Jump to content

Recommended Posts

After reading @Snipafist's article about the Raiders, and looking at his fleet build, I decided to give the little guys a shot, especially since I've been in a funk lately, with horrible builds compounded by the dice gods mocking me (honestly... Demo with Ord Exp, and NO crits over 2 turns of shooting???) @CyborgNinja was nice enough to meet up for a game at the FLGS.

I went with his build listed earlier, but basically consisting of Ozzel, Demo, a second Glad I, 2 Raider I with OE, 2 Gozanti, and 6 TIE Fighters.  It gives a significant bid that is VERY tempting to reduce to throw some more toys in (I really wanted APT on the Raiders, but stuck with the basics).
I was facing a Dodonna list with an MC80 Command set up for squadron work, Yavaris, a BCC Transport, and a Comms Net Transport, and assorted fighters consisting of YT-1300s, B-Wings, Z-95s, and Jan.
I selected first player, and we were running his Fighter Ambush (all 3 were poor choices, that was the least poor I thought at the time).

Setup I had no idea what I was doing, so stuck one Raider way out to the side with the goal of running around his flank.  Everything else was towards the center.  My Comms Net flotilla is way off to the left side.
65126962-F0B1-4D2B-B470-25AC816E2002_zps

End of turn 1, I'm still trying to be non-committed, while trying to work out how my speed bump TIE Fighters are going to hold up his bombers.
A561139C-CBB9-4C9B-A7FC-68825DF1A4D5_zps

End of turn 2, my right Raider is still out of the picture, now racing to get into the fight.  I've partially committed my TIE Fighters to try and hold up his bomber ball for a turn.  I'm also trying to get Demo in without being bombed to heck by Yavaris, to take out at least a flotilla if not Yavaris as well, and set it up for a run on the MC-80.
B5EA2758-7785-4415-BEBA-9EF9AE8B8CC8_zps

End of turn 3, I've taken a little damage on Demo, but I'm also out of defense tokens with it.  Yavaris has some damage, and one of the Rebel flotillas was killed.  My TIE Fighters are pretty much done, and now I'm exposed badly.  My only chance is to kill stuff before I'm killed.
D1FA7530-C482-4681-A9BA-A6884066DA79_zps

End of turn 4, you can see a distinct lack of ships on the board.  I've made the mistake of allowing one of my flotillas to get too close to the MC-80 and some bombers, but his MC-80 has also just landed on an asteroid while going speed 1.  The Raider that was behind the MC-80 also died from poor placement of the ship.
1BFD0BA4-45F1-4628-AB0D-B7D40B4B28AD_zps

End of turn 5, the MC-80 has taken ram damage from a Raider and the Gladiator, and 2 turns of landing on the asteroid.  I have a front arc shot on it, and hoping to kill it before it kills me.  I was successful, and the Gladiator ended with 1 damage point remaining.  The remaining flotillas just brushed past each other with (I think) 1 damage on each of them.  
37E583EF-5C0E-49C2-B02F-E3FBDCCAE588_zps

Just based on ship points, it was pretty even, which is about normal for us.  The big disparity of the ~100 point victory for Ninja was the 5 victory tokens he received for his fighters damaging my ships.  In hindsight, superior positions may have been a better choice (Station Assault was the other objective to choose from).  It was a lot of fun to run these little ships around, and I think I may go with it at the store tourney this weekend.

Edited by emsgoof

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for giving it a try! I agree that the bid is usually too high. It depends on your meta. I'm frequently blowing out opponents by 10+ points for the bid but then I find after I lower it I hit someone else with a 14-15 point bid and I'm stuck going second when I really would've preferred not to. If you'd like to sneak in some more upgrades, feel free to tinker with it.

Using Raiders in support of the rest of the fleet (I don't recommend putting them off on a flank on their lonesome) takes some practice. The fleet in general has a glass jaw and the main method for handling that is to maneuver out of trouble. It took me several games before I got a handle on it back when the original idea was percolating. Don't get too frustrated while you're getting the hang of it.

In general I probably would've chosen Station Assault. It's not uncommon for a Raider to get in its punches in 1-2 turns and then decide to bug out before being destroyed. Raiders in those circumstances can make a break for a station and should be able to destroy one in 2 turns of shooting. I'm not a big fan of choosing Superior Positions because it allows your opponent to "dodge" Demolisher by setting up opposite it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Is that Nebulon-B treated as a standard Nebulon-B or is it given different stats for house rules? It is hard to see from the picture.

