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So, I'm sure most of us can easily wrap our heads around the mechanics that have been drastically changed and adapt to them without much of an issue.  What I'm wondering is if there some subtle changes that we might assume would work one way based on the way things worked in the past, and thus be easy to overlook.

One that I noticed is that now the attacker wins a battle at a province if they have *equal* or greater strength as the defender plus the province rather than needing to exceed the defender plus province strength.  If I hadn't been combing through trying to find something else, I might not have ever noticed until a new player called me out on it down the road.

Citation:  If their skill value less the defender’s total skill value, is equal to or higher than the strength value of the province they are attacking is equal to or higher than the strength value of the province they are attacking, the province becomes broken <announcement article>

Anyone have anything they want to add?

Bonus points for anyone who can find a citation for whether honor gain/loss for leaving play honorable or dishonorable is tied to the character's glory.

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Just now, Kakita Shiro said:

Not surprising that the attacker wins ties. It's like that in Thrones as well. Is it that way in A:NR?

Yeah, it just caught me by surprise because it wasn't that way in the old CCG, so I never even presumed to question it.

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3 minutes ago, Kakita Shiro said:

Not surprising that the attacker wins ties. It's like that in Thrones as well. Is it that way in A:NR?

The closest comparison I can think of is that Icebreakers need Strength equal to or greater than Ice Strength to affect that Ice.  So, yeah, meet or beat.

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From the product page on the changes from the old game:

Characters — Characters in Legend of the Five Rings: The Card Game take on a different form than the characters in the CCG. First, characters now feature different stats reflecting their military and political skill instead of the force and chi stats. These new skills are used in the revised conflict system that we discuss below. Characters no longer have honor requirements, and their personal honor is incorporated into their glory and the Honored / Dishonored status cards.

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9 minutes ago, Mirith said:

From the product page on the changes from the old game:

Characters — Characters in Legend of the Five Rings: The Card Game take on a different form than the characters in the CCG. First, characters now feature different stats reflecting their military and political skill instead of the force and chi stats. These new skills are used in the revised conflict system that we discuss below. Characters no longer have honor requirements, and their personal honor is incorporated into their glory and the Honored / Dishonored status cards.

Hmmmm, I saw that. It still seems rather implied that you gain or lose honor based on glory honorable or dishonorable status, but does not explicitly say that.

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10 minutes ago, Kiseki said:

Hmmmm, I saw that. It still seems rather implied that you gain or lose honor based on glory honorable or dishonorable status, but does not explicitly say that.

Agreed, but I bet this is why we thought that.

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The honor betting system.

Player A is on 2 Honor

Player B is on 6 Honor

Player B  knows that Player A can't bet more than 1 honor of Player A loses the game. So Player B knows he can bet 3 honor because Player A won't want to bet enough to make him lose.

Player A knows that Player B knows this, and can guess that Player B might bet 3 honor, so he can try and bet 3 also and get 3 cards for free.

This is circular and can go around forever, so betting honor when you are on low or high honor yourself will never be a straight forward decision!

I think I may have confused myself, but you catch my drift :D

Edited by Moto Subodei

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1 minute ago, hidasaurus said:

More of a simplification.. I haven't seen open and limited actions.  Makes it just a little easier to learn/teach.

If you examine the cards printed in Twenty Festivals, Thunderous Acclaim, and Evil Portents you'll notice that there were no Limited actions. Rumor was that they were already on their way out of Onyx.

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Non-unique characters have non-unique names. The Samurai trait has been replaced with Bushi.

Subtle? Perhaps. But oddly enough these are the two changes that, had they not been made, I might have been willing to pass on this edition.

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7 minutes ago, Kakita Shiro said:

If you examine the cards printed in Twenty Festivals, Thunderous Acclaim, and Evil Portents you'll notice that there were no Limited actions. Rumor was that they were already on their way out of Onyx.

Thanks for the info and interesting to hear.  Yeah I only played a brief span around Celestial ed

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5 minutes ago, Kakita Shiro said:

Man, that guy has to bow? His stat line is looks pretty good. I guess you can straighten him after a Water conflict.

Well his ability is quite strong, so bowing is for balancing issues I believe.

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1 hour ago, Moto Subodei said:

The honor betting system.

Player A is on 2 Honor

Player B is on 6 Honor

Player B  knows that Player A can't bet more than 1 honor of Player A loses the game. So Player B knows he can bet 3 honor because Player A won't want to bet enough to make him lose.

Player A knows that Player B knows this, and can guess that Player B might bet 3 honor, so he can try and bet 3 also and get 3 cards for free.

