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Live cheating at worlds?

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1 minute ago, ScummyRebel said:

Oh, I agree he wasn't punished enough.

What I am getting at is you cannot enter any other claims of him cheating as reason to punish him beyond his single infraction. Disqualified, fine. Perma-banned? No. 

I didn't say he should be perma-banned.  I said he should be disqualified and ejected from Worlds as of the moment his infraction took place, and that game treated as an immediate concession.  After that, determine the appropriate top cut and continue - with that player no longer participating in X-Wing or any other games he was registered for.

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3 hours ago, Rexler Brath said:

The above is justifying his illegal move as a brain disorder.  Do you have any sheds of evidence to backup your garbage?  Nope.  

I really do not understand the white knights here.  Its clear he cheated and its clear to almost everyone his intention.  You white knights make humanity look bad.  Being ablw to justify this act of cheating.  I have zero interest in ever playing a person who would defend this act.  Please do us all a favor and exit the x-wing community.  Law is probably a better hobby for you.

As you wish. Hopefully I will find a less poisonous and more welcoming community in another game.

Edited by Tam Palso

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1 hour ago, Cailais said:

It's not that simple though, its entirely plausible that the player 'cheated' without being fully cognisant of what he was doing at that specific point in time.

If you watch the video carefully you can see he picks up the dial, and looks at it - he makes no attempt to alter the dial at that point. Essentially he is reverting to the 'planning phase', out of sync with the actual game state.

At this point he realises he has made a mistake, possibly at a sub conscious level and his brain wouldn't be able to accept that error (its a common enough reaction).  Parker is therefore thinking "there is no way I would have selected that move!". He then justifies to himself moving the dial (recalling that he still 'thinks' he is in the planning phase from his subconscious perspective).

What's interesting here, is that Parker isn't cheating to "win" per se, he's in an internal monologue attempting to rectify an error in his world view of what 'should' be happening. In essence at the subconscious level his brain (probably having rehearsed the same move many times before) denies what it actually happening and attempts to restore the situation to what should be 'correctly' happening.

If you were to interrupt Parker at that precise moment , pointing out he was cheating, he'd be flummoxed by the suggestion because he doesn't 'see' the big picture of the game &, the competition -just that specific moment in time.

Yes it is cheating: but we shouldn't necessarily lambast Parker in the assumption that he was doing so in order to 'win' and that his moral compass is off. If the above holds true (or could be true) then Parkers dial modification may not have been done through pre determined malicious intent (i.e before the game: "I'm going to alter my dials to win").

Of course you might doubt this view, but its worth noting that our brains belief systems are stupendously strong, and cause us to make catastrophic errors in judgement (normally when under pressure).  Pilots for example have literally flown aircraft into the sides of mountains because of it. It's one of the reasons we make simple mistakes in game play, it just so happens that in this instance Parker, probably under significant stress and pressure (Worlds, LiveStream etc) followed that decision tree to a critical failure point.  I wouldn't be entirely surprised if he can barely recollect doing so.

While I can see where you are coming from, I still ascribe a certain amount of maliciousness due to the fact that he went through with it. Maybe he did subconsciously adjust the dial. But he should remember what was originally there, the thing that caused him that stress and panic. That makes his completion of the altered maneuver a conscious choice. 

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I agree that "other people have said Parker Guidary cheats" is not information that can be proven and should be ignored.  However, the camera clearly catches him changing his dial in one of the biggest X-Wing tournaments, ever.  There is visual proof.  Guidary should have been punished appropriately for cheating for that game.  

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He picked up his dial without informing his opponent. That's the first rule broken. Then he changes his dial to a different maneuver with a massively different outcome in his favor. That's supposed to be an action that is not tolerated. 

It's cheating. His mental state is irrelevant; if he did it subconsciously, the punishment should be no different. He still broke two rules. He should be disqualified. 

Is there any further update on the person who was cheated? That's the worst part of this story. 

Edited by Arttemis

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7 hours ago, IG88E said:

No my intention was I don't want this thread to be closed by admins due to such memes or spamming. This thread should stay open so pmease think about it. It is clear who has cheated, it is not neccessary to post giant memes with his name ;)

Ah, well that's fair enough. Maybe a BIT of an overreaction on my part. :)

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28 minutes ago, Arttemis said:

He picked up his dial without informing his opponent. That's the first rule broken. Then he changes his dial to a different maneuver with a massively different outcome in his favor. That's supposed to be an action that is not tolerated. 

