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5 minutes ago, Kiseki said:

It took a minute to catch that at first, but that's a great way to look at it.  

So T1 as a Scorpion player do you bid 5 like they suggest drawing lots of cards and potentially giving your opponent lots of honor? Knowing scorpion is designed to bid high, an opponent could bid low to give themselves a cushion that first turn, and then up their bids as they go to refill a spent hand. Or do they bid high also making the honor trade a wash and drawing a ton of cards that could help them offensively or defensively.... then the Scorpion player has to decide... do I play into their assumption of what I am designed to do and bid low hitting them hard for honor when they bid high trying to gain a card advantage and figure out another way to get access to my conflict cards (ie Ring of Earth) or do I bid high and keep things close if they also bid high so they don't make my job of dropping them to zero that much harder. All this pondering... just replaced the time it took to complete that one battle with 20 personalities.

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Initial Thoughts:

Regarding bidding-for-cards: yes, it will slow the game down. Yes, it changes the flavor. But I really like what Ryric said - it's a mechanical representation of being willing to be dishonorable to get things done. At least, that's the way I'll be looking at it.

On the ephemeral nature of your characters: Hey, the mortality rate in Rokugan has always been high. Having a time-limit on characters seems a little ham-fisted, but as long as it works mechanically, it should add a sense of urgency to play. A lot of characters not waiting around for their time to shine. A lot of characters preparing to die, hopefully in a blaze of glory.

The lack of Enlightenment: So, mechanically, everything is back to the honor-or-military style of play, much as it was in the early days of L5R1. Enlightenment existed, but it was very, very difficult to pull off. I don't have a problem with the removal of the Enlightenment victory mechanically, but I agree that it feels like a blow to the flavor of Rokugan, flavor that it seems they're trying to massage/shoehorn in with the different "elemental wins" when you take a province. Again, this is going to rely heavily on working itself out mechanically. On the one hand, it does feel like it's limiting a player's ability to construct creative decks. On the other hand, perhaps simplicity is a good thing in a new game. Either way, it leaves a slightly sour taste, but hopefully it'll work out.

The resetting of the storyline: Hoo boy. While this is the option I preferred, it was still a little hair-raising to see them pull the trigger on this. I've thought about it for at least seven minutes... and I like it! Let's see Shoju and Kachiko again! Let's embrace (metaphorically) the newly-gender-swapped Hoturi! Let's see what that young upstart Toturi does with his first command! And, most importantly, let's see where the story team takes us - will we be led by the hand into a new and different timeline? Or will we be forced to watch as the same tragedies and triumphs fall as they did before? I can't wait.

 

Finally, I'm hopeful. It's enough of a departure to feel like a brand-new game, and it's familiar enough to make me feel like I'm home. Let's see how it all works out!

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27 minutes ago, Shikaku said:

Oh good God... I just read Way of the Lion. LOL. T1 6 strength Matsu Beserker... oi...

The Jade Tetsubo adds +1 military - at cost, admittedly, but also persistent.

Even as someone who is prone to early conclusions, I think it's far too early to be freaking out about power levels.

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36 minutes ago, Ryric said:

I also notice that with a slight color shift we now have the spectrum - Red/Scorpion, Orange/Phoenix, Yellow/Lion, Green/Dragon, Blue/Crane, Indigo/Crab, Violet/Unicorn.

I see what you did there. *plays reading rainbow for no reason* 

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I wonder what the relative strengths of pure military/pure political vs a hybrid of the two will be? The hybrid will likely be worse at each, but be able to effectively attack twice as often and defend better against all threats.

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4 minutes ago, Ryoshun Higoka said:

Let's see Shoju and Kachiko again!

Who said Kachiko was female in this game?

nevermind... just remembered what I read in one of the posts about Shoju's impossibly beautiful wife... ah well..

Edited by Shikaku

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1 minute ago, Shikaku said:

Who said Kachiko was female in this game?

 

1 minute ago, Shikaku said:

Who said Kachiko was female in this game?

She's referred to as Shoju's "impossibly beautiful wife" in the write-up.

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So it looks like the little bamboo symbol in the bottom right of cards is a 'influence' pip like from netrunner? Stronghold cards also show how many 'bamboo' you get. 

Now this could either be a deckbuilding requirement for allowing splashes from other clans, or merely to limit how many 'powerful' cards you can include in your deck. 

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4 minutes ago, Shikaku said:

So T1 as a Scorpion player do you bid 5 like they suggest drawing lots of cards and potentially giving your opponent lots of honor? Knowing scorpion is designed to bid high, an opponent could bid low to give themselves a cushion that first turn, and then up their bids as they go to refill a spent hand. Or do they bid high also making the honor trade a wash and drawing a ton of cards that could help them offensively or defensively.... then the Scorpion player has to decide... do I play into their assumption of what I am designed to do and bid low hitting them hard for honor when they bid high trying to gain a card advantage and figure out another way to get access to my conflict cards (ie Ring of Earth) or do I bid high and keep things close if they also bid high so they don't make my job of dropping them to zero that much harder. All this pondering... just replaced the time it took to complete that one battle with 20 personalities.

