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VernonBroche

Do some people seem overly whiny/negative about this game?

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18 minutes ago, C2K said:

But this is not a Clan Wars "alternative universe".  What they write will be canon and will be the story going forward,  If this does go into Clan War, they will be overwriting the previous Clan War.  Sure they might be judged against the old, but it won't matter because what FFG writes  is the truth. 

 

There is such a thing as a canonical alternate universe. Happens all the bloody time in media, when comics and TV series and film franchises get rebooted.. The previous Clan War is not "overwritten;" it's set aside. FFG's new timeline is not going to erase all documentary evidence of the AEG version such that no one will ever be able to read about or use it again.

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1 minute ago, Dovla said:

Now when i look back on the old game, i realize how much mechanical baggage it had. Honor/dishonor struggle, turtling and army stalemate, explaining the rules to new players ("why cant i just attack your personality with mine, im tired of counting"), keyword MESS on the cards, goldscrew, holdings all over the place, snowballing, honor requirements, enlightment victory (the way to achieve it, clout/conspiracy/poison tokens...

I'm so glad these things are streamlined.

 

Changes are hard for people.

I raise you with rolling a die when you go to time, getting owned by breech of ettiquete because non of your personalities can come into play, cringing as your unicorn or crab opponent flipped yet another turn two chag's/ Kuon, rare non- unique personalities. 

Yeah i am ready for a reset...the only thing I am not looking forward to is the community's hate when I win worlds and use my storyline prize to have kachicko tortured and killed by the Senpet (you thought we forgot about what you did to Gohei didn't you...)

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Why are people whiny/negative on the Internet?

It's the internet. And they're people. 

Why the strong feelings for the game? 

Well, each person above has given their specific and personal take. I, like Tetsuro got into this game young and worked on it. To be specific, I started the year after it came out, picked up the RPG immediately, and have played both with fervor ever since. 

In 2002-3ish, at merely 20-21, I was able to work on the 2d Edition RPG with Rich Wulf and Shawn Carman et al. 

Later, I was able to do more work on a great number of the 4th Edition RPG books under Shawn and Rob Hobart alongside other beautiful Story Team members like Robert "Spooky" Denton, Maxime Lemaire, Mari Anne Murdock, and Fred Wan. 

I got onto the Story Team the year, the very year, before it died. It was a dream that the 13 year old version of myself would have lost all bodily control of himself just thinking about. I got to affect the game behind the scenes and then...poof. Just like that. Gone. 

But honestly, all that aside, this game has generated some of the greatest fans across ANY game. Players have given me cards for free to start me off. They've schooled me, taught me, bought me beers, and become deep, ever-lasting friends that let you crash on the floor of their house (looking at you Sparks). The fanbase of this game has been driven in part by the "win a tournament and you get to affect the story" aspect that drew so many into L5R from the word go. You only have to look at the ridiculous bounties (Ex: Martino's $1000 bounty at the last GenCon) to know how deeply they care. 

This game, its people, and everything about it, is beautiful. 

I hope Fantasy Flight is able to continue that, but I'm not worried because it will not all be on them. Many shoulders will be available. 

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2 minutes ago, Kinzen said:

 

There is such a thing as a canonical alternate universe. Happens all the bloody time in media, when comics and TV series and film franchises get rebooted.. The previous Clan War is not "overwritten;" it's set aside. FFG's new timeline is not going to erase all documentary evidence of the AEG version such that no one will ever be able to read about or use it again.

Not physically, but in time it will be the prevailing thought.  No one will care about how the events unfolded 20 years ago, when the events are unfolding in the now.  Its going to rewrite the game(unless for some reason this game utterly fails, but I don't see that). 

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2 hours ago, Kinzen said:

 

There is such a thing as a canonical alternate universe. Happens all the bloody time in media, when comics and TV series and film franchises get rebooted.. The previous Clan War is not "overwritten;" it's set aside. FFG's new timeline is not going to erase all documentary evidence of the AEG version such that no one will ever be able to read about or use it again.

...and are already in the setting, as per the book which first explained all of the different realms.

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Just now, Tonbo Karasu said:

...and are already in the setting, as per the book which first explained all of the different realms.

