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Which is better, Tie s/f Backdraft or Tie s/f Quick draw

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Which is better, Tie s/f Backdraft or Tie s/f Quick draw? and what is a good build.

Your opinion on a Back Draft Build.

Back Draft Tie fight s/f    (27)

Opportunist                         (4)

Sensor Jammer                    (4)

Sensor Cluster                     (2)

Special Ops Training          (0)

Lightweight Frame             (2)

Total                                     (29)

The question is can Opportunist and Sensor Jammer work together the way I'm think it going to work.

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Both are good. QuickDraw's ability can be used as a self damaging doubletapper, or as a deterrent to firing on him. Backdraft is more comfortable using both arcs and can be flown in a style that takes better advantage of the aux arc than I feel QuickDraw can.

The successful /sf lists I've seen usually go with FCS in the Systems slot. Hard to go against some free target locks for 2 points.

edit: I do agree with @Hawkstrike's post. If you can get both of them in a list, they can actually do some good face wrecking together.

Edited by SabineKey

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After playing them both a ton, I can pretty safely say QuickDraw, at least in this meta.  Both pilots still struggle on defense.  With so many 4+ red dice shots floating around they just don't last super long.  QuickDraw though can really bring the pain before she goes, if your opponent isn't already toast from her offense. 

My favorite builds for both are always Fire Control System, Title, and Lightweight Frame. The rest of the upgrades are to taste, but I usually choose crackshot or veteran instincts on backdraft and Expertise or Adaptibity on QuickDraw. Sort of depends on points.

Edited by FangedChicken

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Both are monstrous for people who aren't ready to deal with them but backdraft is more fun and really janky to fly, often approaching using sloops, Quickdraw can either land 3 shots or one from his ability. My brother loves to use quickdraw but he is more easy to focus down quickly, making his ability bad against lists with more than 3 ships. Also a guaranteed hit out the back makes Backdraft better at range 3. Lastly, the art is way cooler on backdraft's card.

 

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51 minutes ago, Hawkstrike said:

Why not both?

This list is doing well for me right now, including 3-0 at a small local tourney.

"Drawback"

"Quickdraw"
--Crack Shot
--Fire Control System
--Pattern Analyzer
--Special Ops Training

"Backdraft"
--Crack Shot
--Fire Control System
--Pattern Analyzer
--Special Ops Training

Carnor Jax
--Push the Limit
--Royal Guard TIE
--Hull Upgrade
--Autothrusters

Edited by fiesta0618

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Big QuickDraw fan. I tend to run a bit less conventional build.  I take debris for my obstacles... so even when stressed can lock, sorta focus, barrel roll

"Quickdraw" (35) - TIE/SF Fighter
Wired (1), Fire Control System (2), Primed Thrusters (1), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

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Backdraft for me ! His ability work always and a really good support for Vessery.

Quickdraw is good too but you can quickly lose all your shield and your ability (too bad no regen :P).

My Backdraft build :

"Backdraft" : 27 pts / Fire Control System : 2 pts / Special Ops Training : 0 pt / Veteran Instinct : 1 pt / Lightweight Frame : 2 pts

Total : 32 pts

 

 

 

 

Edited by Arkanta974

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I'm surprised more people aren't using targeting synchroniser on these ships. It's given my TIE bombers a shot in the arm. Backdraft with adaptability paired with Tomax Bren hits like a truck. I like a TIE Striker or O Leader for the third ship. 

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I've flown them both a fair bit and it's hard to say which one is better. They fill different roles, and they can also be built differently. To me, must-have upgrades are Fire Control System, Lightweight Frame and obviously the title. After that, it's either Pattern Analyzer (for more flexibility and being able to fly reds) or Sensor Cluster (for more defense), or Primed Thrusters when I have one point to spend. The EPT is less obvious - VI on Backdraft is good, Adaptability on both works well, Lone Wolf works surprisingly well on Backdraft (even combined with FCS). I've flown Expertise on Quickdraw and loved it, but the meta has shifted and there's more stress now, so that's out for the time being. Currently, I'm experimenting with A Score To Settle on Quickdraw, and after flying it twice I still have no clue whether it's good or bad :D

26 minutes ago, Madtheos said:

I've been playing a lot of the s/f's as of late. I -really- like both of the unique pilots. Think I'll be flying this at my next local to see how it does. Quickdraw, Backdraft, and OL in the same squad.

I've flown a similar squad. I'm currently using x7 Vessery instead of OL for more consistent offense without much reduced defense - I find the points in Vessery give me more bang for the buck than in upgrades for the /SFs. But YMMV, it's certainly a really fun squad.

Edited by haslo

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9 minutes ago, Smudger13 said:

I'm surprised more people aren't using targeting synchroniser on these ships. It's given my TIE bombers a shot in the arm. Backdraft with adaptability paired with Tomax Bren hits like a truck. I like a TIE Striker or O Leader for the third ship. 

