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Sybreed

A different take on Devastator

27 posts in this topic

Instead of the current wording, how about "Add a blue die for each hull zone without shields once every turn when you attack from your front hull zone"

Keeps the spirit of the title which is that the more damage you take, the more dangerous you become. But, at least when you're at 0 shield, you still have a chance to fight (vs when you're out of tokens, you're pretty much dead at that point).

Or, another take I had in mind was:

"If a hull zone is at 0 shield, add a blue die to that hull zone"

Kind of similar, but probably OP IMO.

These were something I thought of quick and would like to comment further, but I really need to go, so sorry if the post is kind of short!

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2 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

"If a hull zone is at 0 shield, add a blue die to that hull zone"

I like this idea.... it would make taking leading shots hella more constructive for the ISD I

I've had a hard time finding a good niche for devastator on the ISD I. 

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1 minute ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I like this idea.... it would make taking leading shots hella more constructive for the ISD I

I've had a hard time finding a good niche for devastator on the ISD I. 

and it would make the ISD-1 a bigger threat at all ranges. It could be OP but at the same time, the title is freakingly expansive, so why the hell not.

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5 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

and it would make the ISD-1 a bigger threat at all ranges. It could be OP but at the same time, the title is freakingly expansive, so why the hell not.

exactly... at long range with expanded arms you could do 4 die out the front or the sides (with con fire).... that's not terrible.... gives you options until you get close, by then your shields are down and you can get your rerolls with LS.... maybe even take gunnery teams instead of ordiance experts since you'll get that reroll from leading shots... add some fighter/sloane shenanigans and suddenly it actually seems really good.  

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Hm. Maybe. I've been trying to get Devastator to work with Commander Vader. I can usually blow both redirects consistently just as I lose all front and side shields. This change would slightly improve that performance. 

 

The specific build is simply ISD1/Devastator/Flight Controllers/Expanded Hangar

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5 hours ago, Church14 said:

Hm. Maybe. I've been trying to get Devastator to work with Commander Vader. I can usually blow both redirects consistently just as I lose all front and side shields. This change would slightly improve that performance. 

 

The specific build is simply ISD1/Devastator/Flight Controllers/Expanded Hangar

I find that Motti is the most consistent with Dev as it offsets the loss of tokens more effectively.  Alternatively,  I would take Ozzel to control the engagement zone and reduce the incoming damage while using tokens for regular defensive purposes. 

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6 hours ago, Sybreed said:

when you're out of tokens, you're pretty much dead at that point

Well, both redirect tokens are rather trash once your shields are gone, which should happen by mid-game unless facing Xi7. No loss there (except repairing shields becomes less reliable).

Choosing to also burn contain and even brace certainly hampers your survivability, but if the ISD is doing it's job properly you should be destroying its targets. Therefore it and Vader uses the 'best defence is a good offence' approach.

You probably shouldn't be burning your brace and contain if in a fight against a tanky MC80 that can weather the storm and punish you next turn. Not great against Rieekan either.

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8 hours ago, Sybreed said:

when you're out of tokens, you're pretty much dead at that point.

 

This is where the real tough part of Devastator comes in.  When you're out of Tokens, is when you should be in the best position to attack which should greatly reduce the threat of incoming fire.

Devastator requires an extreme juggling act of using your defense tokens and controlling your engagement to maximize damage output while minimizing damage input.  This is a key reason why I don't use Vader.  Vader requires that you sacrifice defensive power to attack, and I want Devastator to be reducing damage whenever possible.  That's how I ensure that it survives to make those attacks and then finishes the game alive.

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4 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

This is where the real tough part of Devastator comes in.  When you're out of Tokens, is when you should be in the best position to attack which should greatly reduce the threat of incoming fire.

Devastator requires an extreme juggling act of using your defense tokens and controlling your engagement to maximize damage output while minimizing damage input.  This is a key reason why I don't use Vader.  Vader requires that you sacrifice defensive power to attack, and I want Devastator to be reducing damage whenever possible.  That's how I ensure that it survives to make those attacks and then finishes the game alive.

JJ will do this title shine. I know it. Not tried yet but pretty sure... I mean what JJ cannot make shine?:D

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5 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

JJ will do this title shine. I know it. Not tried yet but pretty sure... I mean what JJ cannot make shine?:D

I've thought about it, but the issues Devastator has aren't necessarily issues of maneuver and on-target positioning.  The ISD definitely manages this fine on its own, IF you know what you're doing and deploy well.  The issues are pulling back out after that critical maximum damage pass.  And Motti makes that extraction possible.

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9 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

I've thought about it, but the issues Devastator has aren't necessarily issues of maneuver and on-target positioning.  The ISD definitely manages this fine on its own, IF you know what you're doing and deploy well.  The issues are pulling back out after that critical maximum damage pass.  And Motti makes that extraction possible.

Motti is sooooo booooring!:P

I know what you say. I think JJ could help helping to escape from deadly shots when Devastator cannot stand more heavy damage. Motti and JJ could do the same through two differents ways. Motti give extra hull, JJ could remove some dice. Motti is guaranteed of course and sure better if we think just on Devastator but depending on the rest of the fleet JJ could be a good idea. The boost that JJ gives to carriers is amazing and Devastator keeps its 4 squadron value. ;)

btw Did someone try Motti+RBD ISDs yet? Not necesarily at tournament level.

