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Card Layout and aesthetics Question.

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4 hours ago, WHW said:

It helps people like me, who are terrible at perceiving colors, to have yet another way of quickly differentiating between cards without having to read them.

 

4 hours ago, Myrion said:

Oh, colorblindness, I hadn't even thought of that! Also something good design takes into account.

THIS.  I don't want to have to spend a quarter of my game asking my opponent if that's blue or purple.

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15 minutes ago, Nagori-A-Go-Go said:

Unpopular opinion: the old card templates were dull in both design and color choice. The illustrations on the cards always popped for me because everything else looked so dull.

I have been noticing more and more games allowing stark white onto their cards. Look at the Ashes: Rise of the Phoenixborn cards.

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7 hours ago, soullos said:

Nothing wrong with expressing dislike of something. You chose to come in here and reply instead of ignoring it. *shrug*

Absolutely.

And yes, I could and probably should have just ignored this persons expression of dislike. Unfortunately as a human I had reached my (admittedly low) limit of seeing this kind of post(rant).

But there's nothing wrong with me expressing my dislike right? After all, we both chose to come in here and reply instead of just ignoring it. *shrug*

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7 hours ago, BayushiCroy said:

I have been noticing more and more games allowing stark white onto their cards. Look at the Ashes: Rise of the Phoenixborn cards.

I actually really dislike the card design in Ashes.

 

I don't really know how to describe why I don't like it, but it just seems... fake?

Like the card art doesn't capture the essence of the characters or actions, just puts them there in a fancy pose, with the card details just there to frame the picture correctly.

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As someone mentioned at our forum, it just will look silly when you notice some 30+ years guys (and majority of CCG players reached this point) that use these silly PINK tokens on cards with childish PINK numbers. I think that Fate tokens will be replaced first with new acrylic ones.

Edited by kempy

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18 minutes ago, kempy said:

As someone mentioned at our forum, it just will look silly when you notice some 30+ years guys (and majority of CCG players reached this point) that use these silly PINK tokens on cards with childish PINK numbers. I think that Fate tokens will be replaced first with new acrylic ones.

I don't think it would look silly at all. I don't know how it is for you, but there are many places/countries where men (even 30+ years ones) wear pink clothes without any eyebrow raised.

Edited by KerenRhys

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Yeah, this is highly subjective. 

If for some people, game has to look "very manly" they are totally free to switch tokens out for some of their, use alternative dials/counters, proper sleeves and mats.

I guess what needs to be kept is clear design.
Card types need to be clearly distinguished, even if someone is colorblind.

Personally, I am going to use blood red / gold counters as I always do with card games, probably a honor counter(dial) as well.

15 minutes ago, kempy said:

As someone mentioned at our forum, it just will look silly when you notice some 30+ years guys (and majority of CCG players reached this point) that use these silly PINK tokens on cards with childish PINK numbers. I think that Fate tokens will be replaced first with new acrylic ones.

For some people... 30+ year old sitting with cards will always look silly. Its a matter of the point of view.
Some people will feel uncomfortable with flower tokens, some will not. I am not a fan of those, but it kinda fits the design and the world presentation, that just my opinion though.
 

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They tend to call it "salmon" though ;)

But hell, from the outside we're grown adults playing card games, don't you know those are for kids only? aka We already look silly to those outside the hobby, so why worry?

Besides, it's not like a little pink is something to be ashamed of, anyway...

Edited by Myrion

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If they care about "silly pink", I wonder why they don't care about playing "silly children card games". 

I love the choice of cherry blossoms as the dominant aesthetics, it fits the samurai genre very well. 

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18 minutes ago, KerenRhys said:

I don't think it would look silly at all. I don't know how it is for you, but there are many places/countries where men (even 30+ years ones) wear pink clothes without any eyebrow raised.

So it's cultural difference then. Where i live pink color is a (little) girls stuff mainly and you nearly never spot a male adult in pink clothes.

Edited by kempy

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17 minutes ago, kempy said:

So it's cultural difference then.

Exactly! You hit the spot dead on! When playing L5R, you play in Rokugan, in a different culture. Now, Rokugan is a wide land full of humans and therefore opinions. Some will want to act more manly and some do not care about it at all. However, one thing is for sure, in this Rokugan (ie, FFG's Rokugan), pink cherry blossoms are neither, they are the cultural representation of mono no aware (ie, Fate); and anyone belittling this symbol is asking for Celestial punishment!

In all seriousness, picking another colour for one's own Fate tokens is fine if both parties in the game agree to it; nonetheless, taxing the pink tokens of silliness will be viewed as insulting to certain players, and for no other reason than different tastes in colours. A French idiom translates to: Tastes and colours are each their own; you can not judge what someone else likes because you can not see with their eyes nor feel what they do.

Let's just agree that for the majority of samurai in this Rokugan pink is a perfectly acceptable and honourable colour and that for some it rings a different bell.

Edited by Mirumoto Kuroniten
Spelin... Spellli... Sppell... Words. Good.

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13 minutes ago, kempy said:

So it's cultural difference then. Where i live pink color is a (little) girls stuff mainly and you nearly never spot a male adult in pink clothes.