I've actually experimented with exactly that combo in squad builders, but haven't gotten it to the table yet. Need to, one of these days. Thanks for reminding me :D

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1 minute ago, haslo said:

I've actually experimented with exactly that combo in squad builders, but haven't gotten it to the table yet. Need to, one of these days. Thanks for reminding me :D

I think it could be really good, and more importantly it's fun. A guy did well with it at the Lothal Open which gave me the idea, first time I'd seen a bomber doing that well for a long time. I'm taking it to the European Champs so we will see how it goes!

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1 hour ago, Smudger13 said:

I'm surprised more people aren't using targeting synchroniser on these ships.

Not just for bombers, but for reroll support.  Pairs well with duchess, etc. 

I'm going to spend a little time with variants of an SF with synchronizer and two shadow squadron phantoms and see if i can make a round or two of magic before certain doom. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, thebrettski said:

Not just for bombers, but for reroll support.  Pairs well with duchess, etc.

 

That's why I want it clarified - Quickdraw, Backdraft, and a third pocket ace which doesn't get to use its TLs much - OL, Sabacc, Duchess etc - where QD and BD both have FCS, Sync, Frame, is a really nice list, and I don't think unbalanced particularly, but it's not clear whether thew synchronisers are *supposed* to do that.

I don't see it as a problem that they should - you're essentially paying 3 points to get an extra action, which is the going rate, and a further two points to get it after attacking, which is good - but you're spending five points on a relatively fragile ship to do it.

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I just flew a list similar to the Lothal list at a store kit tourney this weekend and won all 4 games 100-0.

 

Quickdraw - Draw Their Fire, FCS, LWF, Title, Targeting Sychroniser

Tomax Bren - Crackshot, EM, Proton Torp, Chimps

Carnor Jax - PTL, Autothrusters

99pts

 

I didn't face a lot of meta lists but it was a ton of fun to fly and I managed to destroy Fenn in the first round of combat and remove a Warden before it got a shot. The Firepower is definitely intense. I like that you can use the synced target lock for Bren's Torp or to increase Jax's damage potential, and if you roll well you don't end up spending it at all. 

Its like Rebel Synergy but it doesn't fall apart when you lose part of the list because the individual pieces aren't terrible by themselves. 

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I'm pretty sure this has been clarified by the latest FAQ and they confirmed you can use TS for a primary TL reroll. It's not overpowered (in my view) as it comes at a cost and is range dependant. What it does allow is delightful combinations of ships that don't see a lot of tournament play, as others have noted. 

33 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Backdraft.

And I'm just now experimenting with Backdraft with FCS and TS supporting Bombers - specifically Tomax and Deathfire.  It's a pretty nasty alpha strike.

I just wish they'd properly clarify how TS is supposed to work.

Love the idea of Deathfire as ship three. Sabacc, OL, Duchess and Deathfire all have value there. 

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24 minutes ago, Smudger13 said:

I'm pretty sure this has been clarified by the latest FAQ and they confirmed you can use TS for a primary TL reroll. It's not overpowered (in my view) as it comes at a cost and is range dependant. What it does allow is delightful combinations of ships that don't see a lot of tournament play, as others have noted. 

Love the idea of Deathfire as ship three. Sabacc, OL, Duchess and Deathfire all have value there. 

It's been clarified that you can use it for reroll, but it's still unclear whether you can trigger it *at all* when you're not using the first clause to ignore an attack:TL requirement.

Personally, I think it should allow rerolls on primaries, and I don't think it's OP to do so, but it's certainly unclear.

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Based on precedent set by other cards that have two effects separated by full stops (Collision Detector) then you don't need to be firing a secondary weapon to use the Targeting Synchronizer users lock.  They're separate statements on the card. 

Can confirm that Backdraft with TS and Tomax is pretty **** strong, though you are often spending Backdrafts action to TL, leaving her a bit weak on defense. 

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1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

It's been clarified that you can use it for reroll, but it's still unclear whether you can trigger it *at all* when you're not using the first clause to ignore an attack:TL requirement.

Personally, I think it should allow rerolls on primaries, and I don't think it's OP to do so, but it's certainly unclear.

I have been told it has since been clarified further in a podcast by a designer somewhere. :-/  Carnor Jax can reroll his attack dice if Quickdraw has a target lock.

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3 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I have been told it has since been clarified further in a podcast by a designer somewhere. :-/  Carnor Jax can reroll his attack dice if Quickdraw has a target lock.

That's cool, that's how I hope it works.

But, it *really* needs to be in the FAQ at that point.  I hope they're planning another FAQ release before the C-ROC drops, or if not, then very soon after.

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