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Elkerlyc

Maximum size unit you'd field?

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Just wondering; what is the largest size you think you can realistically field a unit?

I have 2 core sets right now and in the process of painting this lot and was wondering how many expansions would be enough.

For example; I have 8 bases of reanimates now.

The moment I add a Carrion lancer I guesstimate this is the largest size unit (9 bases) I can realistically field in a mere 200 points.

 

What is the maximum size unit you'd field? (in a 200 pts of course)

 

[edit]: no post is any good without a picture. So ére ya go; my WIP painting.

18194855_1685311248149626_52169220476032

 

Edited by Elkerlyc

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One thing I found intriguing is the impact of terrain on the battlefield, which feels much more significant than armada.  In one game my opponents large block what effectively cut off, due to terrain capacity and placement.  He could cross the board on a single Avenue, which he had to shift and adjust for. This was unanticipated, and makes taking large trays potentially more risky.  This was an interesting discovery (a lake and spikes in the opposite corner deployment were the culprits, and the raised platform was occupied.

Edited by Darthain

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I fielded a 4x3 of reanimates and it is awesome, also 3x3 of spearmen with a rune golem is scary.  Max size formations are great in 200 points, but they can be pretty unwieldy depending on how the terrain gets placed. But for a lot of lists max size infantry will be very useful. 

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Just now, jek said:

I fielded a 4x3 of reanimates and it is awesome, also 3x3 of spearmen with a rune golem is scary.  Max size formations are great in 200 points, but they can be pretty unwieldy depending on how the terrain gets placed. But for a lot of lists max size infantry will be very useful. 

Would a maximum sized unit (also costing maximum size points!) reduce your number of activations to the degree where it really hurts?

On top of large units being even more prone to be blighted?

 

Just wondering. I have played a grand total of two games thus far. :)

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Most of my games at 200 have been between 5-6 units on each side, And with the threat/reroll mechanic have a lot of little units and no big meaty beat stick unit going against a big meaty beat stick unit you will probably die a brutal death.  I ran a bunch of little groups of archers with my giants blob of death, they blighted and occasionally did decent damage but it was a maximum of 6, so I think it might have killed 2 cav that activated first and used their plus defense...then they were charged next turn and brutalized.  because while they rolled 6 damage they did not roll enough for blighting. where as the 4x3 got the focus of a lot of units, (engaged by a 3x3 of spearmen, kari throwing daggers, and a min unit of cav trying to flank) and while it eventually died it manged to kill a LOT of guys and hold attention, it became a good tar pit that I just supported poorly.  I haven't been able to attest to blight since at present the only person playing against the 4x3 has been daqan but i'm sure it will get blighted but there are a lot of ways around that, dial in a rally, run a war crier blight back.. Max units will see a lot of play but it all depends on the list you want to run.

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4 hours ago, jek said:

 I haven't been able to attest to blight since at present the only person playing against the 4x3 has been daqan but i'm sure it will get blighted but there are a lot of ways around that, dial in a rally, run a war crier blight back.. Max units will see a lot of play but it all depends on the list you want to run.

If your max sized infantry block is dialing in a rally instead of an attack that's kind of a win for your opponent. It seems like the fewer units you are field, the less you can afford to use any actions that are removing enemy figures. 

Edited by WWHSD

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Spearmen i'll probably run 3x3 quite a bit since slapping a Golem in there is brutal (ha!) and still pretty cheap, its off the top of my head around 80pts (which sounds like a lot but it does a ton of damage and takes awhile to eat through).

Calvary i highly doubt i'd ever use more than 4 trays. Theyre expensive, clunky, and depending on initiative theyre actually easier than spearmen to remove in terms of numbers vs cost (or at least it feels that way). Especially when we get Hawthorne though the 4trays will be mean, 4x1 w/ Rank Disc ftw!

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25 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Spearmen i'll probably run 3x3 quite a bit since slapping a Golem in there is brutal (ha!) and still pretty cheap, its off the top of my head around 80pts (which sounds like a lot but it does a ton of damage and takes awhile to eat through).

Calvary i highly doubt i'd ever use more than 4 trays. Theyre expensive, clunky, and depending on initiative theyre actually easier than spearmen to remove in terms of numbers vs cost (or at least it feels that way). Especially when we get Hawthorne though the 4trays will be mean, 4x1 w/ Rank Disc ftw!

Spearmen with an added golem (or does he replace 4 spears?) is 66points without any other upgrades.

Hefty price tag. A third of your army. How ill you prevent it beign blighted into oblivion? War crier?

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All of my experience is in the context of playing Daqan against Waiqar, but it seems to me that MSU (multiple small units) will be superior to large blocks. Having more units to deploy helps you engage on your terms, and several units activating at the same initiative can be very useful. Terrain is another big one, since it can shut down whole patches of the board, and also because smaller units can use it to run circles around the large unit and get flank charges.

