Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I see two threads on here about the same thing with lots of posts about the hovering template.  Do they not even watch their own forums, do they not care? Can someone just answer the question from ffg? I'm actually having the same problem in my meta because all they own is the force awakens core set and the rule book doesn't specify if you can or not.  All it takes is a 30 second answer from someone that works with this company and we would have our definitive prove so that the arguments stop at our stores

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/6/2017 at 7:21 AM, Darthmalgus said:

I have sent them an email and also no response

Considering that Worlds just ended you might get an answer soon. I imagine they were very busy in the month or so leading up to this weekend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They read the forum, there is multiple instance of them changing the FAQ after the forum talked about it enough. I would not be surprised to see this in the next FAQ. Thing is, they seems to release them at specific time.

There is also the possibility they have a debate right now about how to use it or where to put it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, what's the question?  If you have a rules question please ask.

Can you "hover" your template during play?  As long as the movement made is agreed by both players.  Both players don't want to do it?  Mark the ships and move them carefully.  The judge is the correct person to go to if there is a questionable movement to be made. 

Or if we look in the "current" rules... ;)

Page 14 of the rules reference: 


 

moving through.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Tritoxin said:

So, what's the question?  If you have a rules question please ask.

Can you "hover" your template during play?  As long as the movement made is agreed by both players.  Both players don't want to do it?  Mark the ships and move them carefully.  The judge is the correct person to go to if there is a questionable movement to be made. 

Or if we look in the "current" rules... ;)

Page 14 of the rules reference: 


 

moving through.JPG

Tritoxin, no disrespect, but I think you're missing the question here. The rules question is whether or not it's allowed to "hover" templates over ships during the planning phase, when maneuvers are being initially dialed in. I don't think anyone here has any issues with hovering templates over ships during the activation phase like in instances where the snippet of the rules you linked apply. I mean, they have 3D printed template risers on etsy that you can buy for a couple bucks if you wanted an aide to assist with hovering templates over ships during the activation phase.

Edited by Juunon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Juunon, thanks for the clarification.  I guess that's why it is good reason for the OP to state the original issue. I have not watching the threads lately.  That is an interesting question.  

edit: OP as in original post, not official play

Edited by Tritoxin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

I think its pretty clear in the rules that you cannot use visual aides to pre measure maneuvers during the planning phase.

Your kind of did not read any other post about that... but if you have something new to share, can you gladly post where in the rules it is pretty clear. Because right now the general consensus is that it is no where in the rule anymore...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The original rule book is still valid.

P6 original rule book.

Each selection on the maneuver dial has a corresponding maneuver template, which measures the ship’s movement during the Activation phase. During the Planning phase, players cannot use maneuver templates in order to “test” where ships will end up. Instead, they must plan their maneuvers by estimating their ships’ movement in their heads.

New rule book has omitted that passage, but not superceded it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, McLaine said:

The original rule book is still valid.

Not really.  You can't download it, and in the Tournament Regulations v2 it says...

Quote

Tournaments are played using the rules provided in the X-Wing Rules Reference and FAQ, both of which may be downloaded from the X-Wing page of our website at any time.

So between those two things it's actually pretty hard to make the argument that the original rule book is still valid.

That doesn't mean I think you can use a template in the planning phase, but it is something that FFG should address since this keeps coming up. 

Edited by VanorDM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are lots of things that are ommitted, and yes, FFG need to tidy those things up.

But omission is not permission.

In the absence of the rule in the new book, A TO will rule as per original rulebook, as per the way the game has always been played. You would have to come up with a new rule that specifically over rides it in order to have a hope of winning the debate.

Edited by McLaine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, McLaine said:

In the absence of the rule in the new book, A TO will rule as per original rulebook, as per the way the game has always been played.

We're generally not talking about tournaments here, because I think 99% of all TO's would rule the same way.  This discussion is about casual games, and the problems with not being able to point at something in the current rules that covers this.

It would be better if they omitted all references to pre-measuring, but they do cover when you can or can't measure range.  That and the fact that they don't mention it at all anywhere else makes for an uphill argument, because if they care enough to mention it one place, but not others then that could actually mean something.  

Also when you're dealing with someone or a group of people who approach it from "if it doesn't say you can't do it, then you can..." you're going to have to either point out where it says it, or convince them to change how they think.  But pointing at a outdated rule book that they can't even download any longer is not going to help your argument any.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, McLaine said:

There are lots of things that are ommitted, and yes, FFG need to tidy those things up.

But omission is not permission.

In the absence of the rule in the new book, A TO will rule as per original rulebook, as per the way the game has always been played. You would have to come up with a new rule that specifically over rides it in order to have a hope of winning the debate.

Dude, have you just joined the forum, this have been argued at large, we all agree to that... Did you even read the OP.

