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Leia help

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As for using her (which sounds bad):

 

We proxied her and ran something like:

2xMC30/OE/APT

TR90

Bright Hope/EHB/flagship

Phoenix Home/Entrapment/Antilles/Ahsoka

Tycho/Shara/Ketsu/awing

It worked well enough and could be a use for Leia. Entrapment formation functions well enough as a "second command" for all those ships and freed them for spamming CF. 

Edited by Church14

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Compare her cost to Tarkin's. Tarkin gives all your ships a token -- and it must be the same token. 

 

Leia gives your ships a virtual token that matches the ship's current dial (and can't be used with other tokens). 

 

Tarkin's ability is good for ships with a high command value, Leia's is better for low command values.

 

Tarkin's real tokens can be spent in conjunction with others and can be saved for later use, but he gives the same token to everyone whether they need it or not. He has to decide what token to give at the outset of the turn and may find he chose poorly. Leia's "virtual token" is more restricted but her ability allows for more flexibility in some ways because its use happens when that particular ship activates, allowing you to use it or not based on what the situation is in that moment -- not what you'd thought it would be at the start of the turn.

 

In short, I think the designers thought of her ability as being kinda similar to Tarkin's tokens (tm) and priced it accordingly.

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34 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

With Leia you never need to bank a squadron token with Yavaris and can use its effect with a squad-booster officer without wanting to use Raymus or a Veteran Captain for the squadron tokens. Neither do you need to bank a concentrate fire token with Salvation (and you can free up the seat for an Intel Officer). Leia does those things for you for free. She also lets you go from speed 1 to speed 3 with a nav dial and she lets you repair for 6 when Redemption is around. That seems like it has potential.

Sure but then I could not escape the ISD's front arc after the squadron command. That is how I like to run Nebs. Have the ISD bear down on them, force the ISD into long range then make it activate and come closer so I can speed up and dodge. If it does not do that then the neb can harass and annoy as it wants. Yavaris and Salvation are too dangerous of a target at times to ignore if you. Can't bear squadrons down on them. 

 

However  IF Leia stacks with a token, 4 Squadrons double tapping a ship will be disgusting 

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38 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

With Leia you never need to bank a squadron token with Yavaris and can use its effect with a squad-booster officer without wanting to use Raymus or a Veteran Captain for the squadron tokens. Neither do you need to bank a concentrate fire token with Salvation (and you can free up the seat for an Intel Officer). Leia does those things for you for free. She also lets you go from speed 1 to speed 3 with a nav dial and she lets you repair for 6 when Redemption is around. That seems like it has potential.

38 points though. 38 points for maybe benefits not assured benefits like Garm, Dodonna, Mothma, and Rieekan. 

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12 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Its been on the FAQ sheet for the vassal tournament since before I made it public-viewable.

Nvm... I checked it... Boring... Way to weak for a 10th of one's points. 

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9 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Nvm... I checked it... Boring... Way to weak for a 10th of one's points. 

Well it was a ruling a large group of people decided on when Leia first appeared. It's not like Dras made the decision on his own even though he did write the document.

More importantly, we have no context on how to use Leia or Sloane but they are in the Vassal tourny. A choice had to be made.

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28 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Its been on the FAQ sheet for the vassal tournament since before I made it public-viewable.

Thanks. I had even read it then forgotten that part. Sorry for summoning you unnecessarily. 

I hereby lay you to rest.

KLAATU BARADO NIKTO

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33 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Well it was a ruling a large group of people decided on when Leia first appeared. It's not like Dras made the decision on his own even though he did write the document.

More importantly, we have no context on how to use Leia or Sloane but they are in the Vassal tourny. A choice had to be made.

Still so weak for so many points. At least for me the loss of command flexibility and the frequent use of her ability makes her a bad choice. 

Edited by Lyraeus

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6 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Still so weak for so many points. At least for me the loss of command flexibility and the frequent use of her ability makes her a bad choice. 

She's weak for so many points if you build just like you would for Garm or Madine. Just like every other interesting admiral, you build a fleet to take advantage of her, not just drop her into something you already have and hope for the best.

