Suggestion: Two fast, simple solutions to fix "fleeing flotillas"

[itzSteve 612]

11 minutes ago, pt106 said:

Smart people won't scatter but will evade a double and take the rest. Again, i'll reiterate, the discussion is not about killing flotillas (that's easy). Its about killing fleeing flotillas fast and without utilizing significant resources that would be end up being unavailable for the rest of the battle.

I suppose it comes down to what you consider significant resources. If you send a Acbar TRC90 after a fleeing flotilla, does it matter if it takes 3+ turns to kill it? It may or may not get back into the fight, but since it is a fleeing commander lifeboat, it is probably very close to the cost of the TRC90 you sent after it, with the added benefit of the opposing fleet losing its commander ability.

Why not just send 2-3 YT2400's after it. They would bring it down probably just as fast....

Edited April 14, 2017 by itzSteve

[Blail Blerg 7,585]

A reminder that squadrons are the best damage versus everything in the game.  Including flotillas.  =3. Especially flotillas.  Typically takes only 4 squadron attacks to wipe out a flotilla.  Especially if they are 2 dice bombers.  

Its too bad rogues aren't used much nowadays.   

[Darth Sanguis 6,324]

12 minutes ago, pt106 said:

Smart people won't scatter but will evade a double and take the rest. Again, i'll reiterate, the discussion is not about killing flotillas (that's easy). Its about killing fleeing flotillas fast and without utilizing significant resources that would be end up being unavailable for the rest of the battle.

Is it wrong to hunt flotillas with flotillas?

A 23 point Goz with Q7s (+6) and Jendon/Stele (+41) seems like a fairly efficient tool (70 points)

-At speed 5 Stele Gets where he needs to be and with a good deploy could probably intersect round 2
-At speed 3 Jendon should be able to keep stele within range 2-3 both allowing relay and Jendon's ability
-At speed 3 a well place goz should be able to reach range 5 by turn 2-3 to start Q7s
-Jendon/stele have always delivered 4 damage over 2 attacks so either lose the scatter or suffer 2 damage a round for 2 rounds
-Gozanti can be anywhere to relay so it doesn't have to get back to action, therefore not wasted points
-Jendon/Stele speeds could allow them to rejoin fight for last 2 rounds (depending on flow of battle)

70 points for flot hunter/and 2 aces

Not terrible

 

[Blail Blerg 7,585]

never mind

Edited April 14, 2017 by Blail Blerg

[PT106 2,316]

20 minutes ago, itzSteve said:

If you send a Acbar TRC90 after a fleeing flotilla, does it matter if it takes 3+ turns to kill it?

Yes. Because it is not a commander lifeboat but a relayer that also provides activation padding. By the time you kill it, its job is already mostly done and you only get 20-30 points for the kill.

[shmitty 3,315]

Relay flotillas aren't really worth the bother to kill.  The activation advantage dissipates quickly.  The investment in Relay is generally similar to making a couple of squadrons into Rogues.  I specifically gun for Relay squadrons and haven't found them any harder to kill than any other squadron.  Plenty of HP, but limited to no defense tokens.  But, expensive enough to be worth the effort to kill.  Or just have a strong anti-squadron plan and make Relay irrelevant as there are no squadrons to command.

That's all pretty general as how I would choose to approach that strategy is heavily based on what I am playing and the assets I have at my disposal.  It is difficult to table people, so I try to have a plan for harvesting squad points.  It is pretty effective against Relay shenanigans.

[Darth Sanguis 6,324]

5 minutes ago, shmitty said:

Relay flotillas aren't really worth the bother to kill.  The activation advantage dissipates quickly.  The investment in Relay is generally similar to making a couple of squadrons into Rogues.  I specifically gun for Relay squadrons and haven't found them any harder to kill than any other squadron.  Plenty of HP, but limited to no defense tokens.  But, expensive enough to be worth the effort to kill.  Or just have a strong anti-squadron plan and make Relay irrelevant as there are no squadrons to command.

That's all pretty general as how I would choose to approach that strategy is heavily based on what I am playing and the assets I have at my disposal.  It is difficult to table people, so I try to have a plan for harvesting squad points.  It is pretty effective against Relay shenanigans.