Standard Nebulon, just the Shapeways model instead of the FFG model.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

Thanks for giving it a try! I agree that the bid is usually too high. It depends on your meta. I'm frequently blowing out opponents by 10+ points for the bid but then I find after I lower it I hit someone else with a 14-15 point bid and I'm stuck going second when I really would've preferred not to. If you'd like to sneak in some more upgrades, feel free to tinker with it.

Using Raiders in support of the rest of the fleet (I don't recommend putting them off on a flank on their lonesome) takes some practice. The fleet in general has a glass jaw and the main method for handling that is to maneuver out of trouble. It took me several games before I got a handle on it back when the original idea was percolating. Don't get too frustrated while you're getting the hang of it.

In general I probably would've chosen Station Assault. It's not uncommon for a Raider to get in its punches in 1-2 turns and then decide to bug out before being destroyed. Raiders in those circumstances can make a break for a station and should be able to destroy one in 2 turns of shooting. I'm not a big fan of choosing Superior Positions because it allows your opponent to "dodge" Demolisher by setting up opposite it.

Thanks for the insight!  I think you're right about the station assault, I was just daunted by having to dish out 20 points of damage over 1-2 turns to try and get the VPs.  I would agree normally that the bid is pretty high, but with my dual Interdictor list I was trying last weekend, the 7 point bid was almost not enough due to a new player in the area with an 8-9 point bid (I ended up not facing him).  What's your thought on using the TIE Fighters, @Snipafist ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, emsgoof said:

After reading @Snipafist's article about the Raiders, and looking at his fleet build, I decided to give the little guys a shot, especially since I've been in a funk lately, with horrible builds compounded by the dice gods mocking me (honestly... Demo with Ord Exp, and NO crits over 2 turns of shooting???)  @CaribbeanNinja was nice enough to meet up for a game at the FLGS this afternoon.

I went with his build listed earlier, but basically consisting of Ozzel, Demo, a second Glad I, 2 Raider I with OE, 2 Gozanti, and 6 TIE Fighters.  It gives a significant bid that is VERY tempting to reduce to throw some more toys in (I really wanted APT on the Raiders, but stuck with the basics).
I was facing a Dodonna list with an MC80 Command set up for squadron work, Yavaris, a BCC Transport, and a Comms Net Transport, and assorted fighters consisting of YT-1300s, B-Wings, Z-95s, and Jan.
I selected first player, and we were running his Fighter Ambush (all 3 were poor choices, that was the least poor I thought at the time).

Setup I had no idea what I was doing, so stuck one Raider way out to the side with the goal of running around his flank.  Everything else was towards the center.  My Comms Net flotilla is way off to the left side.
65126962-F0B1-4D2B-B470-25AC816E2002_zps

End of turn 1, I'm still trying to be non-committed, while trying to work out how my speed bump TIE Fighters are going to hold up his bombers.
A561139C-CBB9-4C9B-A7FC-68825DF1A4D5_zps

End of turn 2, my right Raider is still out of the picture, now racing to get into the fight.  I've partially committed my TIE Fighters to try and hold up his bomber ball for a turn.  I'm also trying to get Demo in without being bombed to heck by Yavaris, to take out at least a flotilla if not Yavaris as well, and set it up for a run on the MC-80.
B5EA2758-7785-4415-BEBA-9EF9AE8B8CC8_zps

End of turn 3, I've taken a little damage on Demo, but I'm also out of defense tokens with it.  Yavaris has some damage, and one of the Rebel flotillas was killed.  My TIE Fighters are pretty much done, and now I'm exposed badly.  My only chance is to kill stuff before I'm killed.
D1FA7530-C482-4681-A9BA-A6884066DA79_zps

End of turn 4, you can see a distinct lack of ships on the board.  I've made the mistake of allowing one of my flotillas to get too close to the MC-80 and some bombers, but his MC-80 has also just landed on an asteroid while going speed 1.  The Raider that was behind the MC-80 also died from poor placement of the ship.
1BFD0BA4-45F1-4628-AB0D-B7D40B4B28AD_zps