It's cheating. His mental state is irrelevant; if he did it subconsciously, the punishment should be no different. He still broke two rules. He should be disqualified. 

He didn't do it subconsciously.  He's clearly attempting to shield the dial and change his maneuver surreptitiously.  That's proof of state of mind (intent) in a court of law, never mind a gaming organization.

There's no proof of premeditation, but if this were a homicide, with the same level of proof, he'd be convicted.  And, again, that's in a court of law, where the standard of proof is very, very tough to meet.  (And while there's no proof of premeditation, that's not the only way to show malice -- the other way is to show that the actor had no regard whatsoever for the consequences to others of his behavior.)

(And before anybody say anything stupid: no, I'm not comparing this cheater to homicide.  I'm simply using homicide to illustrate how state of mind bears on, and is determined in, breaking laws or rules, because everybody has seen Law & Order.)

FFG was notified in time to get this one right.  They chose not to take it seriously until the internet exploded when they screwed up the first ruling ... and then they still borked it spectacularly.  The blowback on them is going to smart for a while.

(BTW, one of the representatives of the Bay Area scene, Audrey, ended up 65th, barely out of the cut.  She's got a pretty good grievance, too.)

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The thing that makes me very sad about this (besides, of course, cheating being a disgrace), is that this incident is a ugly reflection of what is driving game design for XWM.  Despite the "fly casual" mantra of many players, they are many others who have stated on these boards that the game is all about winning.  Ships need to be balanced so you can win.  Cards need to be fixed so you can win.  People netlist so they can win.  The meta exists because that's how you win.

And FFG caters to this.  Waves are designed not for adding to the playability of the Star Wars mythos, but rather to adjust the parameters of the meta when one plays to win.  The ultimate victor gets to leave his or her footprint in the game's design--reinforcing that this game is for winners, not for players.

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1 hour ago, BobbyM said:

 

I agree that "other people have said Parker Guidary cheats" is not information that can be proven and should be ignored.

 

Nope. If people directly saw him cheating that's evidence. The weight or persuasiveness of that evidence may be up for debate but eye-witness accounts is evidence. 

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The problem with cheating is the breach of the social contract. That's what's egregious, and what I personally hate about cheating and cheaters. 

If you are cheating, what's the d@mn point of playing a game? Its pathetic.

This dude should get a straight up ban from formal events for a year minimum. 

Personally, I would never play any game with him, let alone XWM, fortunately I won't likely ever be in a situation where that may happen. 

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2 hours ago, Shockwave said:

Other than the fact that people have posted knowing him from his local and that he's a known cheat. 

Gonna need a source for this

1 hour ago, Rexler Brath said:

 Please do us all a favor and exit the x-wing community. 

@ this entire ***** thread

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3 hours ago, Cailais said:

It's not that simple though, its entirely plausible that the player 'cheated' without being fully cognisant of what he was doing at that specific point in time.

If you watch the video carefully you can see he picks up the dial, and looks at it - he makes no attempt to alter the dial at that point. Essentially he is reverting to the 'planning phase', out of sync with the actual game state.

At this point he realises he has made a mistake, possibly at a sub conscious level and his brain wouldn't be able to accept that error (its a common enough reaction).  Parker is therefore thinking "there is no way I would have selected that move!". He then justifies to himself moving the dial (recalling that he still 'thinks' he is in the planning phase from his subconscious perspective).

What's interesting here, is that Parker isn't cheating to "win" per se, he's in an internal monologue attempting to rectify an error in his world view of what 'should' be happening. In essence at the subconscious level his brain (probably having rehearsed the same move many times before) denies what it actually happening and attempts to restore the situation to what should be 'correctly' happening.

If you were to interrupt Parker at that precise moment , pointing out he was cheating, he'd be flummoxed by the suggestion because he doesn't 'see' the big picture of the game &, the competition -just that specific moment in time.

Yes it is cheating: but we shouldn't necessarily lambast Parker in the assumption that he was doing so in order to 'win' and that his moral compass is off. If the above holds true (or could be true) then Parkers dial modification may not have been done through pre determined malicious intent (i.e before the game: "I'm going to alter my dials to win").

