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Live cheating at worlds?

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6 minutes ago, droz69 said:

Best thing that could happen is they toss out the cheater and let Mike take his place in the top cut.  That's pretty much the only real option I see at this point.  

With this cheating issue being to top issue at worlds (unfortunately) I can't help it but it reminds me of this scene from Casino.

Now first of all, this is not a suggestion. Sure the cheater could have had a stiffer penalty but what is done is done, and in the end it is just a game.

And of course Warning: language, graphic violence. Do not watch if you are offended (or not allowed) for such things.

 

Good thing that guy didn't try it at a Casino where money is on the line, or else he might be sleeping wid da fishies

Sleeping-with-the-fishes.jpg

 

Edited by Marinealver

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Just now, VanderLegion said:

Tossing the cheater out doesn't bother me, and giving him a loss against mike should have been a given. Giving mike a place in the top cut is less so. If they'd handled it right from the start, there'd be no need for it. He gets his win, and goes on and makes the cut or not based on performance after

The fact that he only went 3-4 (from what I remember reading) means even if he got the win, he'd still not be eligible for the cut, though depending on mov he might have made day 2. On the other hand, having it not handled right has to have affected his mental state and may have resulted in worse play than he would have had otherwise. I wouldn't be opposed to dropping the cheater from day 2 and giving mike his place there, but he doesn't automatically deserve to make the cut (and still wouldn't even if they gave him day 2 with having 3'losses)

While on face value I would agree, go back in time and give Mike the win, and suddenly his entire battlefield changes and he goes up against a different list, different opponent each round, and may have felt vindicated and had a clearer mind on his next games, instead of feeling let down and slighted.  You change every aspect of this tournament for Mike after this, and you never know, he may have ended up going 5 and 1.  

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I hope the FFG will correct this problem fast! Incase they won't this will be such a huge sh**t storm from the entire community! They should not only kick him out from the tournament but not let him in to the next year's event either. These are god sake world championship tournaments!! So now anyone can just cheat when ever one time and get out with official "warning"...

 FFG you have disappointed me and community big time and how you have dissolved this cheating have chew off you credibility as tournament organizer! I have always been dreaming of attending to it, but now I'm not sure if I do wanna spend my money after this, not because there might be cheaters, but how this issue has been solved and with my decision I want to protest against FFGs decision and pay my remorse to the opponent.

 

PS. I was one of the 500+ viewers who saw it happen live! :ph34r:

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26 minutes ago, droz69 said:

While on face value I would agree, go back in time and give Mike the win, and suddenly his entire battlefield changes and he goes up against a different list, different opponent each round, and may have felt vindicated and had a clearer mind on his next games, instead of feeling let down and slighted.  You change every aspect of this tournament for Mike after this, and you never know, he may have ended up going 5 and 1.  

He might have, but we can't go back in time and change that. I pointed out the same thing myself that he may have played wise as a result, and I'd be fine giving him day 2 as a result, but not an automatic top cut. 

The flip side of the different matchups is with the win he'd be on the "harder" track playing against "harder" opponents. There's no guarantee he'd have played any better with the win than he did anyway. 

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1 minute ago, VanderLegion said:

He might have, but we can't go back in time and change that. I pointed out the same thing myself that he may have played wise as a result, and I'd be fine giving him day 2 as a result, but not an automatic top cut. 

The flip side of the different matchups is with the win he'd be on the "harder" track playing against "harder" opponents. There's no guarantee he'd have played any better with the win than he did anyway. 

A lot of what ifs unfortunately.  I do agree though, at least give him day 2 at a minimum, see what he can do.

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22 minutes ago, Zazaa said:

I hope the FFG will correct this problem fast! Incase they won't this will be such a huge sh**t storm from the entire community! They should not only kick him out from the tournament but not let him in to the next year's event either. These are god sake world championship tournaments!! So now anyone can just cheat when ever one time and get out with official "warning"...