End of turn 5, the MC-80 has taken ram damage from a Raider and the Gladiator, and 2 turns of landing on the asteroid.  I have a front arc shot on it, and hoping to kill it before it kills me.  I was successful, and the Gladiator ended with 1 damage point remaining.  The remaining flotillas just brushed past each other with (I think) 1 damage on each of them.  
37E583EF-5C0E-49C2-B02F-E3FBDCCAE588_zps

Just based on ship points, it was pretty even, which is about normal for us.  The big disparity of the ~100 point victory for Ninja was the 5 victory tokens he received for his fighters damaging my ships.  In hindsight, superior positions may have been a better choice (Station Assault was the other objective to choose from).  It was a lot of fun to run these little ships around, and I think I may go with it at the store tourney this weekend.

I'm glad I did so well. I've gotten so good that I can play while on a plane from Minnesota. @moodswing5537Is pissed that I win games I wasn't even at. The Force is strong with me. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, emsgoof said:

Thanks for the insight!  I think you're right about the station assault, I was just daunted by having to dish out 20 points of damage over 1-2 turns to try and get the VPs.  I would agree normally that the bid is pretty high, but with my dual Interdictor list I was trying last weekend, the 7 point bid was almost not enough due to a new player in the area with an 8-9 point bid (I ended up not facing him).  What's your thought on using the TIE Fighters, @Snipafist ?

Ah crap, I had this big response all typed out and then @CaribbeanNinja responded and I went to see what he said and the forum lost the response entirely. Boo. Here's the short version:

TIE Fighters need to be used with Raiders against heavier-squadron fleets. Sending them out alone will get them torn to shreds. Using them alongside Raiders gives you a fighting chance and the Flechette Torpedoes can really pay off against heavier squadron builds. If you hadn't read my TIE Fighter article yet, I'd give it a shot.

In general I like to deploy a Gozanti first followed by 3 deployments of TIE Fighters. Maybe add another Gozanti in there before finishing off the TIE Fighters if I need another squadron deployment node. This lets you buy some time to see where the other fleet intends to focus its resources.

Ozzel's Gladiator is intended as a finisher. I find I'm not usually making serious anti-ship attacks with it until turn 4 (turn 3 at the earliest if my opponent is being very aggressive). I usually start it further towards the back and navigate at speed 1 or 2 so it can pounce on enemy ships that were weakened by earlier Demolisher and/or Raider attacks. Due to that, it can help command TIE Fighters earlier on when you're up against heavier squadrons. In those circumstances, I like to slot in a squadron command for turn 3 (so put it on the bottom of the stack on turn 2). The Skilled First Officer can let you use it on turn 2 if the enemy squadrons come at you early. If not, then you'll usually want it on turn 3. If it turns out it's unnecessary then (because your Gozantis can handle it and some of your TIEs died), then the Skilled First Officer can discard it then to do whatever you would've preferred instead. Used this way it's effectively an optional extra squadron command.

If you're looking to spend a few more points I'd consider putting Insidious on Ozzel's Gladiator. Past that the Raider titles are also pretty appealing. I'm not sure about putting APTs on the Raiders instead of Flechettes as the Flechettes are quite helpful against squadron-heavy fleets. They won't always be useful, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

Ah crap, I had this big response all typed out and then @CaribbeanNinja responded and I went to see what he said and the forum lost the response entirely. Boo. Here's the short version:

TIE Fighters need to be used with Raiders against heavier-squadron fleets. Sending them out alone will get them torn to shreds. Using them alongside Raiders gives you a fighting chance and the Flechette Torpedoes can really pay off against heavier squadron builds. If you hadn't read my TIE Fighter article yet, I'd give it a shot.

In general I like to deploy a Gozanti first followed by 3 deployments of TIE Fighters. Maybe add another Gozanti in there before finishing off the TIE Fighters if I need another squadron deployment node. This lets you buy some time to see where the other fleet intends to focus its resources.

