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Live cheating at worlds?

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5 minutes ago, TGO said:

If all of the anti-intentional draw people can get FFG to go back on that then I am sure all of the people who want to see this guy banned can get FFG to escalate the punishment. 

I am not really interested in escalating the punishment. Everyone knows the guy is a cheater. That is going to haunt him for a long time, probably even longer than he deserves.

But I am interested in how FFG will make amends to the guy he cheated, and the girl who finished 65th yesterday and missed the cut by one person.

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1 minute ago, stonestokes said:

I am not really interested in escalating the punishment. Everyone knows the guy is a cheater. That is going to haunt him for a long time, probably even longer than he deserves.

But I am interested in how FFG will make amends to the guy he cheated, and the girl who finished 65th yesterday and missed the cut by one person.

I'm less worried about the person in65th. If the cheater hadn't made the cut mike may well have in his place

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Hello everyone!

There has been a lot of discussion about this incident, and we thank you all for your passion and enthusiasm. 

Issues like this are never easy, nor are they as simple as they appear from afar. In this particular case, our judges and TO’s investigated the matter and came to a conclusion. After speaking with both players involved, they came to a determination and issued a penalty. I understand that many members of this community might disagree with their assessment, and that’s fine. This is all very subjective.

Situations like this take time to resolve. When something like this occurs, we are not able to rush to quick judgment. That’s a luxury the Internet has that we do not. We have an obligation to do our due diligence, collect all the facts, and then issue a verdict.

Unfortunately, the tournament does not stop moving forward while we’re investigating. Therefore, after the decision was made, the only choice was to issue a penalty to Player 1 on a future match. After the meal break, this was then communicated to Player 2 in the middle of his next pairing. Regretfully, this interrupted Player 2’s match in a negative way. The reality is, there are hundreds of players here playing dozens of matches, and in that chaos, our lines of communication were not efficient enough. As a result, Player 2's experience yesterday was not what we strive for.

We have been, and continue to be, in contact with both players. Please know that our first priority is to run a fair tournament, and we work very hard at that. Our second priority is that everyone has a positive experience at Worlds. We stand by our decision regarding Player 1. As for Player 2, we are working with him to make sure his experience at Worlds is not hampered by this.

However, as a matter of policy, those discussions between FFG and our players are private. We do not disclose our discussions with individual players to the community at large. Rest assured that we are taking steps to find the most equitable solution we can for the impact this had on Player 2's experience.

Thank you for your interest and discussion on this matter. From our end, we consider the issue closed and we look forward to seeing the X-Wing World Championships tonight.

Please remember that we have a zero tolerance policy for online harassment, doxxing, and bullying of any of our community members. 

Thank you again. Enjoy the final day of Worlds!

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6 minutes ago, FFGAaron said:

Hello everyone!

There has been a lot of discussion about this incident, and we thank you all for your passion and enthusiasm. 

Issues like this are never easy, nor are they as simple as they appear from afar. In this particular case, our judges and TO’s investigated the matter and came to a conclusion. After speaking with both players involved, they came to a determination and issued a penalty. I understand that many members of this community might disagree with their assessment, and that’s fine. This is all very subjective.

Situations like this take time to resolve. When something like this occurs, we are not able to rush to quick judgment. That’s a luxury the Internet has that we do not. We have an obligation to do our due diligence, collect all the facts, and then issue a verdict.

Unfortunately, the tournament does not stop moving forward while we’re investigating. Therefore, after the decision was made, the only choice was to issue a penalty to Player 1 on a future match. After the meal break, this was then communicated to Player 2 in the middle of his next pairing. Regretfully, this interrupted Player 2’s match in a negative way. The reality is, there are hundreds of players here playing dozens of matches, and in that chaos, our lines of communication were not efficient enough. As a result, Player 2's experience yesterday was not what we strive for.

We have been, and continue to be, in contact with both players. Please know that our first priority is to run a fair tournament, and we work very hard at that. Our second priority is that everyone has a positive experience at Worlds. We stand by our decision regarding Player 1. As for Player 2, we are working with him to make sure his experience at Worlds is not hampered by this.

However, as a matter of policy, those discussions between FFG and our players are private. We do not disclose our discussions with individual players to the community at large. Rest assured that we are taking steps to find the most equitable solution we can for the impact this had on Player 2's experience.

