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syrilian

FFG please include these in the next FAQ

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Forgive me if this is in the wrong forum. I just wanted to post a suggestion for two rules clarifications in the FAQ. First, please include a clarification to x7 about what you mean by "overlapping". The second thing is please include a clarification that a target locked by Omega Leader does in fact prevent you from spending an evade token. I have had so many arguments about these two things...

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Its already very clear what spending an evade token does and what it counts as as well as omega leader its already in the faq

Quote
eader
If “Omega Leader” has an enemy ship locked,
and Emperor Palpatine is equipped to a
different enemy ship, the ship with Emperor
Palpatine equipped may modify one of the
locked ship’s dice.
If a ship locked by “Omega Leader” attacks
“Omega Leader” with a Heavy Laser Cannon, it
does not change its
results to
results.
Adding or subtracting dice (i.e. Jan Ors) and
canceling die results (i.e. Crack Shot) do not
count as modifying dice. However, added die
results (C-3P0, Advanced Targeting Computer,
Accuracy Corrector, etc.) do count as modifying dice and cannot be used.
If “Omega Leader” has an enemy ship locked, when that ship attacks or defends
against “Omega Leader,” that ship cannot resolve abilities that would modify
dice, even 0 dice, such as Keyan Farlander’s ability. Additionally, that ship
cannot resolve abilities that cause “Omega Leader” to reroll his dice (such as
R7 Astromech or Elusiveness), as these are abilities that modify dice.

bolded the section talking about added die results, which spending an evade token counts as.

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1 hour ago, Oberron said:

Its already very clear what spending an evade token does and what it counts as as well as omega leader its already in the faq

bolded the section talking about added die results, which spending an evade token counts as.

I know and I agree. The problem is is that not everyone thinks that spending an evade token is actually adding a die. They think that it is just adding a result.  Yes it is illogical and I didn't think that it needed to be cleared up but considering the number of people I have come across that question me on it, even when I point out the rules, is enough that it would be nice to spell it out specifically for evade tokens.

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Evade tokens do add a result, which is exactly what OL prohibits.

Per the rules when you add a reult you place a die showing that result to the rolled dice. That is different from adding a die to the pool before you roll.

If they don't understand this concept they should read the RRG again.

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9 hours ago, syrilian said:

I know and I agree. The problem is is that not everyone thinks that spending an evade token is actually adding a die. They think that it is just adding a result.  Yes it is illogical and I didn't think that it needed to be cleared up but considering the number of people I have come across that question me on it, even when I point out the rules, is enough that it would be nice to spell it out specifically for evade tokens.

So the wording on the card is not enough?  Using an evade token happens during dice mod steps, so it seems extremely clear.

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19 hours ago, syrilian said:

I know and I agree. The problem is is that not everyone thinks that spending an evade token is actually adding a die. They think that it is just adding a result.  Yes it is illogical and I didn't think that it needed to be cleared up but considering the number of people I have come across that question me on it, even when I point out the rules, is enough that it would be nice to spell it out specifically for evade tokens.

That's because you have it slightly wrong. Spending an evade token is adding a result. Originally you would place the token next to the die and that token would cancel a single hit or crit the same way as a die would. After much debate, FFG established that it was to be treated the same as a die and when you spent the token, you would place a die showing that result with the rest of your results, so that added result could be further manipulated by any other modifications.

But the rule still remains that it is an added result, and therefore a modification. Page 5 of the rulebook:

Quote

5. Modify Defense Dice: The attacker can resolve any card abilities that allow him to modify the defense dice. Then the defender can modify his defense dice in one or more of the following ways as many times as possible:
• Focus: The defender can spend a focus token to change all of his focus results to evade results.
• Evade: The defender can spend an evade token to add one evade result to his defense roll.

And page 10 under Evade:

Quote

EVADE
Ships with the evade icon in their action bar may perform the evade action. To perform the action, assign one evade token to the ship. When defending, the ship may spend that token to add one additional evade result to his defense roll. All unspent evade tokens are removed from ships during the End phase.

And then under Modifications on page 13, we have:

Quote

• Add: To add a die result, place an unused die displaying the result next to the rolled dice. A die added in this way is treated as a normal die for all purposes and can be modified and canceled.

So when spending an evade token, you are most definitely adding a result, but by using a die to show that result, that added result can then be later modified. It's actually now very logical and easier to understand that what it use to be. Hence the change from the original rulebook.

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The way I've been thinking about it to try and keep myself sane is this:

Adding a result is effectively adding a dice and modifying the result simultaneously. For example, if you have 2 dice and add a result from fearlessness against a LWF with 2 dice, the 3rd result from fearlessness does count as a dice. But it also counts as a modification, so omega leader would prevent it from being added. 

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Thanks for the paste references Parravon. I don't think I caught their rewording saying to actually place a die as a token is spent. It used to be a difference between modifying the actual dice and spending a token (like a currency) but now they're one in the same. Most of the builds seen around here are Scum or Rebs and our few Imp builds are mostly Defender based, but I guess my take away from this thread is ... kill Omega Leader on the first pass! Thanks for the post. ;)

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On 4/15/2017 at 6:16 PM, Parravon said:

That's because you have it slightly wrong. Spending an evade token is adding a result. Originally you would place the token next to the die and that token would cancel a single hit or crit the same way as a die would. After much debate, FFG established that it was to be treated the same as a die and when you spent the token, you would place a die showing that result with the rest of your results, so that added result could be further manipulated by any other modifications.

But the rule still remains that it is an added result, and therefore a modification. Page 5 of the rulebook:

And page 10 under Evade:

And then under Modifications on page 13, we have:

So when spending an evade token, you are most definitely adding a result, but by using a die to show that result, that added result can then be later modified. It's actually now very logical and easier to understand that what it use to be. Hence the change from the original rulebook.

Thanks for the clarification. Basically when someone argues the point, I just say an evade token now is like adding a blank die then modifies it to an evade result, which you can't do. I know it is not technically correct but it usually gets the point across.

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