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2 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Motti is sooooo booooring!:P

I know what you say. I think JJ could help helping to escape from deadly shots when Devastator cannot stand more heavy damage. Motti and JJ could do the same through two differents ways. Motti give extra hull, JJ could remove some dice. Motti is guaranteed of course and sure better if we think just on Devastator but depending on the rest of the fleet JJ could be a good idea. The boost that JJ gives to carriers is amazing and Devastator keeps its 4 squadron value. ;)

btw Did someone try Motti+RBD ISDs yet? Not necesarily at tournament level.

They're not.  I knocked one out about 2 weeks ago from full health with a Demo triple tap.  Though in fairness I did have the benefit of Most Wanted.  Didn' really need it though.

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I found that Tagge lets you swop from using a single redirect token to asingle brace token at the start of the fifth. 

As usual with Tagge. Timing isnt perfect on this

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1 hour ago, Ginkapo said:

I found that Tagge lets you swop from using a single redirect token to asingle brace token at the start of the fifth. 

As usual with Tagge. Timing isnt perfect on this

Who is playing Devastator with tokens on round 5?  Honestly,  if you have your tokens on round 4, something had probably gone wrong. Or incredibly right. 

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7 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

This is where the real tough part of Devastator comes in.  When you're out of Tokens, is when you should be in the best position to attack which should greatly reduce the threat of incoming fire.

Devastator requires an extreme juggling act of using your defense tokens and controlling your engagement to maximize damage output while minimizing damage input.  This is a key reason why I don't use Vader.  Vader requires that you sacrifice defensive power to attack, and I want Devastator to be reducing damage whenever possible.  That's how I ensure that it survives to make those attacks and then finishes the game alive.

That's the thing. Most other titles don't require such juggling in order to use their effect...

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15 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

That's the thing. Most other titles don't require such juggling in order to use their effect...

Yeah but anyone who rolled 10+ dice once knows that his matches won't be the same again.

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32 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Yeah but anyone who rolled 10+ dice once knows that his matches won't be the same again.

by the time you're out of tokens, unless you delibarately spend them all by turn 2 or 3, you won't have targets in front of you again...

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9 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

by the time you're out of tokens, unless you delibarately spend them all by turn 2 or 3, you won't have targets in front of you again...

I meant "again" referring to other matches, not during the same match. 

The first time I played Devastator it didn't work. It didn't work never actually but Devastator is always around cause I want to roll those dice and kill things and win matches with it. Is the hardest title to make it work? Probably but who can refuse the chance of rolling the biggest shot of the game? I will do it work. I don't know how but I will do.

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6 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

I meant "again" referring to other matches, not during the same match. 

The first time I played Devastator it didn't work. It didn't work never actually but Devastator is always around cause I want to roll those dice and kill things and win matches with it. Is the hardest title to make it work? Probably but who can refuse the chance of rolling the biggest shot of the game? I will do it work. I don't know how but I will do.

oh, I thought you meant "the match in which you shoot 10 dice WILL NEVER BE THE SAME FOR YOUR OPPONENT" xD

 

I still think it's too hard to pull off to make the title worth 10 points. If you go with the no-shield requirement, there's at least more chances of you surviving the match. My experience with an ISD is once it's losing tokens, it's gone in a turn or 2.

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11 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

My experience with an ISD is once it's losing tokens, it's gone in a turn or 2.

It support the ISD as the best ship as long as the other ships are gone before losing their tokens.:P:D

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7 hours ago, Sybreed said:

That's the thing. Most other titles don't require such juggling in order to use their effect...

I think they take as much juggling,  just the pattern and setup are more obvious.  A key reason most of my Devastator lists include Demolisher is because in addition to Demolisher being really good,  it's a threat my opponents see coming.   Since they see it coming,  I can use it to control the match to make Devastator functional.  Just like a DeMSU fleet uses multiple threats to make Demolisher suddenly less dangerous the moment before it attacks,  I use Demo and other ships to make my plans for Devastator less obvious and force my opponent to respond to several incoming threats that should be perceived as equally dangerous. 

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So if I had to change Devastator to work primarily with the ISD1, my change would be:

At the end of the Attack Step, discard a Defense Token to make one additional attack against an enemy ship or squadron in close range.  When attacking a ship,  use the battery armament of your side arcs.

This would keep it powerful but with  negative costs (must lose the token) while still making it clear what the effect is (an additional attack), what the intent is (sacrifice defense to drastically improve offense),  and how to avoid it (stay at medium range or further). 

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17 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

So if I had to change Devastator to work primarily with the ISD1, my change would be:

At the end of the Attack Step, discard a Defense Token to make one additional attack against an enemy ship or squadron in close range.  When attacking a ship,  use the battery armament of your side arcs.

This would keep it powerful but with  negative costs (must lose the token) while still making it clear what the effect is (an additional attack), what the intent is (sacrifice defense to drastically improve offense),  and how to avoid it (stay at medium range or further). 

hmmm, it's a bit too inconvenient IMO. What you could simply say is "reduce the number of dice by half, rounded up"

 

This is more FFG like ;)

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So, you're breaking the rule limiting attacks to 2. That's fine, for Darth Vader's personal ship. But does it also let you break the rule about attacking out of the same hull zone? (If so, it's quite powerful. If not, it's a natural partner for Gunnery Teams.)

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