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Which is better, Tie s/f Backdraft or Tie s/f Quick draw

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2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Backdraft.

And I'm just now experimenting with Backdraft with FCS and TS supporting Bombers - specifically Tomax and Deathfire.  It's a pretty nasty alpha strike.

I just wish they'd properly clarify how TS is supposed to work.

I took  TS Quickdraw/CS Tomax/VI Jonus to a Spring Kit (I had Chips and Concussion Missiles on QD) Ended up getting second place. The alpha strike is about as strong as it gets, you are almost always going to get 12 hits. Quickdraw's lock also allows the bombers to shoot their second missiles after the K-turn. Trouble is, that you often end up standing around for a half hour, as you can win very quickly. Absolutely shatters lists that rely on Biggs to survive the first encounter. 

I've fallen in love with Quickdraw though. Thanks to the new FAQ that buffed Targeting Synch, she's become a really cool combination of Ace/Support. 

Edited by Bonza

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3 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Mm, I was torn between Draw Their Fire QD and VI Backdraft.  DTF QD goes really nicely with the bombers, but Backdraft is a much stronger endgame proposition.

I need to play around with it a bit.

Yeah I'm in the same boat myself. I found that PS9 aces such as Fen were a real pain to deal with, which has led me to think about going with Adaptability on QD to go to 10 when I need it. I also enjoyed using Quickdraw's ability to nab target locks for the bombers on her revenge shot. 

But, I can see that a VI Backdraft would be a superior choice in a lot of situations, so I will have to play with both. Definitely A grade jank. 

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If you look at Backdraft on meta-wing it's interesting that people aren't using his slots very much, like he takes a pretty cheap EPT, an FCS, and then some sort of tech but that's it.  Backdraft seems to mostly just be 'he's pretty good, put him on the table.

Quickdraw has more specific builds and uses, from DTF to missile attacker, though.  There are more synergies being sought and more points invested in him.

Backdraft - http://meta-wing.com/pilots/204?
Quickdraw - http://meta-wing.com/pilots/198?

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13 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

If you look at Backdraft on meta-wing it's interesting that people aren't using his slots very much, like he takes a pretty cheap EPT, an FCS, and then some sort of tech but that's it.  Backdraft seems to mostly just be 'he's pretty good, put him on the table.

Quickdraw has more specific builds and uses, from DTF to missile attacker, though.  There are more synergies being sought and more points invested in him.

Backdraft - http://meta-wing.com/pilots/204?
Quickdraw - http://meta-wing.com/pilots/198?

A lot of people tend to ignore Quickdraw in the early game, too. This means she often carries those 35-40 points into the end game. Pretty sweet deal. 

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9 minutes ago, Bonza said:

A lot of people tend to ignore Quickdraw in the early game, too. This means she often carries those 35-40 points into the end game. Pretty sweet deal. 

Those people deserve to lose.  You kill her INSTANTLY.

BTW... is Quickdraw a her?

Edited by Stay On The Leader

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2 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Those people deserve to lose.  You kill her INSTANTLY.

BTW... is Quickdraw a her?

I remember reading it somewhere................... don't quote me. 

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Yaeh, QD you either ignore completely unless you're out of her arcs, or kill her in one round.  And if she has DTF you can't afford you ignore her completely, so you HAVE to kill her.  Or more to the point, you don't *need* to kill her outright, what you do need to do is strip her shields.  Once you've done that she's a LOT less threatening.

And she was referred to as a her in the release article IIRC.  Personally, I tend to refer to the named pilots whose gender we don't know for sure as her simply on principle.  WHen I remember, anyway.

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1 hour ago, Bonza said:

I took  TS Quickdraw/CS Tomax/VI Jonus to a Spring Kit (I had Chips and Concussion Missiles on QD) Ended up getting second place. The alpha strike is about as strong as it gets, you are almost always going to get 12 hits. Quickdraw's lock also allows the bombers to shoot their second missiles after the K-turn. Trouble is, that you often end up standing around for a half hour, as you can win very quickly. Absolutely shatters lists that rely on Biggs to survive the first encounter. 

I've fallen in love with Quickdraw though. Thanks to the new FAQ that buffed Targeting Synch, she's become a really cool combination of Ace/Support. 

Agreed, Missile s/fs are by far the best s/f

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Nice OP and threads, I'll need to get another TIE/SF to ply with the duo, and start flying a pair too.

The Empire is now looking for hope.

...all my friends who once wore the black helmet to tourneys now sport the white one with stripes or a towel; getting the SF really into the fray and showing them what it can do again may pull them back. 

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Why pick between QD and Backdraft when you can run both?  I'm currently 8-1 with:

Quickdraw - Expertise, FCS, Sensor Cluster, Spec Ops, LWF
Backdraft - Expertise, FCS, Sensor Cluster, Spec Ops, LWF
Pure Sabacc - Adaptability, Adaptive Ailerons, LWF

Sensor cluster + LWF makes them pretty tanky and is a big boost for survivability over missile/chips variants.  Expertise + FCS means they never need tokens for offense, so you can focus and use it to either convert eyeballs or sensor cluster, turning it into a pseudo-evade (can't give you more evades than you have dice, but unless you roll all natural evades, it's as good as or better than an evade token).  If you know you won't be getting shot, you can TL the first round of combat and have fully modified shots.  Makes for hard targeting choices too.  Most people seem to go for pure sabacc first due to the 4 attack dice, which leaves quickdraw and backdraft as the closers, and they're stronger finishers than PS.  On the other hand, if you leave PS he gets to throw 4 attack dice at you the whole time.  Shooting quickdraw first gives her extra attacks, so you NEED to strip all of her shields in one round or you're taking a lot of extra hits potentially.  And leaving backdraft as the closer instead, and backdraft is the scariest closer probably (once quickdraw shields are down).  Shooting backdraft first leaves pure sabacc throwing the extra die repeatedly and leaves quickdraw with full shields for when you have less ships to shoot her.