I had fun sending the PCs in my Togashi Dynasty AU campaign to a strange dream realm . . . where Hantei had become the first Emperor, and Togashi instead founded the Dragon Clan. :-D

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I have always had a love/hate relationship with the CCG. Since its release in 1995 when I was in college it has both been my favorite and lest favorite part of the world of Rokugan. Soon after the release of the L5R RPG I drifted from the CCG to the RPG and never turned back (Played the CCG till the end of the Clan Wars then left)

Love:

1. It gave us what IMHO is the best fantasy work to have ever been created.

2. Was an escape from the Magic clones that where common at the time.

3. Started my love of the great Phoenix Clan

4. Allowed players to influence the game in ways that had never been tried before which to me was both good and bad (see below)

5. Made the creation of the L5R RPG a financial reality

Hate:

1. Allowed players to influence the game. This turned out to be a double-edged sword. While it allow for players to effect the out come of the Clan Wars it also caused a string of nonsensical stories and events in the game.

2. Gave all the power to only one set of gamers in the fandom. While this is more AEG's fault then the CCG's directly, RPGers where at the whims of the CCGers for most of the games existence.

3. The multiple resets to the setting. Lets face it L5R the CCG was just that, a CCG. The main problem with a CCG is for it to work there must be two things. A Conflict and a Bad Guy. Where the RPG is at its high potential during times of peace, an CCG has to have a reason for multiple clans to be locked in open conflict with each other. This has lead to IMHO multiple shoehorned plots and red-cons that at times make just to have a conflict and a baddie for the current arc of cards.

4. A continuation of point three is the Faction creep. Another hallmark of a CCG is that it has to give you a reason to by new cards such as Magic cycles and setting changed. One way this was done was to create new factions in the arc wither it made sense to the story (Naga, Yoritomo's Alliance, Toturi's Army) or not (Ratlings, Spider Clan). Some where necessary to the plot and overall story while others where just fan service.

There are more items on both sides of the aisle but don't have all day LOL.

Al that said L5R the CCG hold the a place in my heart similar to D&D (except I utter hate D&D). 

D&D gave us the world of RPG's as we know them today and L5R CCG gave us the world of Rokugan and My favorite RPG in the whole world.

 

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13 hours ago, VernonBroche said:

This is interesting. Can you explain why L5R is so important to you? I never knew people connected this deeply with it in the past, but I guess the setting expanded across a CCG, and PnP RPG and some other things?

The biggest part about L5R people looking from the outside in was the camaraderie and involvement the players had in the game.  At GenCon every year, we had huge clan dinners where staff would come to talk over "secret" spoilers.  I remember my first year telling Adrian Burton how I always thought it would be an interesting idea to make one of the Mantis (my clan) strongholds a fleet of ships or something.  The next year, we're talking and he whips out his phone and says, "You made this."  I see Aramasu's Legacy.

Aramasuslegacy.jpg.c8a4de7ca9f573f35f4094f083458965.jpg

 

You also have the involvement as a group.  I remember people putting up bounties to influence tournament decisions.  Essentially, if I won, someone might offer me $100 to choose a certain outcome.  Like having Yoritomo becoming a Kami for instance.  Or there would be group voting on how the clan might move forward in that Kotei (tournament) season.

It’s all about player involvement and the interactions with others that really made this game shine.  People seemed less focused on playing the winningest deck and instead focused on what they felt was best about their clan.  The players were top notch.  I in 5 years of playing I had 1 or 2 bad matches compared to the 1 or 2 per event for Magic.

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41 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Bounties weren't just about cash though.

One tourney I was at, someone had taken a Heroes of Rokugan set, split it up by Clan, and offered the cards as bounties for the Bottom of Clan.

It was pretty elaborate.  I remember the Mantis/Crane feud where the Mantis were paying for the defense of the empire (to protect Kyuden Ashinagabachi specifically) while the Crane would match bids to destroy provinces to try and destroy the Mantis.  I remember cards being offered, cash, buying someone a beer, etc.

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I think people just dont like to hear that their beloved L5R was outdated (not talking about the events now, simply the game itself). It was clunky at times, a beautiful gem of a game but outdated (and a bit unbalanced at times). I'm glad they didnt clone it, and i'm glad they kept so much from the original that it still is L5R. Personally it is from the previews exactly what i hoped for, they even kept the 2 deck approach... seriously people need to understand that sometimes more modern mechanics / designs are just needed to make a game more playable. The more than honor the old one with what we saw so far, plus FFG's tournament scene is a godsend for this game.

It's like Magic - i'm glad i played it when it was in its haydays, but i will never play it again, CCG's are dead to me.