 FFG you have disappointed me and community big time and how you have dissolved this cheating have chew off you credibility as tournament organizer! I have always been dreaming of attending to it, but now I'm not sure if I do wanna spend my money after this, not because there might be cheaters, but how this issue has been solved and with my decision I want to protest against FFGs decision and pay my remorse to the opponent.

 

PS. I was one of the 500+ viewers who saw it happen live! :ph34r:

So apparently he got loss in the end! I can rest in peace, but I would like to see him kicked out tho and banned next year's world's just because it was so obvious.

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1 minute ago, Zazaa said:

So apparently he got loss in the end! I can rest in peace, but I would like to see him kicked out tho and banned next year's world's just because it was so obvious.

However not a against the player he cheated who in the end missed out making day two by 1

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Just now, Nastrado said:

However not a against the player he cheated who in the end missed out making day two by 1

I'm so confused! Not really... So I won't rest in peace! 

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I feel very bad for the cheated party, and cheating is 100% wrong. 

But

Let's forgive and move on guys. If Parker ever ends up across a table from me, I'll shake his hand and play the game. I've seen people cheat before. I've had people cheat while playing me at big events. My thought: win or lose your game but play past it.  The anger and argument is as toxic to you as them, so just don't go there.  The judges know, it's been handled.

Cut a frustrated player some slack. I do drop a dry quip letting them know I saw it, and I move on. Maybe we should move on? Let's not be vindictive. While this may or maynot be the worst thing he's done, would anyone of us want to wear a poor choice as a label? 

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I'll give an update on how this affected Mike's day. 

Mike started great, 2-0, and was flying this list.

Then this total dumpster fire happened. 

FFG did not make any attempt to inform Mike of what had happened. The Gold Squadron guys let him know about the situation. Mike then approached a judge. He wasn't given much of an answer other than "We will talk to him but don't expect the result to change"

Then he had to go try to get settled and play Round 4, which you can imagine, didn't go well, not to take anything away from his opponent. Plus, during round 4, his opponent from round 3 came over and apologized. (Why is he approaching Mike).

After Round 4 Mike approached the judges again, and they gave him the same boilerplate response that they delivered to these forums. 

Ok, end of update, now my personal rant as a friend of Mike's. 

This is such a ridiculous situation, and one that FFG probably couldn't have handled worse, unless they were United Airlines. If his opponent was penalized a game, why wouldn't it be the game that the infraction happened in? How is the integrity of the tournament upheld if his next opponent gets a free 200 mov? This worlds is tainted. What went from an excellent weekend of fun star wars gaming, has turned into an absolute fecal fiasco. 

Edited by wereplatypus

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7 minutes ago, Lobokai said:

...

Let's forgive and move on guys....

Apology-accepted.jpg

Oh wait, he didn't apologies.

But the sad truth is now this has made the highlight (and a negative one) of Worlds. We will here about this in the X-wing podcasts for certain. So this is not going to go away as soon as some might be comfortable with. Sure we should not drag it out, but the conduct of the player, the handling of this incident by FFG and the results are a considerable topic that has marred X-wing miniatures and FFG worlds. Damage is done, and it might not be irreparable but a considerable amount of time is going to be needed (and sadly that would not be overnight). I will hear about it at next week's X-wing night, and in the podcasts, and so will you if you listen to them.

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I wish FFG would explain their "not malicious" ruling better. That seems to contradict the video evidence clearly. If they could present their thought process or maybe show additional evidence to support the ruling, it would help regain trust. Based on posts I'm seeing, trust seems to be in short supply.

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4 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

I wish FFG would explain their "not malicious" ruling better. That seems to contradict the video evidence clearly. If they could present their thought process or maybe show additional evidence to support the ruling, it would help regain trust. Based on posts I'm seeing, trust seems to be in short supply.

An awful lot of blind faith in FFG just got burnt up.