Thank you for your interest and discussion on this matter. From our end, we consider the issue closed and we look forward to seeing the X-Wing World Championships tonight.

Please remember that we have a zero tolerance policy for online harassment, doxxing, and bullying of any of our community members. 

Thank you again. Enjoy the final day of Worlds!

Good stuff!  So long ask the wronged party can be made happy then the whole thing is settled, to my mind.

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17 minutes ago, FFGAaron said:

Hello everyone!

There has been a lot of discussion about this incident, and we thank you all for your passion and enthusiasm. 

Issues like this are never easy, nor are they as simple as they appear from afar. In this particular case, our judges and TO’s investigated the matter and came to a conclusion. After speaking with both players involved, they came to a determination and issued a penalty. I understand that many members of this community might disagree with their assessment, and that’s fine. This is all very subjective.

Situations like this take time to resolve. When something like this occurs, we are not able to rush to quick judgment. That’s a luxury the Internet has that we do not. We have an obligation to do our due diligence, collect all the facts, and then issue a verdict.

Unfortunately, the tournament does not stop moving forward while we’re investigating. Therefore, after the decision was made, the only choice was to issue a penalty to Player 1 on a future match. After the meal break, this was then communicated to Player 2 in the middle of his next pairing. Regretfully, this interrupted Player 2’s match in a negative way. The reality is, there are hundreds of players here playing dozens of matches, and in that chaos, our lines of communication were not efficient enough. As a result, Player 2's experience yesterday was not what we strive for.

We have been, and continue to be, in contact with both players. Please know that our first priority is to run a fair tournament, and we work very hard at that. Our second priority is that everyone has a positive experience at Worlds. We stand by our decision regarding Player 1. As for Player 2, we are working with him to make sure his experience at Worlds is not hampered by this.

However, as a matter of policy, those discussions between FFG and our players are private. We do not disclose our discussions with individual players to the community at large. Rest assured that we are taking steps to find the most equitable solution we can for the impact this had on Player 2's experience.

Thank you for your interest and discussion on this matter. From our end, we consider the issue closed and we look forward to seeing the X-Wing World Championships tonight.

Please remember that we have a zero tolerance policy for online harassment, doxxing, and bullying of any of our community members. 

Thank you again. Enjoy the final day of Worlds!

Thank you for staying in contact with the community. We appreciate it.

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you consider this closed? you have policies to keep people from being nasty to each other? I call BS on both counts, I left this forum for nearly a yer for belittlement and in general rude abusive chatter..... as to your final decision..... that is your call, but many folks are pissed off.... You want Michael to have a good experience, yet his experience was ruined by a cheater and a half-arsed response to very blatant rules abuse.... FFG alright, working as intended

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If we get one thing out of this, it should be official guidelines on proper punishment for different infractions so that TOs can make a fair and quick determination. FFG should be setting an example for TOs at lower level tournaments. 

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While the FFG response on this is understandable, and I am glad to see they are doing what they can to make Michaels experience better (literally, give him every prize that's available for top 16 to him at this point, other than the trophy of course), but also use this as a lesson to adjust the tournament rules to make these punishments as harsh as possible, making it a deterrent.  Honestly, giving the player a ban from any sanctioned FFG OP event for two years would be good enough, even if it's after this event.  I'd be happy with this.  He will likely be villified by his local community already, which also works and is justified.

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38 minutes ago, FFGAaron said:

Hello everyone!

There has been a lot of discussion about this incident, and we thank you all for your passion and enthusiasm. 

Issues like this are never easy, nor are they as simple as they appear from afar. In this particular case, our judges and TO’s investigated the matter and came to a conclusion. After speaking with both players involved, they came to a determination and issued a penalty. I understand that many members of this community might disagree with their assessment, and that’s fine. This is all very subjective.

Situations like this take time to resolve. When something like this occurs, we are not able to rush to quick judgment. That’s a luxury the Internet has that we do not. We have an obligation to do our due diligence, collect all the facts, and then issue a verdict.

Unfortunately, the tournament does not stop moving forward while we’re investigating. Therefore, after the decision was made, the only choice was to issue a penalty to Player 1 on a future match. After the meal break, this was then communicated to Player 2 in the middle of his next pairing. Regretfully, this interrupted Player 2’s match in a negative way. The reality is, there are hundreds of players here playing dozens of matches, and in that chaos, our lines of communication were not efficient enough. As a result, Player 2's experience yesterday was not what we strive for.