Well, it's never too late in life to get rid of the prejudices :) 

Kidding aside, I was raised in the same gender stereotypes (go go 80ies), but then again wearing pink shirts was THE fashion the last 5 years for business man...so times change, cultural values might change, too.

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36 minutes ago, kempy said:

As someone mentioned at our forum, it just will look silly when you notice some 30+ years guys (and majority of CCG players reached this point) that use these silly PINK tokens on cards with childish PINK numbers. I think that Fate tokens will be replaced first with new acrylic ones.

People will think whatever they want for whichever reasons: "Silly grampa playing children's card game!", "You are too old for this manure!:P Video games were a thing for a select group, nowadays it has been normalized by the society and new technologies.

People will see the pink, they will see the big blue/red ring tokens, they will see the card backgrounds,... If they want to judge me and the game because of some pink in a few parts (that totally fits, by the way), it will not be my problem. :lol: Certainly will not allow other people's preferences to force me to use alternatives. I love all the tokens I have seen and will use them. :)

Plus I played pinkish Unicorn so whatever.

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Kempy, we're talking about this sort of thing, to provide an example:
mondo-c3006-2.jpg

To be sure, pink is commonly associated with little girls in the western world (these days - it used to be blue was girls and pink was boys!), but there are plenty of variations on pink that are perfectly acceptable for men, too. 
To me, the cherry blossom pink is much closer to the pastel pinks that men wear than the screaming pink that little girls prefer but more than anything else, it just doesn't bother me. Why should it?

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The tokens aren't pink simply for the sake of being pink.  They're pink because they depict cherry blossoms, which are pink!  Cherry blossoms themselves have a place in Rokugani culture, and dismissing them for being too flowery and unmanly would be like me dismissing a samurai's poetry just because the word "poetry" might conjure images of coffeehouse beatniks!

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8 minutes ago, Talaris1 said:

Well, it's never too late in life to get rid of the prejudices :) 

Kidding aside, I was raised in the same gender stereotypes (go go 80ies), but then again wearing pink shirts was THE fashion the last 5 years for business man...so times change, cultural values might change, too.

kempy be like : xT8qB8FD6EfSa2B0Ck.gif

Don't you worry. If the game will be successful and popular, people will get over many things and minor differencies.
As a "reward" we will force kempy to wear pink kimono during kotei ;)                      j/k

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I can only assume that the reasoning behind changing the card design was the same as changing the game design: this isn't your ancestor's L5R.  Like a good song cover, they're making it their own, in every way possible. 

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18 hours ago, BayushiCroy said:

Well attachments have the name on the left because they modify military and political stats which are on the left hand side of the card. Meaning they are meant to splay on the left hand side under the character. 

I actually really dig it. Also holdings are similar I believe. 

I absolutely LOVE the circular logic in this post. 

OP: Why couldn't they just kept all the stats at the top?
Answer: Because they made attachments with stats on the side so it lines up with the character stats.
Me: But if all the stats were at the top... gah... forget it.

:D

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33 minutes ago, Sparks Duh said:

I absolutely LOVE the circular logic in this post. 

OP: Why couldn't they just kept all the stats at the top?
Answer: Because they made attachments with stats on the side so it lines up with the character stats.
Me: But if all the stats were at the top... gah... forget it.

:D

The problem with all stats on the top is that most people stack with the personality at the top, with attachments going down, so the only way to see the numbers is to create a row, instead of sliding the next card under the personality. Since it's more natural to read from the base (personality) down (the attachments). Putting the numbers on the side, is an interesting choice, allowing you to still keep the natural read progression, as well as conserving space, but just laying them a bit off to the left.

At least that's how I understand the design decision.

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Just now, RandomJC said:

The problem with all stats on the top is that most people stack with the personality at the top, with attachments going down, so the only way to see the numbers is to create a row, instead of sliding the next card under the personality. Since it's more natural to read from the base (personality) down (the attachments). Putting the numbers on the side, is an interesting choice, allowing you to still keep the natural read progression, as well as conserving space, but just laying them a bit off to the left.

At least that's how I understand the design decision.

Two things. In the CCG, you slid the card under the peep with the stats showing at the top so that it was easy to read, duh. Why anyone would put it the way you described is beyond me.

And putting them off to the LEFT side is the same exact thing because it is NOT the natural read progression to look at modifiers BEFORE the base stat. 

Your argument doesn't hold up, bud.

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44 minutes ago, Sparks Duh said:

I absolutely LOVE the circular logic in this post. 

OP: Why couldn't they just kept all the stats at the top?
Answer: Because they made attachments with stats on the side so it lines up with the character stats.
Me: But if all the stats were at the top... gah... forget it.

:D

The only reason I could see (other than simply because the design team decided they liked the way it looked), would be maybe they figured each player tends to have more horizontal tablespace than vertical?  Though, that only really makes sense if you're stacking a lot of attachments on a single person, and I'm not sure how often that's really going to come into play.

So...<shrug>

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Oh god... I got Kempy liking my posts!!! What the hell is this world coming to? lol

Just to clarify tho... I don't mind the new card layout at all. I think it's a nice subtle change that really has no impact on how you play. I just thought it would be funny to point out the circular logic that people had. lol

Edited by Sparks Duh

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