My first shot at her (not playtested at all yet):

CR90 Tanks (400/400)
===================
Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 + 46)
    + Leia Organa (38)
    + Redemption (8)
Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 + 19)
    + Raymus Antilles (7)
    + Shields to Maximum! (6)
    + Projection Experts (6)
CR90 Corvette A (44 + 13)
    + Projection Experts (6)
    + Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
CR90 Corvette A (44 + 13)
    + Projection Experts (6)
    + Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
CR90 Corvette A (44 + 13)
    + Projection Experts (6)
    + Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
CR90 Corvette A (44 + 13)
    + Projection Experts (6)
    + Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
Most Wanted
Hyperspace assault
Solar Corona

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3 hours ago, Madaghmire said:

I'm looking at this conversation, and while I lean towards undead's interpretation I have to say I think both are pretty reasonable. I look forward to finding out how she works sixth months after release.

Same here, I can't think of anything that would stop you using Leia on a command then including a token as part of that command. It's the only interpretation that could really justify her cost.

It would give her some use in MSu builds and yavaris, otherwise she's a bit of a bust.......

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28 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Still so weak for so many points. At least for me the loss of command flexibility and the frequent use of her ability makes her a bad choice. 

I agree. Regardless of how she is ruled, stacking or not, I think she is way to expensive. I don't understand FFGs fascination with command tokens. Officer Leia is far and away better than the commander IMO. Take her and Ahsoka if you really want the dial+token effect so badly for 5 points and grab a better commander.

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29 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

She's weak for so many points if you build just like you would for Garm or Madine. Just like every other interesting admiral, you build a fleet to take advantage of her, not just drop her into something you already have and hope for the best.

 

I don't use either of those. That sort of flexibility is nice but not my style. 

 

16 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I agree. Regardless of how she is ruled, stacking or not, I think she is way to expensive. I don't understand FFGs fascination with command tokens. Officer Leia is far and away better than the commander IMO. Take her and Ahsoka if you really want the dial+token effect so badly for 5 points and grab a better commander.

Command tokens in Armada are like Dice manipulation in X-Wing. 

 

Command control is more important becuase it is easier for us to get more dice and to get rerolls

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9 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

I don't use either of those. That sort of flexibility is nice but not my style. 

Sigh.

9 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

if you build just like you would for Garm or Madine or Rieekan or Ackbar or Mon Mothma or Cracken or Dodonna.

Did I miss anybody?

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I'm using Leia in the tourney too.  Let's see how she does, though I suppose there may be a bit of a learning curve.

 

2 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

38 points though. 38 points for maybe benefits not assured benefits like Garm, Dodonna, Mothma, and Rieekan. 

 I don't understand this Lyr - Leia's commands always work - so as long as you get the command you want, you'll get her benefit if you want.  100% of the time.  How often do you use 100% of an Admiral's power?  

Garm - so many tokens have gone unused when I take him...and if the ship's dead by turn 5 you don't get his benefit.

Mothma - if your ships stay at long range the first half of the game you've wasted half of the game not benefitting from her.

Rieekan - I hope you never need all your ships to benefit from his ability.

;)

 

I'm jesting a bit, of course.  But I think she may be a good admiral for not-overly-complex thinkers like me, who can't handle thinking about multiple commands/tokens in advance.  With Leia, it's one order at a time.  Simple!

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So...if Leia stacks with banked tokens...

I could run a double pickle list with engineering teams on both MC80s and a flotilla or two running Comms Net to feed them tokens and get 11 repair each turn on each MC80? (Base 4 + 1 for engineering team makes for base 5, +3 for Leia's token effect and +3 more for a banked token). 

If that is legal I could maybe see her being worth 38 points.

 

Edit: As someone pointed out, it looks like Engineering teams only gives you an additional engineering point rather than increasing your base engineering value. So the best she could do is probably 9 repair.

Edited by SmogLord

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58 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I agree. Regardless of how she is ruled, stacking or not, I think she is way to expensive. I don't understand FFGs fascination with command tokens. Officer Leia is far and away better than the commander IMO. Take her and Ahsoka if you really want the dial+token effect so badly for 5 points and grab a better commander.

Well now, wait. If they rule that you can use ostensibly double-token with Leia, that actually opens up some very interesting things.