We say that FFG should add it back to prevent further mistake by new player. We never said we now have the right to do it or that TO would now rule that we can do it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the rules don`t forbid me from flicking the opponents ships off the mat when they aren`t looking either.

 

there must be over a thousand videos on youtube of people playing x wing and in none of them does anyone hover a template around while figuring out what move to do.

if anyone in your local meta is doing this send them here so i can insult them to there face. its f____ing stupid.

also...sure...FFG should tidy up a rule book and make it available online for free so mouth breathing idiots in some towns local meta can get a clue because apparently they have a problem with their eyes ...or brains....or something.

man...this is irritating. I feel REALLY bad that you have to deal with this at all. who are these people??? is there noone else to play with where your at?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Main reason its not being officially replied was already explained but another thing is because its so **** obvious, if you have people in your group of players that insist on playing like that, then find new people to play with and let them cheat among cheaters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, VanorDM said:

We're generally not talking about tournaments here, because I think 99% of all TO's would rule the same way.  This discussion is about casual games, and the problems with not being able to point at something in the current rules that covers this.

It would be better if they omitted all references to pre-measuring, but they do cover when you can or can't measure range.  That and the fact that they don't mention it at all anywhere else makes for an uphill argument, because if they care enough to mention it one place, but not others then that could actually mean something.  

Also when you're dealing with someone or a group of people who approach it from "if it doesn't say you can't do it, then you can..." you're going to have to either point out where it says it, or convince them to change how they think.  But pointing at a outdated rule book that they can't even download any longer is not going to help your argument any.

My apologies then. If it's casual games we're talking about, then do what makes both players happy.

This next bit's for everyone, not just VanorDM

I do explain to my friends when we're playing casual that this part of the game is one of the areas where you can really improve and get a great sense of satisfaction when you plan and pull off that perfect maneuver, so I encourage them to not use templates to help plan. But no new player likes being frustrated by landing on rocks, or turning too far/not far enough.

If they're playing casual and having a debate about the rules, then it's a rules question regardless of being a tournament or not, and my previous opinion stands

It was in the original core book, but has been ommitted from the new RR.

In the absence of an explicit rule in the new rule book, TO's will draw on the experience of the game and established precedent, of which the original rule book qualifies.

If you want to play tight to the rules, Maneuvers are planned in the head, only eyeballing the table and game state.

Edited by McLaine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/13/2017 at 7:43 AM, McLaine said:

In the absence of an explicit rule in the new rule book, TO's will draw on the experience of the game and established precedent, of which the original rule book qualifies.

That's how I've done it and will continue to do it.  But when you're dealing a group of people who play a given way, there's only two ways to change that... Prove them wrong or get them to change how they think.  Because if enough of them agree then you are not only fighting a wrong view, you're fighting a bunch of wrong views which tend to reinforce themselves.  

It's easier for one person to change their mind then a group once they agree upon something.

Since in most cases we're dealing with newer players they're less likely to consider the old book valid, so pointing out what the old book says isn't always a compelling argument or evidence.  Worse is they can point out how it's not mentioned in the current tournament rules, or on the FFG page.  

Also most other games now allow pre-measuring, so it is no longer universally against the rules like it was at one point.  

All of this leads to a lot of heavy lifting in trying to convince people they're wrong, when it would be so much easier and simple if FFG would just address it in the rules, like they do with measuring attack ranges.

On 5/12/2017 at 9:28 PM, Darthmalgus said:

Yes I need rock hard evidence so I can stop this in my local meta and ffg want even answer my email on the subject kind of sucks actually

FFG will answer your email, but it can take time.  They don't have a dedicated CS staff for rules questions, they're normally answered directly by the game's developers, so they answer when they have time.   Often they will go some time without answering any if there's a new FAQ due out soon.

But you should plan on it taking weeks and perhaps even a month or more before you get an answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/05/2017 at 9:15 AM, PanchoX1 said:

You can always call on x-wings "golden rule", do what the rules say, don't do what they don't say. They don't say you can pre measure 

What I don't like about these kind of thought is, it is always assume "It is evident" just because you know it is the way to play.

No where did the rule say you can put your hand on the table so you don't fall down when you reach over the table, but you probably do it. Rule also don't say that you can look around if a ship could pass trough and you probably do it. For some time, it was not written in the rule that you could remove ship to make space when doing a maneuver and now it is. Before it was written, people were still removing ship to ease out stuff. So this is not because it is not written in the rule that you can do something that you must not do it. And this is the argument pro pre measure will use.

Rule need to be clear end of story, or advertise your game as not made for tournement play.

Edited by muribundi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would qualify that as the difference between doing things to clarify and ensure a stable gamestate, while the other gives the player more information.

 

Of course that probably wouldn't help given the apparent bull-headedness of your friends.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...