Of course you might doubt this view, but its worth noting that our brains belief systems are stupendously strong, and cause us to make catastrophic errors in judgement (normally when under pressure).  Pilots for example have literally flown aircraft into the sides of mountains because of it. It's one of the reasons we make simple mistakes in game play, it just so happens that in this instance Parker, probably under significant stress and pressure (Worlds, LiveStream etc) followed that decision tree to a critical failure point.  I wouldn't be entirely surprised if he can barely recollect doing so.

This is exactly why intent doesn't matter. You can't know what goes on in someone's  head and you know what? It doesn't matter. Maybe you're right and it wasn't malicious (I don't believe that for a second). The fact of the matter is that he gained unfair advantage and should have been disqualified. All you armchair psychologists are trying to blur a line that doesn't even matter. 

There have been threads pointing out how exploitable this game is right now because of poor enforcement and when it's right in front of your face and undeniable, you still make excuses for it. Unbelievable. 

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Haha! Cheating while live on the twitch stream? The guy's either an idiot, or he has balls like grapefruits; possibly both.

Seems like FFG dropped the ball on this one. He should have been immediately disqualified.

What happens if this guy wins worlds?

Edited by CRCL

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Don't you think it's about time to put an end to this and the other threads harping on THE EVENT?

If I was a new player or someone thinking about becoming a new player, I'd have second thoughts after reading some of these ranrs.

He changed a dial during activation which is against the rules, AKA "cheating". Did he do it intentionally or maliciously? I don't know because I wasn't in his head when it happened and nobody else was either. Only he knows the why.

Most here don't agree with FFGs handling of the situation. Get over it because there's nothing you can do about. 

Posting his picture and name and making the upgrade card was uncalled for and set a new low for behavior here.

 

 

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Why is this so difficult? There is no real arguemwnt that he didn't cheat.  In any other situation cheating results in a disqualification. Disqualify Parker from this tournement.Give Mike a 100 point win and go on with the tournament.

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Watch the clip again folks, he picks the dial up, changes it when it is behind the list info, checking to see how far he needs to turn it, puts it back, then with his thumb, and on the game mat no less, he actually turned the dial, the same number of flips he used when it was behind his list info, this was intended and malicious. At an event of this magnitude, and given the fact that there is indisputable video evidence, dude should be banned from further FFG tournaments. His entire score should have been wiped from the records and new pairings done immediately.... This is not being part of  Lynch Mob, this is giving a rats arse about the rules during  tournament, which he obviously does not...

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26 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Don't you think it's about time to put an end to this and the other threads harping on THE EVENT?

If I was a new player or someone thinking about becoming a new player, I'd have second thoughts after reading some of these ranrs.

He changed a dial during activation which is against the rules, AKA "cheating". Did he do it intentionally or maliciously? I don't know because I wasn't in his head when it happened and nobody else was either. Only he knows the why.

Most here don't agree with FFGs handling of the situation. Get over it because there's nothing you can do about. 

Posting his picture and name and making the upgrade card was uncalled for and set a new low for behavior here.

 

 

 
 
 
 
 

Hi Stoneface

Pont 1: No, because board games should be a fun experience, and cheating should never, ever be tolerated.  I want to be concerned with my maneuvers, not worry if my opponent is cheating.

Point 2: This is the highest level event for X-Wing and one of the most publicized board game events, everyone needs to play by the rules.

Point 3: We don't care why.  He was caught on camera that he did.  So if I take your miniatures at the end of a game and claim I got "confused" but did not return them to you then it is OK?  The point here is that there was an action: a maneuver was changed on purpose for advantage but there was no reaction.

Point 4: Yes, there is something we can do about it.  I have already personally made one meme (not the upgrade card one, that was genius ) and I will continue to shame this Parker Guidary dude for ruining at least one person's tournament experience.  Understand, I am doing this not because I want to, but because FFG dropped the ball and said it was OK to cheat at world level gaming events. I say NO it is NOT!

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If all of the anti-intentional draw people can get FFG to go back on that then I am sure all of the people who want to see this guy banned can get FFG to escalate the punishment. 

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5 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

I recently have a lot of issues with loose dials. Last tourney I had at least 5 cases when the revealed dial did not match what I set it too, though I always notice when this happens as you feel the movement on the fingers. Sounds odd in this case even if the dial was lose. 
Though I can imagine that I am not the only one with that issue, a few other players on the same tourney had the same issues. Might be time to order some high quality third-party dials. 

If you're having loose dial problems, go to Lowe's or Home Depot and pick up some 5/16th nylon washers and use them as spacers between the dials. They will make the dials nice and tight and resistant to unintended movement.

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