Dispatch Runners can help the issue, particularly of blight, since you can Rally it off at initiative 3 and then use the Dispatch Runner to make them attack before 5/6 when the blights come out, but then you're another 36 points deep for support. In the end, is it worth it? A 3x3 Spearmen with Golem should roll about two hits on average per attack, and let's assume we can add a hit modifier to that and call it 3. With threat 4-5 that's 12-15 damage from a 66 point unit, which could buy you 3 minimum size units of Oathsworn Cavalry. If their average hits is also 2, then in one turn they're doing 4 damage each, for 12 total, 18 if they get to dial in their hit as well.

Now obviously there's more to it than just damage output - the Spearmen are going to soak up considerably more damage, their average damage doesn't drop a whole lot as they take casualties, etc, but with all the drawbacks of a big unit, is it worth it?

The next debate is IF you're taking a 3x3, how much do you spend on upgrades? The banner than lets you activate +/- 1 initiative is a great flexibility tool, several of the musician options give extra maneuver control, an extra red die is a big deal when your threat is so high, and treating modifiers as white opens up possibilities as well.

I look forward to hearing people's experience!

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3x2 spearman w/ Kari

3x2 spearman w/war crier

[4] 2x1 cavalry w/ rank discipline

Has Been working great for me.

 

But not as well as 

3x3 reanimates w/ lancer

2x1 archers  w/  rank discipline

 2x1 archers w/  rank discipline

ardus w/ancient technique

lancer

lancer

2x1 lancer w/rank discipline 

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1 hour ago, Drakoniss said:

3x2 spearman w/ Kari

3x2 spearman w/war crier

[4] 2x1 cavalry w/ rank discipline

Has Been working great for me.

 

But not as well as 

3x3 reanimates w/ lancer

2x1 archers  w/  rank discipline

 2x1 archers w/  rank discipline

ardus w/ancient technique

lancer

lancer

2x1 lancer w/rank discipline 

I'm curious do you like the 3X3 reanimate lancer better than the 3X2 reanimate lancer? and why

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19 hours ago, Klaxas said:

I'm curious do you like the 3X3 reanimate lancer better than the 3X2 reanimate lancer? and why

It dies to fast that small.  After a ton of 200 point games I will never run reanimates smaller than 3x3. I have tried it often 3x2 and taking another lancer.

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11 hours ago, Drakoniss said:

It dies to fast that small.  After a ton of 200 point games I will never run reanimates smaller than 3x3. I have tried it often 3x2 and taking another lancer.

interesting thanks for the input.  I used them in a 150 game and they worked pretty well

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While they might be unwieldy, I really do want to try a 3x3 spearman unit.  You have to deal 16 points of damage to that unit before it starts seeing any real falloff in combat effectiveness, and if they have a defense mod dialed in, that goes up to 32.  Defense mod and Shield Wall?  Boom.  48 damage required to knock off the back rank and one tray of the second rank. 

3x3 Spearmen with a front line rune golem, shield wall, eagle banner, your choice of musician, and either weapon master (for more damage) lance corporal (to get the +1 defense on attacks) or greyhaven channeler (for more consistency with the rune golem) gives one heck of a tanky unit that is pretty close to what a Death Star can be in this game.  You have a threat 4-5 unit possibly rolling 2 reds and a blue and able to spend inspiration for mortal strikes.  Granted you have a giant brick of troops that terrain can mess up that is nearing the 90 point mark, but it would be glorious.

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That's a very serious choice, rune golem really suits CC units. Current carrion lancer doesn't fit reanimates much. Fortunately carrion lancer expansion has a lot better alternative card! Perfect for deathstars

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4 minutes ago, druchii7 said:

Current carrion lancer doesn't fit reanimates much. Fortunately carrion lancer expansion has a lot better alternative card! Perfect for deathstars

What card is that? I haven't seen any spoilers for the Carrion Lancer expansion.

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5 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

What card is that? I haven't seen any spoilers for the Carrion Lancer expansion.

Here, in Spanish

ffrwm09_web_h_n_sp_002.png

4th card beginning from the left. Fifth is the current siegue card.

Golem's alternative siege card features the golem skill for a quite less killy but quite more resillient unit.

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4 minutes ago, druchii7 said:

Here, in Spanish

ffrwm09_web_h_n_sp_002.png

4th card beginning from the left. Fifth is the current siegue card.

Golem's alternative siege card features the golem skill for a quite less killy but quite more resillient unit.

Thanks. Would you mind dropping in the image for the Golem?

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3 minutes ago, pancakeonions said:

Ima gonna field the big ol' oathsworn cav, just cuz i can, and daaaaaaamn they're gonna hit hard!

Talking about rune golem siege upgrade card? It's infantry only.

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4 hours ago, FatherTurin said:

While they might be unwieldy, I really do want to try a 3x3 spearman unit.  You have to deal 16 points of damage to that unit before it starts seeing any real falloff in combat effectiveness, and if they have a defense mod dialed in, that goes up to 32.  Defense mod and Shield Wall?  Boom.  48 damage required to knock off the back rank and one tray of the second rank. 

Having played against that very unit I can confirm it's a beast <<shudder>>

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