We have been, and continue to be, in contact with both players. Please know that our first priority is to run a fair tournament, and we work very hard at that. Our second priority is that everyone has a positive experience at Worlds. We stand by our decision regarding Player 1. As for Player 2, we are working with him to make sure his experience at Worlds is not hampered by this.

However, as a matter of policy, those discussions between FFG and our players are private. We do not disclose our discussions with individual players to the community at large. Rest assured that we are taking steps to find the most equitable solution we can for the impact this had on Player 2's experience.

Thank you for your interest and discussion on this matter. From our end, we consider the issue closed and we look forward to seeing the X-Wing World Championships tonight.

Please remember that we have a zero tolerance policy for online harassment, doxxing, and bullying of any of our community members. 

Thank you again. Enjoy the final day of Worlds!

 

I want to know, in detail, what the Player 2 "grieved party" received in compensation.  Because, quite honestly, you really dropped the ball FFG.

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45 minutes ago, FFGAaron said:

Hello everyone!

There has been a lot of discussion about this incident, and we thank you all for your passion and enthusiasm. 

Issues like this are never easy, nor are they as simple as they appear from afar. In this particular case, our judges and TO’s investigated the matter and came to a conclusion. After speaking with both players involved, they came to a determination and issued a penalty. I understand that many members of this community might disagree with their assessment, and that’s fine. This is all very subjective.

Situations like this take time to resolve. When something like this occurs, we are not able to rush to quick judgment. That’s a luxury the Internet has that we do not. We have an obligation to do our due diligence, collect all the facts, and then issue a verdict.

Unfortunately, the tournament does not stop moving forward while we’re investigating. Therefore, after the decision was made, the only choice was to issue a penalty to Player 1 on a future match. After the meal break, this was then communicated to Player 2 in the middle of his next pairing. Regretfully, this interrupted Player 2’s match in a negative way. The reality is, there are hundreds of players here playing dozens of matches, and in that chaos, our lines of communication were not efficient enough. As a result, Player 2's experience yesterday was not what we strive for.

We have been, and continue to be, in contact with both players. Please know that our first priority is to run a fair tournament, and we work very hard at that. Our second priority is that everyone has a positive experience at Worlds. We stand by our decision regarding Player 1. As for Player 2, we are working with him to make sure his experience at Worlds is not hampered by this.

However, as a matter of policy, those discussions between FFG and our players are private. We do not disclose our discussions with individual players to the community at large. Rest assured that we are taking steps to find the most equitable solution we can for the impact this had on Player 2's experience.

Thank you for your interest and discussion on this matter. From our end, we consider the issue closed and we look forward to seeing the X-Wing World Championships tonight.

Please remember that we have a zero tolerance policy for online harassment, doxxing, and bullying of any of our community members. 

Thank you again. Enjoy the final day of Worlds!

Why is it so difficult for FFG to come to correct conclusions when other games of its scale or greater have no such issue? This is an open and shut case in Magic. You even had video coverage. How could you not pause their match, review the coverage, issue an actually good ruling, and, if it hadn't resulted in disqualification, issue a time extension? There's nothing really complicated here. It's just talking out of the side of your mouth. 

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8 minutes ago, emmjay said:

 

I want to know, in detail, what the Player 2 "grieved party" received in compensation.  Because, quite honestly, you really dropped the ball FFG.

 

48 minutes ago, FFGAaron said:

However, as a matter of policy, those discussions between FFG and our players are private. We do not disclose our discussions with individual players to the community at large. Rest assured that we are taking steps to find the most equitable solution we can for the impact this had on Player 2's experience.

 Enough said. 

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1 minute ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Not really any of your business.

How players are compensated isn't your business to know. Being confident in FFG's ability to run fair tournaments is. This is the second high-level event FFG has dropped the ball on. 

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Just to get this right in my head

 

So player 1 cheated, won the game against player 2 in match 3

Player 1 got caught and was given a 100-0 loss in that match, Player 2 still had the loss recorded for match 3

Player 1 also got a loss penalty for match 4, his opponent, player 3 got a 100-0 win because of it

Player 2 then had his match 4 interrupted in the middle of it which  "interrupted Player 2’s match in a negative way", which probably led to his loosing the game

 

That right?

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55 minutes ago, FFGAaron said:

Hello everyone!

