't watched to see). In addition to that, the 2bank right left him in a much better position relative to where his opponent went. 

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28 minutes ago, Nastrado said:

I'm sure everyone will be happy to know that he is still playing and is 4-1 and most likely make the cut for day 2

Is it possible foe someone without a straight win record to still make the cut?

Also if by chance he does win worlds (I doubt it) how do you think he will be treated by the podcasts (or will he even dare to show his face)? Any interview is going to bring that up at least once.

Edited by Marinealver

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1 hour ago, Taloncor said:

He should not be allowed to continue playing. FFGs decision is really ridiculous.

I disagree.
Letting him continue in the tournament is a even worst punishment.
Imagine that, from that moment on, everyone on that room was talking about it. Every player he faced during the event, after that moment, knew he cheated and was caught.
Everywhere he goes, on that event, there will be people commenting no the cheat.
I say, keep him in play. Let him face the fully extent of the humiliation of everyone around him knowing that he cheated and was caught on camera doing it.

 

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Just now, Nastrado said:

Lol I guess you also believe OJ was innocent 

I was saying "allegedly" in context of his results (wasn't confirmed, saw it on twitch chat). 
He is cheater for sure.

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