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Your Doji W looks like a "Doji Whisperer" to me.

There's also an "Ancestral Lands" province on the showcase under the Savvy Politician. On the same picture, the character above the Savvy Politician seems like a "? Scout"

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? Fashion may be a Crane clan card; since it's an attachment we can't see the symbol - but there is a little hint of blue border on the right side of the card.

Characters can apparently be in the conflict deck so we can't be certain all of them are Dynasty.

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Some speculating here:

From what my bad eyes can see, Savvy Pollitician is in (or around) 45, and Agasha Swordsmith seems to be in the 56(ish) position. If that is correct, it seems to me that the characters are placed by clan than cost, instead of clan and name (as they did with AGOT).

If that's so, the 3-fate Borderlands Defender should be in the mid-Crab list, going somewhere between 24 and 37 (14 chars seems good)? Meaning that Crane start at 38, have what, 4 1-fate, 4 2-fate and then end at 51, Dragon start at 52, have 4 1-fate and Agasha Swordsmith sits right at the 56 position. They'd end at 65, the Lion would start at 66 (with the Berserker being the last 1-fate at 69) end at 79, the Phoenix at 80 til 93, the scorpion between 94 and 107, leaving the unicorn at 108, with the Border Rider as the first 2-fate and ending at 121.

 

Between 7 and 23 are 17 slots. Maybe provinces, 1 for each clan and 10 unaligned

Edited by ThadiusZho
Math.... bah

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So, if we assume that it goes Strongholds -> Provinces -> Characters and within that alphabetical -> Neutral, the Phoenix Province would be number 12.

My eyes could imagine that actually lining up...

 

Also, 17 Provinces would be 1 per Clan plus 10.  If the theory that each Province matches an element, that would be two for each of the 5 rings in Neutral provinces.  I think you've done good there...

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2 hours ago, ThadiusZho said:

From what my bad eyes can see, Savvy Pollitician is in (or around) 45, and Agasha Swordsmith seems to be in the 56(ish) position. If that is correct, it seems to me that the characters are placed by clan than cost, instead of clan and name (as they did with AGOT).

They switched to faction/type/cost/uniqueness/name in AGoT (in the deluxe expansions).

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I went and did some more analysis of what we have available and think I have put together the sequencing for this Core set.

First, I'm assuming that each Clan has an equal number of cards of each type (Stronghold, Province, Dynasty, Conflict).  If that is wrong, then the following is less accurate, but still has some implications.

The un-named Phoenix holding has a number of 94, I think.  This is higher than the Matsu Berserker character, but Lower than the Border Rider character.  Doing a bit more playing with numbers, if there are 14 Dynasty cards per Clan, the Holding is at the end of the block of Phoenix cards.  From that, we can pretty much say that the Holdings come after Characters.  Further, we can infer that all of the kinds of Conflict cards are grouped together, within Clan.

So, the sequencing of cards in the box is most likely -

  • Type (Stronghold, Province, Dynasty, Conflict)
  • Clan (Crab, Crane, Dragon, Lion, Phoenix, Scorpion, Unicorn, Neutral)
  • Subtype (Character, Holding; Attachment, Event...)
  • Cost (Ascending)
  • Name (Alphabetical)

This actually has an interesting implication for the Conflict cards.  Rebuild (a Crab card) is number 136.  Blackmail (a Scorpion card) is number 149.  That means that there are 13 cards split between Crane, Dragon, Lion and Phoenix; possibly with some Crab or Scorpion at the beginning or end.  Really, this limits the number of Clan-specific Conflict cards to 3 per Clan.  Which means that there will be many neutral Conflict cards.  I think I'm okay with that.

Edited by Tonbo Karasu
Arithmetical failures

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What is your source for the numbers on Rebuild and Blackmail. It seems to be a really small number of conflicts cards per clan (considering each Clan should at least get a "Way of... " and a character on the conflict side.

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On 20.4.2017 at 11:09 AM, Tonbo Karasu said:

<snip>

I would suggest using the following column header in this order.

  • Set - Stays the same
  • No - Stays the same    
  • Name - Stays the same    
  • Clan - Stays the same    
  • Deck - with the following allowed values: None, Dynasty, Conflict
  • Type - with the following allowed values: Province, Stronghold, Personality, Holding, Attachment, Event.   
  • Subtype - with the following allowed values: Water, Void, Bushi, Shugenja, Weapon, Shrine, Library, whatever.

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1 hour ago, Ser Nakata said:

Blackmail looks like 189 to me.

Agree. Also, Breakthrough looks like 195 to me, and Vengeful Oathkeeper looks like it ends in a 0, which doesn't fit the prediction..

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38 minutes ago, Rinder5 said:

Agree. Also, Breakthrough looks like 195 to me, and Vengeful Oathkeeper looks like it ends in a 0, which doesn't fit the prediction..

The problem with Breakthrough being 195 is that it would tip the number of different cards to over 200.  With about 250 cards in the box (from AMA) that means there would be less than 50 cards for duplicates, all told.  Even if you make all of the duplicates neutral, that's not enough duplicates of neutral cards to make 2 complete decks.

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3 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

The problem with Breakthrough being 195 is that it would tip the number of different cards to over 200.  With about 250 cards in the box (from AMA) that means there would be less than 50 cards for duplicates, all told.  Even if you make all of the duplicates neutral, that's not enough duplicates of neutral cards to make 2 complete decks.

Even if we take into consideration the "influence" mechanic that will probably let you use some (3-10) out of faction cards? I am bad at math that's why I am asking... :)

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There's no influence for Dynsasty.  It needs 40 cards at least.  We're going with the assumption that all of the duplicates are neutral, to grant flexibility. If there are 14 Dynasty cards per clan, you'd need a total of 52 neutral cards to fill out the dynasty deck.  Then you get onto the Conflict side, where there would be ~10 cards per clan (to get Breakthrough to 195).  Even if you bring in 10 cards with Influence (using 1-point cards) that still leaves you needing 40 neutral cards.

There are already ~10 neutral Provinces.  Total - 102 neutral cards. 

Each clan gets 1 Stronghold, 1 Province, 14 Dynasty ~10 Conflict.  Total 26*7 = 182.

That's over 280 cards, which is enough more than 250 for me to doubt it.

 

On the other hand, if there's 3 Conflict cards per clan, you would probably want ~15 different neutral ones.  Which would come to 170 or thereabouts.  That leaves 80ish cards in the box to be duplicates.  Of the 170 different cards, the Stronghold, Provinces and Unique personalities won't have any duplicates.  If there's as few as 3 Unique Characters per Clan, that's 45 Unique cards.  Having 80 duplicate cards split between 125 possible seems reasonable, and probably falls into the description of 1 core to play, 2 cores to be competitive, 3 cores to have the full set. 

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26 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Even if you make all of the duplicates neutral, that's not enough duplicates of neutral cards to make 2 complete decks.

I'm of the camp that you won't be able to make a complete deck with one core set.

I posted the math in the thread 'two cores to be competitive', but basically AGoT2 only barely had enough cards to make 1 deck from the core set, and that game requires less cards per player. 

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