This is circular and can go around forever, so betting honor when you are on low or high honor yourself will never be a straight forward decision!

I think I may have confused myself, but you catch my drift :D

I love this. 

Being  a Scorpion is only kind of related to that. 

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1 hour ago, Moto Subodei said:

The honor betting system.

Player A is on 2 Honor

Player B is on 6 Honor

Player B  knows that Player A can't bet more than 1 honor of Player A loses the game. So Player B knows he can bet 3 honor because Player A won't want to bet enough to make him lose.

Player A knows that Player B knows this, and can guess that Player B might bet 3 honor, so he can try and bet 3 also and get 3 cards for free.

This is circular and can go around forever, so betting honor when you are on low or high honor yourself will never be a straight forward decision!

I think I may have confused myself, but you catch my drift :D

So I poisoned both with iocaine powder.

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33 minutes ago, Kakita Shiro said:

Man, that guy has to bow? His stat line is looks pretty good. I guess you can straighten him after a Water conflict.

It was one of my least favorite mechanics in the old CCG. I hated having a guy with an ability or spell, but also had a good stat line (which didn't come often in Phoenix, especially towards the end), that required you to bow him to use.

I really hope his ability is rare and good, but from what I've seen of the previews, a ranged 2 attack that requires to bow isn't that good (or worth using, save for maybe key moments) when the ability is on a unique, "big badass" personality like this guy, with what looks to be a great stat line.

I greatly dislike trading a character's complete usefulness for just an alright ability.

That being said, if the new ranged/melee attacks are that strong balance wise (or synergize to be really strong, say with anti-bow/from home mechanics), I could see it being a fair trade.

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6 minutes ago, Isawa Kioshi said:

It was one of my least favorite mechanics in the old CCG. I hated having a guy with an ability or spell, but also had a good stat line (which didn't come often in Phoenix, especially towards the end), that required you to bow him to use.

I really hope his ability is rare and good, but from what I've seen of the previews, a ranged 2 attack that requires to bow isn't that good (or worth using, save for maybe key moments) when the ability is on a unique, "big badass" personality like this guy, with what looks to be a great stat line.

I greatly dislike trading a character's complete usefulness for just an alright ability.

That being said, if the new ranged/melee attacks are that strong balance wise (or synergize to be really strong, say with anti-bow/from home mechanics), I could see it being a fair trade.

Out of the dunno 15 personalities that have been spoiled so far, only 3 cost 3+ Fate, and the ability doesn't care of how many extra Fate you have payed for the Character... So I would say it's quite potent.

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2 hours ago, Kiseki said:

Hmmmm, I saw that. It still seems rather implied that you gain or lose honor based on glory honorable or dishonorable status, but does not explicitly say that.

The Read More section on the product page tells us that a honored personality gives honor and a dishonored one removes honor. It's under the effect of the Fire Ring.

"Fire — Choose a character in play and honor or dishonor that character. (Honoring or dishonoring a character has a potent effect on that character’s skill, and causes you to gain or lose honor when that character leaves play.)"

What I haven't seen anyone mention is this instance when conducting conflicts - "because undefended provinces are easily broken and you’ll lose honor for failing to defend your lands". I'm guessing you lose 1 honor when you don't declare at least a defender. The "easily broken" thing is that the opponent doesn't have to worry about any character's military/political value. It is an interesting way to force more interaction between players but also to teach some possible restraint. It also plays into the idea of risk/reward that we've seen in other aspects of the game.

 

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1 minute ago, Kubernes said:

The Read More section on the product page tells us that a honored personality gives honor and a dishonored one removes honor. It's under the effect of the Fire Ring.

"Fire — Choose a character in play and honor or dishonor that character. (Honoring or dishonoring a character has a potent effect on that character’s skill, and causes you to gain or lose honor when that character leaves play.)"

What I haven't seen anyone mention is this instance when conducting conflicts - "because undefended provinces are easily broken and you’ll lose honor for failing to defend your lands". I'm guessing you lose 1 honor when you don't declare at least a defender. The "easily broken" thing is that the opponent doesn't have to worry about any character's military/political value. It is an interesting way to force more interaction between players but also to teach some possible restraint. It also plays into the idea of risk/reward that we've seen in other aspects of the game.

 

Right, but what I was asking is where it specifically ties the honor gained or lost to their Glory. For all we know it could be one honor or two honor or any number.

 

 I noticed that part about honor for provinces too, didn't know what to make of it. Intriguing at the very least. It will be very interesting if you can take a province to dishonor someone out.

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