There has been a lot of discussion about this incident, and we thank you all for your passion and enthusiasm. 

Issues like this are never easy, nor are they as simple as they appear from afar. In this particular case, our judges and TO’s investigated the matter and came to a conclusion. After speaking with both players involved, they came to a determination and issued a penalty. I understand that many members of this community might disagree with their assessment, and that’s fine. This is all very subjective.

Situations like this take time to resolve. When something like this occurs, we are not able to rush to quick judgment. That’s a luxury the Internet has that we do not. We have an obligation to do our due diligence, collect all the facts, and then issue a verdict.

Unfortunately, the tournament does not stop moving forward while we’re investigating. Therefore, after the decision was made, the only choice was to issue a penalty to Player 1 on a future match. After the meal break, this was then communicated to Player 2 in the middle of his next pairing. Regretfully, this interrupted Player 2’s match in a negative way. The reality is, there are hundreds of players here playing dozens of matches, and in that chaos, our lines of communication were not efficient enough. As a result, Player 2's experience yesterday was not what we strive for.

We have been, and continue to be, in contact with both players. Please know that our first priority is to run a fair tournament, and we work very hard at that. Our second priority is that everyone has a positive experience at Worlds. We stand by our decision regarding Player 1. As for Player 2, we are working with him to make sure his experience at Worlds is not hampered by this.

However, as a matter of policy, those discussions between FFG and our players are private. We do not disclose our discussions with individual players to the community at large. Rest assured that we are taking steps to find the most equitable solution we can for the impact this had on Player 2's experience.

Thank you for your interest and discussion on this matter. From our end, we consider the issue closed and we look forward to seeing the X-Wing World Championships tonight.

Please remember that we have a zero tolerance policy for online harassment, doxxing, and bullying of any of our community members. 

Thank you again. Enjoy the final day of Worlds!

Thanks. I think I can ask you or other admin to close the thread here ;)

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I 100% appreciate how difficult it is to make these decisions (re consequences) on the ground in real time. That said, I feel like there's a lesson to be taken from United Airlines on this one. Fight the war not the battle, FFG. Compensate player 2 quickly and generously and make it clear you don't tolerate cheating in messaging and tournament policy. 

That said, the guy cheated at X Wing. I get many of us have invested a significant amount of money and time into this fantastic game, but...it's still a game. I'd argue intentionally running a stoplight or texting while driving has far greater potential lethal consequences and I'd bet most of us have done that at some point. No one is calling for our heads or posting our photos online. Chill, people.

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42 minutes ago, KnightHammer said:

Just to get this right in my head

 

So player 1 cheated, won the game against player 2 in match 3

Player 1 got caught and was given a 100-0 loss in that match, Player 2 still had the loss recorded for match 3

Player 1 also got a loss penalty for match 4, his opponent, player 3 got a 100-0 win because of it

Player 2 then had his match 4 interrupted in the middle of it which  "interrupted Player 2’s match in a negative way", which probably led to his loosing the game

 

That right?

Player 1s win in round three stood. He only got a loss for round 4 as a result

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1 hour ago, emmjay said:

 

I want to know, in detail, what the Player 2 "grieved party" received in compensation.  Because, quite honestly, you really dropped the ball FFG.

That's definitely not our business to know. But we definitely should let FFG know that we hope that he was compensated to his satisfaction.

If Mike is willing to come on and let us know if he's happy with how he has been compensated, if at all, that would be good. We're concerned is all. Nobody deserves to be treated like you did Mike.

If you can't say exactly what you got, that's fine. We just want to know that you got something and you are happy with it.

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While taking steps to ensure the 'victim' is compensated is a big positive, I for one am disappointed to see 'case closed' on the cheater.

 

The way it looks from my end is: somebody deliberately cheated, said something nice to FFG in private and git away with just a slap on the wrist. It seems way too little IMO,not to mention inconsistent with previous bans they have handed in Germany.

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4 hours ago, CRCL said:

Haha! Cheating while live on the twitch stream? The guy's either an idiot, or he has balls like grapefruits; possibly both.

Seems like FFG dropped the ball on this one. He should have been immediately disqualified.

What happens if this guy wins worlds?

 

3 hours ago, Richard_Thomas_ said:

Has he actually turned up today to play? Balls of steel if so!

Not exactly, it is a big tournament and contrary to "popular belief" most high level players don't frequent these forums regularly. 

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