Edited by Lancezh

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44 minutes ago, Lancezh said:

I think people just dont like to hear that their beloved L5R was outdated (not talking about the events now, simply the game itself). It was clunky at times, a beautiful gem of a game but outdated (and a bit unbalanced at times). I'm glad they didnt clone it, and i'm glad they kept so much from the original that it still is L5R. Personally it is from the previews exactly what i hoped for, they even kept the 2 deck approach... seriously people need to understand that sometimes more modern mechanics / designs are just needed to make a game more playable. The more than honor the old one with what we saw so far, plus FFG's tournament scene is a godsend for this game.

It's like Magic - i'm glad i played it when it was in its haydays, but i will never play it again, CCG's are dead to me.

The 2-deck system was a pleasant surprise, as I honestly thought they would go with a single deck.  This wasn't a deal-breaker for me the same way it was for some others, but I'm still happy to see it return.

I'm not big on tournaments, but I do think the reboot and its hype will help revitalize the community.  My group kind of dwindled throughout Ivory and 20F, to the point where there are now just two of us who still meet most every week to play.  A couple weeks ago the owner of our game store told us they're planning some big stuff for the release of the new game, and that they've had enough people asking about it that we should see a significant revival!

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13 hours ago, Tetsuro said:

 poured my heart and soul into cards that will never be played

Have to say it's no truth. Personally i know at least 20+ people who enjoy(ed) this stuff. And i still haven't heard any totally wrong opinions about them.

 

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Don't read too much into criticism of L5R. The game has a history of whining players.  I can remember people writing forum posts about how broken X clan is 17 years ago. Or how Y event didn't jive with Z characteristic of some personality / family / clan 19 years ago.

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I started playing around the end of Gold, and while I loved it, the game had some seriously wonky mechanics that made getting new players into the game rough.

Obviously I need to see the rules in play, but so far I like the changes. Fate is great mechanic and makes a lot of sense for an Asian-themed game.

I think the newer rules should make it easier to get new players into it.

I'm certainly glad the old canon is gone, things got really off-rails there at the end, and again, the reboot allows new players the ability to get in on the ground floor.

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1 hour ago, Nickciufi said:

Don't read too much into criticism of L5R. The game has a history of whining players.  I can remember people writing forum posts about how broken X clan is 17 years ago. Or how Y event didn't jive with Z characteristic of some personality / family / clan 19 years ago.

https://imperialassembly.com/oracle/#cardid=658,#hashid=821aaeea61b18bdf34f2131067552210,#cardcount=1

Also, sometimes Trolls won the tournaments.

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4 minutes ago, Mirith said:

Trolls won the internet?

To be fair, I would have voted for that too.

AFAIK it was not internet poll, back in 2006. Just analog (post) one. ;) 

http://www.jadehand.com/tourneys/index2.php?year=2006 and look for 

 

mantismon.jpg Imperial Herald Vote: Create a Card mantisright.jpg righttop.jpg
Story Effects:
Card: Ayamari
Story Point: The Mantis will receive a kenku ninja.


Note: This is an Imperial Herald vote, and thus only open to members of the Imperial Assembly.

In our continuing player poll, we're offering Herald readers another chance to have a lasting effect on the ongoing L5R Storyline. This one is a bit more light-hearted than most. This poll provides the opportunity to create a new and unique character who will become a future personality.

Simply choose one option from each of the following three questions. A new personality will appear in a future expansion, based on your response to these questions.

1. What is the new character's race?

A. Naga
B. Ogre
C. Kenku
D. Ningyo
E. Kappa

3. What is the new character's clan affiliation?

A. Crab
B. Crane
C. Dragon
D. Lion
E. Mantis
F. Phoenix
G. Scorpion
H. Unicorn
I. Shadowlands
J. Nezumi

3. Pick a trait for the new character:

A. Samurai
B. Shugenja
C. Courtier
D. Ninja
Edited by kempy

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8 minutes ago, Dovla said:

This is in fact, hilarious. Part of the baggage that accumulated over the years tho, resulting in spider clan, kenku almost becoming imperial bride etc.

Sure, that was absurd pick, but you can't generalize and put all of them in same bag. And AEG did lot of internal jokes and easter eggs with such cards. That was also part of this game environment.

I didn't played back then but first Ratling Stronghold was supposedly also an effect of players pick.

Edited by kempy

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