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Regeneration...

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With how the damage is allocated, and only the reanimates having regeneration, it feels like a more or less meaningless ability without an impact.

Often, enough damage is dealt to the fragile reanimates to remove entire trays and when a few spots are open, it still relies on the runes which doesn't pop up very often. And why doesn't archers also have regeneration??

 

I don't see how it would ever have an impact, other then VERY situational and rare occasions. 

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Yeah, that has been my experience as well, worsened by almost everything having two threat the majority of the time (in the starter box), plus it being difficult to get an armor bonus on them. Without an armor bonus, if something two threat attacked (everything in the starter), they should be removed in increments of two, meaning that 50% of the time a full tray will get wiped out, and an even damage of 2  on a blue red, red blue blue, red red, and white blue is much more common then a damage role of either 3 or 1.

Edited by Rattt

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Quite agree. It will have more impact in smaller battles (less damage done) and if you play medium sized units in stead of large ones. But if you lose 7 reanimates and recover 3, that's a serious gain.

they are likely to be the cheapest unit in the game and you can field enormous amounts of them cheaper than spearmen. They have to be weaker.

Rising your defense combined to regenerating can be really effective IMO.

Edited by druchii7

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Assuming the number removed was equally distributed (same chance as 0, 1, 2 or 3 open slots to regenerate when a round ends), the chances of number regenerated is:

0 slots: 100% 0 regenerated
1 slots: 12.5% 0 regenerated, 87.5% chance 1 regenerated 
2 slots: 12.5% 0 regenerated, 37.5% 1 regenerated, 50% 2 regenerated
3 slots: 12.5% 0 regenerated, 37.5% 1 regenerated, 37.5% 2 regenerated, 12.5% 3 regenerated 

For a total of 0.93375 average reanimates regenerated per turn.

 You shouldn't take damage the first turn (can't on 1, the distance between the closest deployment is greater then 5 range, and the only range Daqan has is at initiative 2, earliest move for Reanimates is 4, ignoring upgrades), if you somehow manage to take damage every turn after that you should regenerate 5.6025 reanimates over an average match (the final round is inconsequential, since points are scored as trays and regenerate happens at the end, so only 6 rounds of regenerate matter).

That is presuming you take damage every round between 2-7, which seems unrealistic, dropping it to a more likely good case of 4 reanimates in a game, presuming wound distribution is even  (I'm pretty sure 2 and 4 threat will be more common then 1, 3 and 5 threat, so it is more likely to end on 0 and 2 possible slots open to regenerate then 25%, imo, although I couldn't begin to guess how much right now).

If we cost 4 reanimates at their most expensive stage (16 pts for 2 at the lowest rank), then that is regenerating 8 points over the course of a game, on average, assuming ideal conditions for damage.
 

Edited by Rattt

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Yeah thwre are situations where it is important but they seem rare and overall it feels like a gimmick without use.

If archers had regenerate as well it would have been better.

or imagine if defender allocated wounds!

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Just first impressions but my group played 2 matches, for Undead it activated a total of zero times.  It felt absolutetly and utterly useless.  Meanwhile the Gollums were leveraging their threat increase every round in every match.  I don't want to rush to judgement but it felt outright broken and completetly unbalanced.  I actually didnt really get the point of the rune mechanic at all.  Why add a completetely random element to the game for which there is no defense, decesion or strategy for?  Its just this random gift... "here is some free ****" mechanic.  Of all the the things I loved about my first experiance, this stood out as something that just didn't belong at all.  I don't get the point of it.

Edited by BigKahuna

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I feel from the games I have played so far three runes have played a huge impact from turn to turn. Yes golems are strong when the runes favor them but they also are incredibly slow when the do not favor them. In regards to regenerate yeah it's usefulness is minor... it triggers sometimes but not often. though from a balance standpoint if it weren't as minor as it is the reanimates would cost a lot more tho still be balanced. 

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While I admit that it is typically a very useless and underpowered ability, last night we played a game and it saved the bacon of the reanimates numerous times and ultimately won the round for Waiqar. It's a very unreliable mechanic that doesn't work much of the time but when it does...man oh man does it!

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1 hour ago, BigKahuna said:

Just first impressions but my group played 2 matches, for Undead it activated a total of zero times.  It felt absolutetly and utterly useless.  Meanwhile the Gollums were leveraging their threat increase every round in every match.  I don't want to rush to judgement but it felt outright broken and completetly unbalanced.  I actually didnt really get the point of the rune mechanic at all.  Why add a completetely random element to the game for which there is no defense, decesion or strategy for?  Its just this random gift... "here is some free ****" mechanic.  Of all the the things I loved about my first experiance, this stood out as something that just didn't belong at all.  I don't get the point of it.

The rune mechanic is a great random addition to the game and while not utilised very much so far I can see it becoming a big deal later on.

The golems, for example, is a high risk business since they can surely be absolutely devastating in melee if the runes go their way, but the runes also dictate their maneuverability and worst case they will be slowly stumbling across the field while enemy ranged attacks take them apart. It will require strategy to utilise the randomness of the runes but if done proper its probably gonna be very powerful.