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8 minutes ago, Droidlover said:

I wonder if this ****storm will result in FFG no longer allowing third party streaming at elite events?

Not likely, That move would do more damage than this cheating incident, and they don't seem like GW level of stupid. 

4 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

I wish FFG would explain their "not malicious" ruling better. That seems to contradict the video evidence clearly. If they could present their thought process or maybe show additional evidence to support the ruling, it would help regain trust. Based on posts I'm seeing, trust seems to be in short supply.

Well a while back I put in my overview of it. The cheating was to correct a novice mistake on part of the player, not interfere with an opponent's ship. An example of clear malicious attempt would be like putting the dial between 1 hard turns not know which direction your opponent is going, and then switching it to the maneuver that puts your opponent's ship in arc. That would be clearly malicious.

However it was intentional and deliberate. A warning would not be enough. Still a missed action (thanks to mindlink) may have had a negligible effect or significant effect. Like you I haven't seen the rest of the turn in the video so I can't tell what impact that slight had. The fact that the game resulted in a win for the offending player does not make the situation any better.

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1 hour ago, IG88E said:

1. Please stop writing memes and other jokes, what's the matter of some of you?

So, what... we should pretend that we don't know precisely who we are talking about? That donkey CHOSE to blatantly cheat that other player in an incredibly obvious and pretty public way. Why should he get to remain anonymous? Not as if I am threatening the guy or throwing a brick through his window...

Regardless, you want to sit atop your moral high ground where nobody gets called out for anything that's fine, but don't presume to wag your finger at people who don't agree with you. I think this clown deserves a bit of negative attention. Cheaters and liars are one and the same, and I have no time for either.

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Anyone that has been around FFG long enough knows that this is par for the course from those bunch of tards. FFG caters to the casual gamer and assumes people dont cheat. Also, they have always been reactive and never proactive with these sort of things. If they were proactive they would write a legitimate tournament guideline that outlines infractions & penalties, intent not with standing for any penalty. If you do X than Y happens to you, whether that is a warning, game loss, or DQ. 

As for how they handled this situation, the screwed it up everyway possible. They should have given the game loss in the match that it happened in. By giving the game loss to the next round opponent they messed with the integrity of the event. I really cant even fathom how any judge they think a warning is fair in that situation. 

I've been playing FFG games for 4 years now and their OP has continued to prove that they are joke and will never change. You can manipulate your dial in X-wing but if you draw an extra card in Star Wars LCG its an auto game loss. Explain to me how that makes sense. 

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Just now, Stay On The Leader said:

An awful lot of blind faith in FFG just got burnt up.

Basically. Judging an event requires the players to have trust in the TO(s). If you don't feel you can trust those judging to be fair, the whole situation goes down the drain.

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Well the problem is that it was so obvious cheating and there was 500+ witnessing it.. It is good thing he got caught on camera. This punishment will determine how FFG will handle these things in future.

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8 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

Yeah, because god forbid they don't give in to the lynch mob. 

This isn't about the lynch mob anymore. It's about damage control. The reputation of Worlds could take a hit from this if people don't believe they can trust the rulings from Worlds's TOs. 

8 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Not likely, That move would do more damage than this cheating incident, and they don't seem like GW level of stupid. 

Well a while back I put in my overview of it. The cheating was to correct a novice mistake on part of the player, not interfere with an opponent's ship. An example of clear malicious attempt would be like putting the dial between 1 hard turns not know which direction your opponent is going, and then switching it to the maneuver that puts your opponent's ship in arc. That would be clearly malicious.

However it was intentional and deliberate. A warning would not be enough. Still a missed action (thanks to mindlink) may have had a negligible effect or significant effect. Like you I haven't seen the rest of the turn in the video so I can't tell what impact that slight had. The fact that the game resulted in a win for the offending player does not make the situation any better.

I read your overview and found it to be pretty convincing. But I think it's something that needs to be said by FFG themselves. 

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