For example;

1. The Yavaris Quad-Activation. Quadtivation? Quadcifixion? 

2. AFMK-2 Five Squadron FC activation.

3. The speed 3-0/0-3 navigate. Or you know, 1-4. Whateves.

4. The Uberpickle. (Basically whats going on now with mc80's but with it able to dial engineering up to 8. Or more...)

5. Double reroll conc fire on salvation. 

6. Just ludicrously good and thematic synergy with Raymus Antilles

And thats off the top of my head. I dunno if any of that stuff is worth the cost, but a lot it sure looks like fun.

 

 

 

Edited by Madaghmire

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16 minutes ago, Maturin said:

I'm using Leia in the tourney too.  Let's see how she does, though I suppose there may be a bit of a learning curve.

 

 I don't understand this Lyr - Leia's commands always work - so as long as you get the command you want, you'll get her benefit if you want.  100% of the time.  How often do you use 100% of an Admiral's power?  

Garm - so many tokens have gone unused when I take him...and if the ship's dead by turn 5 you don't get his benefit.

Mothma - if your ships stay at long range the first half of the game you've wasted half of the game not benefitting from her.

Rieekan - I hope you never need all your ships to benefit from his ability.

;)

 

I'm jesting a bit, of course.  But I think she may be a good admiral for not-overly-complex thinkers like me, who can't handle thinking about multiple commands/tokens in advance.  With Leia, it's one order at a time.  Simple!

Do you always use Leia though? Turn 1 will you use Leia? Will you use Leia if you need to use multiple commands? Can you chose to use leia if you have a CF token but not a Dial? What about engineering? Nav? The other Commander's are a constant. Yes her ability is always usable but every time you don't use it are you gaining value from her or losing value? 

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43 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Sigh.

Did I miss anybody?

So I took a look at the list and feel that Leia is BAD for that list. 

 

Reason. When are you going to navigate with those CR90's? Is it going to be a turn you need to move shields around? 

 

To each their own but I enjoy Dodonna. He does not mess with my fleet design much. 

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9 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Do you always use Leia though? Turn 1 will you use Leia? Will you use Leia if you need to use multiple commands? Can you chose to use leia if you have a CF token but not a Dial? What about engineering? Nav? The other Commander's are a constant. Yes her ability is always usable but every time you don't use it are you gaining value from her or losing value? 

I'm planning on using Leia turn one.  Absolutely.  If nothing else, I start at speed 2 and make my opponent wonder if I'm going to speed 0, or to speed 4, on my activation.  That's pure psychological gold, and I'm going to capitalize on it with my deployment (I hope).  Garm can do the same thing...but you're not taking Garm on anything that can go speed 4.  (Just wish I had more cr90's in my list to capitalize on this!)

 

I do take your point about the opportunity cost for using Leia...but since I forget to use the tokens I have half the time, I figure I might as well not bother with any, and still get the benefit!  Win win for me.

for better players, maybe not as much. :D

Edited by Maturin

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6 minutes ago, Maturin said:

I'm planning on using Leia turn one.  Absolutely.  If nothing else, I start at speed 2 and make my opponent wonder if I'm going to speed 0, or to speed 4, on my activation.  That's pure psychological gold, and I'm going to capitalize on it with my deployment (I hope).  Garm can do the same thing...but you're not taking Garm on anything that can go speed 4.

 

I do take your point about the opportunity cost for using Leia...but since I forget to use the tokens I have half the time, I figure I might as well not bother with any, and still get the benefit!  Win win for me.

for better players, maybe not as much. :D

You are like @Drasnighta then. Flexibility is not as important to you. 

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Initially, I was firmly in the "No double tokens" camp, but a thought occurred to me

Was it just me, or did anybody else have a "Well that's weird..." moment when first reading Leia's card? Specifically the "may not resolve another command this round" part. It just struck me as so awkwardly written, and it's been stuck in the back of my mind for a while now. I kept thinking it would have been much better written as, "may not spend a token this round". It's so much more concise and clear that way, so why didn't they write it like that?

Unless.... they wrote it the way they did on purpose.

I just can't find a justification for such awkward and bizarre writing unless they specifically wanted to make an exception for using a token that matches your super-dial. If they didn't want that exception, they could have written her card description so much more clearly. I know this isn't definitive evidence one way or another, but it's what put me in the "double token" side.

Still not sure if that's something I want though. Squadron 4 Yavaris and all the other shenanigans that potentially open up would make Leia quite the intimidating addition to Armada.

 

Edited by Pikeman84

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