 

But regeneration is applied so seldom and can, at most, bring back 3 standard reanimates. Thats not what I would call a powerful effect that most often wont do anything noticable. Even if the runes DO "go my way" its hardly worth a mention other then those very few rare special occasions where they might save that last tray at the last round etc etc.

I guess its good that it isnt too powerful, I wish it would apply to archers as well though. Hmm....I dont have my stuff by me but can we put necromancers with archers?

 

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i had that mechanic come into play quite a lot in both my games.

My opponent called my charge with my rune golem so he buffed up his defense, as a result i only killed 2 guys instead of wiping their faces off the board with Brutal2 attacks. They came back due to 2 natural runes.... - next round i only had brutal1, killed 2 again due to bad roll, and 1 came back. He killed me before i could strike a third time and it was full strength by the time it countered something else.

Its a hell of a lot better ability than the spearmen. Inspiration tokens are pretty meh considering its so easy to get them as it is.

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I agree, its situational but honestly that seems like the point. If it was much more common it would be ridiculously op.  As is I've seen it used/happen twice to big effect in the 5 games I've seen. 

 

As as far as the randomness of it that's a similar effect as most wargamer that use dice modifiers to a large degree. I've played games against opponents who had a lot of "tough" models and some games they make so many tough rolls it's freaking obscene others they are meh and not effective.

 

Randomness is part of war!  

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43 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

i had that mechanic come into play quite a lot in both my games.

My opponent called my charge with my rune golem so he buffed up his defense, as a result i only killed 2 guys instead of wiping their faces off the board with Brutal2 attacks. They came back due to 2 natural runes.... - next round i only had brutal1, killed 2 again due to bad roll, and 1 came back. He killed me before i could strike a third time and it was full strength by the time it countered something else.

Its a hell of a lot better ability than the spearmen. Inspiration tokens are pretty meh considering its so easy to get them as it is.

I don't disagree with you. But your opponent called your move and acted to counter it in combination with some lucky runes and your unlucky rolling.

Thats not enough for me to believe regeneration had much to do with the outcome.

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One of the big reasons people aren't seeing regen as worthwhile right now is because most people are playing with a core or two. Most of thier units are two wide, which means they double damage. It's really easy to end up with two hits into 4 damage killing a full tray. Once you start to see 3 wide formations more often you will see very different results. 3x1hit=3  3x2hits=6  3x3hits=9. All of those will leave empty spots. Also, there will be other things in expansions that will change how you use the mechanic.

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1 minute ago, TallTonyB said:

One of the big reasons people aren't seeing regen as worthwhile right now is because most people are playing with a core or two. Most of thier units are two wide, which means they double damage. It's really easy to end up with two hits into 4 damage killing a full tray. Once you start to see 3 wide formations more often you will see very different results. 3x1hit=3  3x2hits=6  3x3hits=9. All of those will leave empty spots. Also, there will be other things in expansions that will change how you use the mechanic.

That is quite a smart observation right there! 

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Also there will continue to be mechanics/upgrades that can manipulate the runes in your favour, surely? 

There's also design space for units, heroes or upgrades that either give like a +1 or whatever to regenerate, or effects that simply say "regenerate X" 

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im kinda expecting there to be upgrades you put on your heroes that you can exhaust to have your army count as having a specific rune in addition to the 5 tokens.

Especially since those tokens are not that random. Theres always 1 stable rune, never 1 unstable rune, and the natural runes can be 0-3. I kinda wish they just gave us 4sided dice for the runes.

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I thought regeneration was underwhelming, too, during my learning games.

At 200 pts, I've come to love it, particularly since my Reanimates largely serve as an anti Rune Golem tarpit.

Reanimates can Rally and Defend at init 4. Golems fastest attack is at init 5, and their stun special is at 3. Basically, if they stun, Rally drops it. If they attack, Defend catches it. If two different units try doing both, Rally drops the stuns and Defend catches the blows.

With a 2x1 of archers dropping blight on the attackers, those regenerating reanimates can hold golems in place almost indefinitely.

Edited by Tvayumat

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Yeah and if they defend the Rune Golem pretty much cant hurt them (solo runegolem anyway) unless he has Brutal2 and rolls really really dang well. The absolute max damage a single runegolem can do is 12 (2 red die, potential 4 damage multiplied by 3 from brutal2). More likely of an attack he'll do half that since he has no innate rerolls. Not enough to clear off a tray so they just reanimate.

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I'm looking forward to the deathstar. Shield wall auto-procs since there currently aren't any units that have the ability to be that big. That final row is super grindy, with a 4/3 Carrion worm on the side, still fighting with 4 damage hits. Regen is more likely to go off with 2/1s as they need to do 8 damage to remove a tray

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1 hour ago, Vineheart01 said:

I kinda wish they just gave us 4sided dice for the runes.

That would be too confusing.

 

3 minutes ago, Corrinmana said:

I'm looking forward to the deathstar. Shield wall auto-procs since there currently aren't any units that have the ability to be that big.

Reanimates don't have an equipment slot, unfortunately.

Edited by Orcdruid
I can't spell

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