Ozzel's Gladiator is intended as a finisher. I find I'm not usually making serious anti-ship attacks with it until turn 4 (turn 3 at the earliest if my opponent is being very aggressive). I usually start it further towards the back and navigate at speed 1 or 2 so it can pounce on enemy ships that were weakened by earlier Demolisher and/or Raider attacks. Due to that, it can help command TIE Fighters earlier on when you're up against heavier squadrons. In those circumstances, I like to slot in a squadron command for turn 3 (so put it on the bottom of the stack on turn 2). The Skilled First Officer can let you use it on turn 2 if the enemy squadrons come at you early. If not, then you'll usually want it on turn 3. If it turns out it's unnecessary then (because your Gozantis can handle it and some of your TIEs died), then the Skilled First Officer can discard it then to do whatever you would've preferred instead. Used this way it's effectively an optional extra squadron command.

If you're looking to spend a few more points I'd consider putting Insidious on Ozzel's Gladiator. Past that the Raider titles are also pretty appealing. I'm not sure about putting APTs on the Raiders instead of Flechettes as the Flechettes are quite helpful against squadron-heavy fleets. They won't always be useful, though.

That makes the list seem to flow together a lot better.  Thanks for the info!  Reading the TIE article now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I should probably add that the reason I'd consider Insidious on Ozzel's Gladiator is due to the fact that he's waiting a bit behind to pounce on enemy ships he can also be used Raider-style to "catch" enemy ships that try to jump over your Raiders/Demolisher. The easiest way around this is to try to turn those ships away from Ozzel's ship to avoid close range. When done successfully, this can expose their rear to medium-range shots which Insidious would help with. It doesn't happen often, which is why I haven't gone out of my way to include Insidious, but it happens every now and then and I find myself wishing I had Insidious on there to help Ozzel do his job.

This picture from the Gladiator article's section on Insidious shows what I'm talking about:

Star+Wars+ArmadaMap.png

Against not-Insidious, that MC30 is doing fine. Against Insidious, it really isn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've used @Snipafist's base Raider fleet build to wipe out two Rebel fleets down to just the lifeboat flotilla. One was a pretty standard MC30 TRC090 fleet, the other was a heavy bomber Yavaris/Pelta build. Here's some tips:

  • Use your Gozantis to block. The benefit of keeping Ozzel on a Gladiator is that you don't mind throwing away a Gozanti if it means you can prevent a large ship from moving 2 turns in a row while your black dice ships tear them to shreds
  • Gozantis should be flakking in the midst of things. Black dice flak supporting Raider black dice flak + your TIES = dead enemy bomber balls
  • Did you get any double arcs from your Gladiators on enemy ships in turn 3/4? I've gone as aggressive as end turn 1 with a double arc for turn 2 if the situation is right. Based on the pics it looks like the glads spent time turning and chasing instead of firing.
  • Raider piloting: I'm not sure what you did with the center deployed raider but I would have steered it towards the bomber ball and jumped in turn 3/4 to flak and get out. Keep two or three TIES nearby as escorts to jump in so your Raiders can jump out w/o taking damage. B-wings are slow so as soon as you saw Yavaris trying to navigate them to the left you should have steered your Raider there (it would also have put it in the front arc of the MC80 which is far better than the side arc).

Just so I'm not being armchair admiral, here's how a weekend game went turn by turn vs. a squadron ball Rebel fleet. If there's one thing you should note, see how many double-arc black dice opportunities were available at the end of every turn to use as first player the next round. Activation advantage during the turn allows you to always set your ships up to have a great shot first thing next turn.

 

Edited by IronCondor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the battle report, I do enjoy the text/pic based ones as much as the video reports as they are so much more browser friendly when overseas on terrible internet connections.

When is the next game with the fleet?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/9/2017 at 7:28 PM, buckero0 said:

Where did you get that beautiful mat? Love the report, I'm thinking of doing something similar 

Sorry @buckero0, just noticing your post.  I don't remember if it belongs to @CyborgNinja or if it was the store's mat.  Maybe he will pop in and let you know, he goes to the store more frequently than I do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, emsgoof said:

Well @Snipafist your guide worked pretty well. Today I added Insidious and went 7-4, 6-5, and 4-7 in a store tournament.  The 4-7 was completely my fault, allowing Demo to get swarmed by 5 Decimators before the TIE Fighters got to them.

Glad to hear you were successful!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've also decided to switch my dice sets out... Again I had 4 turns overall with zero crits with double arc gladiators rerolling...  It's time to put the current set in time-out!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...