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2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

... How are you getting 12 hits from Conc missile QD?? wdf? 

Were you talking about my earlier post? That's 12 hits from the combined alpha strike of 2 concussion and 1 homing missile. With rerolls/focus/chips you have to be extremely unlucky not to get 12 hits. 

 

4 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

Why pick between QD and Backdraft when you can run both?  I'm currently 8-1 with:

Quickdraw - Expertise, FCS, Sensor Cluster, Spec Ops, LWF
Backdraft - Expertise, FCS, Sensor Cluster, Spec Ops, LWF
Pure Sabacc - Adaptability, Adaptive Ailerons, LWF

Looks super solid.

The only reason I go for the missile SF's is to counter lists that use Biggs, and I also prefer to try and have as much time in between games as possible, hence the alpha strike.

I made a variant of your list, but I had Targeting Synch on Quickdraw so that Sabacc could fire fully modified. I will try yours out though, looks fun. 

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Backdraft and Quickdraw are two completely different pilots. Backdraft actually prefers to fire out of the aux arc, as 2 + Crit > 3 dice and its laughably easy to skirt around a rock to get aux arc and not get shot at while its pretty hard w/o boost and barrelroll to get front arc and not get shot at.

Backdraft is superior imo by a longshot since he can operate on his own just fine and his flight style tends to keep him alive longer. I dont like quickdraw, at all. The only list ive ever made with Quickdraw i liked was a Swarmleader QD accompanied by 4 Blackcrack tie fighters...cmon..shoot me i dare you! Backdraft on the other hand i can slap in just about any list that i got 32-35pts free for and he does major work.

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9 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

Why pick between QD and Backdraft when you can run both?  I'm currently 8-1 with:

Quickdraw - Expertise, FCS, Sensor Cluster, Spec Ops, LWF
Backdraft - Expertise, FCS, Sensor Cluster, Spec Ops, LWF
Pure Sabacc - Adaptability, Adaptive Ailerons, LWF

I'be though about trying something similar but all First Order. Standard OL, QD and BD both have Expertise, FCS, and LWF. QD also has Pattern Analyzer. I've never found SC to be particularly useful on /sfs. I much prefer having the option to take actions on red maneuvers.

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6 minutes ago, defkhan1 said:

I'be though about trying something similar but all First Order. Standard OL, QD and BD both have Expertise, FCS, and LWF. QD also has Pattern Analyzer. I've never found SC to be particularly useful on /sfs. I much prefer having the option to take actions on red maneuvers.

I haven't found myself DOING red maneuvers very often so far with my list to need pattern analyzer very badly.  And sensor cluster has saved me a lot of damage.

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1 minute ago, VanderLegion said:

I haven't found myself DOING red maneuvers very often so far with my list to need pattern analyzer very badly.  And sensor cluster has saved me a lot of damage.

Interesting! Different playstyles I guess. I played a game the other day where I was testing SC in place of PA on QD. SC didn't trigger once but there were 3-4 times where PA would've helped. Usually when sloping or doing the occasional hard-1. Being able modify Focus results after slooping is really really nice. It's like you never shut off Expertise in the first place.

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2 hours ago, defkhan1 said:

Interesting! Different playstyles I guess. I played a game the other day where I was testing SC in place of PA on QD. SC didn't trigger once but there were 3-4 times where PA would've helped. Usually when sloping or doing the occasional hard-1. Being able modify Focus results after slooping is really really nice. It's like you never shut off Expertise in the first place.

I've found the /sf can be built a lot of different ways and that it can fly just fine regardless of what you put on it.  I have found that PA/PT do open up the dial but it's not necessary at all.

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9 hours ago, Bonza said:

 

I made a variant of your list, but I had Targeting Synch on Quickdraw so that Sabacc could fire fully modified. I will try yours out though, looks fun. 

On 4/18/2017 at 11:49 PM, Smudger13 said:

I'm surprised more people aren't using targeting synchroniser on these ships. It's given my TIE bombers a shot in the arm. Backdraft with adaptability paired with Tomax Bren hits like a truck. I like a TIE Striker or O Leader for the third ship. 

 

On 4/19/2017 at 3:07 AM, Goseki1 said:

Based on precedent set by other cards that have two effects separated by full stops (Collision Detector) then you don't need to be firing a secondary weapon to use the Targeting Synchronizer users lock.  They're separate statements on the card. 

Can confirm that Backdraft with TS and Tomax is pretty **** strong, though you are often spending Backdrafts action to TL, leaving her a bit weak on defense. 

Im glad people are finally talking about Target Synch and the S/F. My brother and I have been salivating over the combo ever since the FAQ. Quickdraw and Backdraft, both with FCS target synch, and Deathfire with Concussion missiles and Proximity mines. Hot ****, its brutal.

I want to try three Omegas all with FCS/Synch/LWF/Title and then two with snapshot (to setup FCS and give aces headaches) and one with score to settle. They all share each others locks and get full modded shots every round :P

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