My guess is that there will be a tug of war between board strength and hand strength with low honor clans leaning towards stronger hands and higher honor clans leaning towards stronger [printed] boards.  Of course that's just speculation.  The process shouldn't take all that long after the first couple times doing it.  I like the bluffing aspect personally.  You saw it occasionally in the CCG in battles, but couldn't take it to the bank very often.

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And provinces:

Quote

However, each province is now represented by its own individual card. Province cards offer different strengths and abilities, and choosing your provinces is an important part of deckbuilding

So maybe there will be a pool of neutral province cards, similar to the. Plot cards in GoT? And you choose 4 per deck? 

But how does it work,  why are they all face down in the preview images? 

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It also seems to me that since you declare rings when declaring a conflict, you could use that declaration to bluff your opponent. This could possibly cause them to over or under commit forces based on their perception of how valuable the extra win bonus is to you.

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4 minutes ago, Buhallin said:

The Jade Tetsubo adds +1 military - at cost, admittedly, but also persistent.

Even as someone who is prone to early conclusions, I think it's far too early to be freaking out about power levels.

1 Matsu Beserker + Stronghold Ability + Way of the Lion = 7F for 1 Fate. Now that is value, especially given that limited amount of characters we have seen and the max military skill has been 3 on most of which have been 2 cost or greater (Doomed Shugenja being the exception.. but you can put a fate on the Beserker to keep them around, and you can't do that with the DS) And did you see that other 1 drop weenie? Doesn't get discarded if the Lion player has 5 or more honor than his/her opponent... weenies that stick around...

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Just now, Ryric said:

It also seems to me that since you declare rings when declaring a conflict, you could use that declaration to bluff your opponent. This could possibly cause them to over or under commit forces based on their perception of how valuable the extra win bonus is to you.

Layers upon layers...

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2 minutes ago, jonboyjon1990 said:

And provinces:

So maybe there will be a pool of neutral province cards, similar to the. Plot cards in GoT? And you choose 4 per deck? 

But how does it work,  why are they all face down in the preview images? 

Maybe they require a fate cost to flip up and activate? The only province card in the article is a Phoenix one that draws you a card in the draw step, but the cards are fanned in such a way that where the cost could/should be is covered.

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5 minutes ago, the eigensheep said:

Anddddd then he's stolen by
l5c01_blackmail.png

nice... what will you be spending your other 4 Fate on? The 4 cost Yogo for a turn? Blackmail is super powerful, but I'm not sure how much Fate we are going to have to play with during conflict to make it that viable.

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Just now, GoblinGuide said:

 

Maybe they require a fate cost to flip up and activate? The only province card in the article is a Phoenix one that draws you a card in the draw step, but the cards are fanned in such a way that where the cost could/should be is covered.

 

I find it entertaining to imagine how much time the people at FFG spent fiddling with the exact layout of the promotional images, arguing over which details should be visible and which should be covered. :-)

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35 minutes ago, Smobey said:

I'm curious as to how people would see a Shadowlands faction working with the honour/dishonour mechanic. Surely it wouldn't make much sense for them to lose for hitting 0 honour, right? So they'd need some completely alternative rules for card draw. And even then, if they can't be dishonoured out, they negate a lot of decks that now stand no chance against them.

Which admittedly was a problem in the original card game as well, but it's one of the biggest design problems the game had, and a big reason as to why Spider Clan became what it is in the first place.

Personally I was always a more of a fan of shadowlands being big scarey monsters with low costs, but they lead your clan towards corruption. Granted for non-clan loyalists this is a nothing penalty other than the lose of honor possibly leading to dishonor lose caused by themselves. and nasty shadowlands cards with strong abilities but honor lose and/or corruption cots. of course these only matter if they(FFG) pay attention to them. Than I was Shadowlands as a faction in and of themselves

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I'm not sure that's a province card(the library); it might be a holding. I think from the preview that provinces start face down, but flip up when they are attacked to reveal things like province strength and special abilities. There might also be scouting cards that flip them face up.

My friend who plays Scorpion just loves stealing personalities. She will likely run the maximum amount of Blackmail. And then every time you go to do anything she'll be sitting there with her 3 fate available and just smile at you...

Edited by Ryric

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So, reading the fanned-out cards from the showcase (https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/legend-five-rings-showcase/) there are definitely factionless Provinces. Elemental Fury, in particular, seems to state that the Rings will be a bit more important than the press release intimated (Reaction: After this province is revealed - switch the contested ring with an unclaimed ring). Neat-o!

The Crab province allows them to "win" as a defender (very Crab-like), the Phoenix one allows the player to manipulate the game state, the Unicorn one sacrifices the province to blow up an attacker... very, very flavorful. The flavor seems intact... cautious optimism!

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6 minutes ago, Shikaku said:

nice... what will you be spending your other 4 Fate on? The 4 cost Yogo for a turn? Blackmail is super powerful, but I'm not sure how much Fate we are going to have to play with during conflict to make it that viable.

How much was the Berserker with attachment?

Just goofing around anyway. I suspect Scorpion players will have more actions in hand, generally, and sacrifice a bit on board state. So who knows how far 4 fate can go?

Edited by the eigensheep

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