I would imagine doubly so against fleets center around relay? If they can't do the relay, all those activations are pretty much just dead weight then right?

[shmitty 3,315]

17 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I would imagine doubly so against fleets center around relay? If they can't do the relay, all those activations are pretty much just dead weight then right?

More or less.  The runaway flotilla using squad commands has 3 points in the chain where it can be attacked.  The Flotilla, the Relay Squadron, or the attacking squadrons.  The flotilla itself is really the worst choice to attack.  It is worth few points and scatter makes it a non-trivial task to kill.  The extra activation is an advantage, but that can be mitigated and loses power as the game unfolds.

Relay squadrons themselves are high value targets and well worth killing.  I go after them more for the Strategic ability than Relay, but the result is the same.  However, their cost-to-combat-power ratio is pretty low.  They can be ignored too if Strategic isn't important to the Objective.

Which leaves just murdering the heck out of the squads.  You should probably have a plan for this already.  There are many effective strategies for squad killing that fit a variety of fleet builds.  Who cares if there is an 18 point ship in the corner giving squad commands if most of the squads are kaput.

This strategy does work well as a counter to a kill the carriers and ignore the squadrons approach.

I have found it becoming more difficult to table opponents as the game has matured.  So, that isn't a major goal of mine.  I do still score plenty of 10-1 or 9-2 results though.  I have a plan for killing high value ships, harvesting squadrons, and scoring from objectives.  I try to do all 3.  If my opponent doesn't have squads, then mine get re-purposed to ship killing.

[Blail Blerg 7,585]

1 hour ago, shmitty said:

More or less.  The runaway flotilla using squad commands has 3 points in the chain where it can be attacked.  The Flotilla, the Relay Squadron, or the attacking squadrons.  The flotilla itself is really the worst choice to attack.  It is worth few points and scatter makes it a non-trivial task to kill.  The extra activation is an advantage, but that can be mitigated and loses power as the game unfolds.

Relay squadrons themselves are high value targets and well worth killing.  I go after them more for the Strategic ability than Relay, but the result is the same.  However, their cost-to-combat-power ratio is pretty low.  They can be ignored too if Strategic isn't important to the Objective.

Which leaves just murdering the heck out of the squads.  You should probably have a plan for this already.  There are many effective strategies for squad killing that fit a variety of fleet builds.  Who cares if there is an 18 point ship in the corner giving squad commands if most of the squads are kaput.

This strategy does work well as a counter to a kill the carriers and ignore the squadrons approach.

I have found it becoming more difficult to table opponents as the game has matured.  So, that isn't a major goal of mine.  I do still score plenty of 10-1 or 9-2 results though.  I have a plan for killing high value ships, harvesting squadrons, and scoring from objectives.  I try to do all 3.  If my opponent doesn't have squads, then mine get re-purposed to ship killing.

Can you show us a list such as this that would be good vs mass squadrons?  I tend to find going Relay and the current requires a non-trivial amount of squadrons for anti-squadron effort also.  

And yes, I agree, harvesting squadrons should be a big part of your plan nowadays.  

[shmitty 3,315]

7 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Can you show us a list such as this that would be good vs mass squadrons?  I tend to find going Relay and the current requires a non-trivial amount of squadrons for anti-squadron effort also.  

And yes, I agree, harvesting squadrons should be a big part of your plan nowadays.  

I'll see what I can find.  For now I can tell you my general squadron plan.

I usually bring about 80 points of squads.  I find it's a total I enjoy using and can be effective for me.

Then, even if I am up against 130+ points, I try to outnumber my opponent locally.  Either by engaging all of my squads against a portion of theirs (which leaves my ships to tank the others) or by forcing the engagement to be near my ships in over-lapping flak zones and using the ships to overwhelm the squads.  The first strategy works better with Imps, the second with Rebels, but both can do either depending on the match-up.

Then I typically don't care what I kill, I just start killing squads as fast as I can and go for a snow-ball effect.  The more I kill the faster they die and the less they fight back.

Again, it's pretty general but that framework works for me with and against a variety of fleets.